Talk to me about these suspension/steering mods

[Quadcammer]

Ok, first off, yes I know I should not mod the car further cause I don't like it. However, I can't for the life of me find a car that I love in an affordable price range, so in an attempt to get more into open track activities, I've come up with the following mods to try to increase both front end grip, turn in, and decrease some of that nasty push.

Urethane rack bushings
Urethane swaybar endlinks
urethane swaybar bushings
tokico D-Spec struts (already have SA Konis out back)
SS brake lines up front
MM Solid steering shaft
CG Lock seatbelt lock


I currently run H&R SS springs with an otherwise stock front suspension. Im fairly happy with the level of grip, but the ride is a bit bouncy (stock struts are toast), and well, the car understeers at the limit. The main problem is that the steering is so numb and has way to much play.

I think these mods should tighten up the steering response, the struts will allow me to hopefully dial out some of the understeer, and the urethane bushings should reduce some of the mushiness.

Thoughts?

 

[K2AHollywood]

I am please with both the Tokicos and the SS lines. You can go wrong with that. I believe Flaming river has performance steering set up that is supposed to be more accurated and I want to say 1.5 lock to lock - should provide you with more responsive/precise steering. What tires are you running?

 

[BreBar21]

1. Go with center drilled aluminum rack bushings.
2. Replace the endlinks with the shorter length set since you're lowered.
3. Only replace the swaybar bushings if they need it. I replaced mine and the stockers were fine.

 

[Quadcammer]

any reason why you prefer aluminum? They seem to be more of a pain to install on a stock kmember.
2. yup, planned on it
3. they are pretty cheap, so a new set won't kill me.

 

[Quadcammer]

I am please with both the Tokicos and the SS lines. You can go wrong with that. I believe Flaming river has performance steering set up that is supposed to be more accurated and I want to say 1.5 lock to lock - should provide you with more responsive/precise steering. What tires are you running?

Im not looking for a whole new rack, as I'd like to keep the price down.

Im running 275/40/17 Nitto 555R's up front and I think they are fantastic.

 

[BreBar21]

any reason why you prefer aluminum? They seem to be more of a pain to install on a stock kmember.
2. yup, planned on it
3. they are pretty cheap, so a new set won't kill me.

Same as using aluminum in any other suspension component...MM says it better than I can...

Exchanging the stock rubber steering rack bushings for solid aluminum bushings has long been known to be a fundamental step towards improved steering response. Rubber bushings, and to a lesser extent urethane bushings, allow the rack to move sideways, relative to the K-member, before any steering input begins to move the tires. This results in slower steering response than is desired for a performance car. Solidly mounting the rack with aluminum bushings eliminates rack movement relative to the K-member, and improves steering response. Along with improved turn-in, the car will maintain a more precise line through a corner, and require fewer steering corrections.

It's been years since I put them on mine, but I don't think it's a huge deal to install. You do have a cut the sleeves that go through the rack into the K, but it's still a pretty simple procedure.

 

[olgreydog7]

Care to list other suspension mods for those of us that havn't been on here for 35 years?

I recently did the Steeda billet swaybar brackets, poly swaybar bushings, and poly endlinks for lowered cars. I also did the rear sway bar bushings and the IRS subframe bushings and the car turns in alot better than it did before. I can practically move sideways at speed, the car just sticks to the ground and tracks. The al rack bushings aren't that big a deal to install, just like Brebar said, you have to cut the sleeves to fit. I didn't install mine because I started thinking I want a k member though.

 

[K2AHollywood]

Im not looking for a whole new rack, as I'd like to keep the price down.

Im running 275/40/17 Nitto 555R's up front and I think they are fantastic.

thats too bad, the nex rack would also save you 30 pounds, which would help a great deal but do understand the cost consideration. You on a stock K member still too?

 

[Quadcammer]

suspension mods are pretty non-existant.

front:
H&R ss springs

Rear:
H&R ss springs
koni yellow SA
global west LCAs


still on the stock kmember and not really interested in changing that out.

 

[olgreydog7]

Get subframes and a rear shock tower brace. It makes a world of difference. I can jack up one side of my car and both rear tires will raise off the ground almost evenly. It really helps turn in cause all those suspension pieces work together rather than fight each other.

 

[Quadcammer]

oh, forgot to mention that I already have mm full length subs.

rear tower brace is not in the cards.

 

[brkntrxn]

Oliver,

You probably won't like my suggestions, but I'll list them anyway:

1. Drive it as is until you are absolutely positive you cannot make the car go any faster without adding parts.
2. Get a good driver drive your car to see if it is at its mechanical limit
3. If yes, add parts. If no, keep driving it until you get to the car's limit.

So, now that I stated that... here are a couple of questions/points to ponder:

1. Are you running wider tires in the rear? You stated 275s on the front, what do you have on the rear? The Mustang is a plowing pig from the factory as we all know (after all, it is a V6 car and understeer is safer than oversteer), with wider tires on the rear it just accentuates the bad setup. Go to identical size tires all the way around and that will allow more movement out of the rear -- effectively helping out with the understeering issue. The key to getting through a turn is not always front grip but rotation out of the car. You can get rotation if you can get the rear to move around. With your power level, you can also achieve this by learning how to modulate the go-fast pedal in the middle of a turn to induce rotation (within reason).

2. Replace the front struts you said are worn out. I have Bilstein struts and shocks with H&R Race Springs. They work just fine for right now, my next step will be coil-overs on all four corners.

3. What are your alignment specs? You should be running a couple of degrees of negative camber, some toe, etc. on the front and rear. Do you have castor/camber plates? If not, get a set from MM or someone.

4. As long as you have that extra 80-100lbs from the Vortech you are going to be nose heavy. Off-set that with a lighter wheel and tire package, a lightweigh K-member and A-arm setup (Agent 47 has good feedback), carbon fiber fenders, relocated battery, etc. Removing the blower has made such a huge difference in how my car feels and rotates. If you want to keep the power, you need to do other things to remove front weight.

5. That CG-Lock will be the best $35 you have spent all year long.

6. Have you bought a roll-bar yet? The Autopower I put in our vert works well and is a bolt-in design if you want to remove it later.


Honestly though, just drive the car. As long as you have all that power, it is going to take you a long time to get consistent with the car (I am speaking from my experience). Replace the struts, get MM plates, get an alignment and go to 275s all the way around. Then just drive the car and have fun learning!!!


Kevin

 

[brkntrxn]

Oh, one more thing. Post this same question over on the track forum. You will probably get a bit more insight from the guys that run on the road courses a LOT more than most of the street drivers on here.

 

[OzzDOA]

Get adjustable rear end-links as well, people often over-look their rear suspension balance when trying to fix understeer up front. The sway bars in the 99-01's are actually pretty good, the only upgrade I know of is from Eibach and they are much, much stiffer than stock. There is a ton of stuff you could do, it just depends on what you are wanting to do with the car. Truth be told probably the best mod for the money is a good set of DOT R compound tires. Falken Azenis 615's and Dunlop Direzza Star Specs are very good, Nitto has come out with a "road" version of the NT555R but I have not heard anything on that either way.

 

[Quadcammer]

I have a solid rear, so no adjusting the end links.

thanks for the help guys.

 

[cobraracer46]

1. Are you running wider tires in the rear? You stated 275s on the front, what do you have on the rear? The Mustang is a plowing pig from the factory as we all know (after all, it is a V6 car and understeer is safer than oversteer), with wider tires on the rear it just accentuates the bad setup. Go to identical size tires all the way around and that will allow more movement out of the rear -- effectively helping out with the understeering issue. The key to getting through a turn is not always front grip but rotation out of the car. You can get rotation if you can get the rear to move around. With your power level, you can also achieve this by learning how to modulate the go-fast pedal in the middle of a turn to induce rotation (within reason).

6. Have you bought a roll-bar yet? The Autopower I put in our vert works well and is a bolt-in design if you want to remove it later.


and go to 275s all the way around. Then just drive the car and have fun learning!!!

I disagree with your tire size recommendations, because I feel that a heavy mustang needs MORE tire, not less and yes, a high powered car with narrow 275 tires in the rear will defiantly rotate more in the corners, but the problem is that you robbed Paul to Pay Peter and now you have a car that is fun to drive with no grip! 315's would be the smallest size tire I would run in the rear. An sort long arm front suspension will allow 315' size tires in the front.


Furthermore, the autopower roll bar everybody likes to use is not a good product, because it takes up too much passenger space and the main hoop bolts in to the paper thin floor pan instead of welding in to the much stronger bulkheads.

 

[olgreydog7]

I disagree with your tire size recommendations, because I feel that a heavy mustang needs MORE tire, not less and yes, a high powered car with narrow 275 tires in the rear will defiantly rotate more in the corners, but the problem is that you robbed Paul to Pay Peter and now you have a car that is fun to drive with no grip! 315's would be the smallest size tire I would run in the rear. An sort long arm front suspension will allow 315' size tires in the front.


Furthermore, the autopower roll bar everybody likes to use is not a good product, because it takes up too much passenger space and the main hoop bolts in to the paper thin floor pan instead of welding in to the much stronger bulkheads.

I disagree with you. You need major mods to pull off 315s in the front. Find me a track car that runs wider tires in the front. Not a drag car. 275's are plenty wide, I highly doubt you drive well enough to need more than that. Plus, I don't know who you are putting in the back seat, but they must be short. I don't know if you have tried to bend the floorpans, but they are not paper thin. Doesn't the bar come with reinforcing backing plates? And, just because you can bolt it in, doesn't mean you can't weld it in.

 

[cobraracer46]

I disagree with you. You need major mods to pull off 315s in the front. Find me a track car that runs wider tires in the front. Not a drag car. 275's are plenty wide, I highly doubt you drive well enough to need more than that. Plus, I don't know who you are putting in the back seat, but they must be short. I don't know if you have tried to bend the floorpans, but they are not paper thin. Doesn't the bar come with reinforcing backing plates? And, just because you can bolt it in, doesn't mean you can't weld it in.

My current set up is 275's in the front and 315's in the rear. 275's would be the minimum for the front with the 315's being the optomum size if the budget allows it. In the rear, a 275 wide tire on a heavy high powerd car is way too narrow of a tire unless it desirable to have a loose and tail happy car.

As for the floor pan, I have cut through it like its paper and even autopower admits that their roll bar mounts to "non critical" areas. If you look at any professionally installed roll bar or cage on a production based unibody race car, take a look at where the attachment points are. Hint: its not the floor pan sheet metal.

 

[brkntrxn]

Cobraracer46 -- Yes, the Griggs bar is MUCH better than the Autopower, I will give you that. The Griggs version in your car connects to the bulkhead whereas the Autopower goes to the floor pan; therefore the Griggs is much better structurally. However, I am not going to recommend the Griggs over the Autopower just because of that. Cost plays an important part here, so does the amount of work. Yeah, I know, there is no cost on someone's life... just leave that one alone.

I can also agree with 275/315 setup on a high horsepower car... only if that person wants to spend the money on another set of rims. However, if someone is complaining that their big rear tired car won't turn, then they need to decrease the size of the rear tire to reduce rear grip.

On another note, I do invite you to come to the track with me. VIR, CMP, Road Atlanta, Reobling, Kentucky? I'd love to see your road course skills so that I can better understand your recommendations and opinions.

 

[olgreydog7]

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