Supreme Court to rule on gun ownership.

[Rochard]

Guess what? That's just too damn bad. Freedom doesn't just mean freedom for you. And it does come with a price. Being free doesn't mean free from risk and that includes the good and the bad. No one said you had to like freedom but that's not my problem.

I fear people like you who think nothing of denying me my rights so you can feel better. Another useful idiot who thinks he knows best.

But your rights to own guns - in very simple terms - puts others at risk. All of these guns used in crimes most likely came from legal sources.

What about that woman who bought her kid all of those guns because "he wanted them"? This fourteen year old kid nearly wiped out his high school class with legally purchased weapons.

Your right. Being free comes with risks. The risk here is that one of your legally purchased guns will end up in the hands of a criminal and will be used to hurt somone innocent.

 

[DocHolliday01]

But your rights to own guns - in very simple terms - puts others at risk. All of these guns used in crimes most likely came from legal sources.

What about that woman who bought her kid all of those guns because "he wanted them"? This fourteen year old kid nearly wiped out his high school class with legally purchased weapons.

Your right. Being free comes with risks. The risk here is that one of your legally purchased guns will end up in the hands of a criminal and will be used to hurt somone innocent.

Holy shit, the more you post the less you make sense. since you like to qoute things so much heres one for ya.

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."

Like i said earlier i dont really give a rats ass about you or your hypocrasy but for you to sit here and say its ok for you to own a gun but not someone you see on the street is ****in rediculous. you are a posterchild for liberlaism, its ok for you to own something or do something but not for anyone else to do the same, typical far left.

Yourself and people like you are whats wrong with this country. Your parents must be proud

 

[t0ad]

Your wrong.

The Constitution was written hundreds of years ago. It was written in a time when you had to carry a gun for protection because there was no law enforcement, and in the event we were invaded by another country it would take months for an armed miltia to respond. The framers of the Constitution had no idea we would become a nation with millions of people.

I'm a former United States Marine. I've fired every gun under the sun from handguns, rifles, shotguns, sub machine guns, and machine guns so big I couldn't carry them.

Someone explain to me why we need guns?

Are you worried about someone breaking into your house? Then perhaps you need to move or get a very large dog. I keep my doors locked, my home alarm on, and I own a dog.

Do you really mean to tell me that if someone breaks into your house your going to suddenly wake up, pull a handgun out of the nightstand, and kill someone? Chances are by the time you wake up it's already too late. And if you tell me that thirty seconds after you wake at 3am in the morning your perfectly alert and able to handle a gun - I'll tell you your high.

Then comes my favorite part.... You shoot someone who breaks into your house, there's a good chance your going to jail. And if you don't - the intruders family will sue you.

Hunting is the only reason anyone should own a gun. And you don't go hunting with handguns.

:bs: and HOGWASH. I am ashamed a former Marine would think this way. I question your legitmacy sir.

 

[t0ad]

I think you (and everyone else) misread me. I have no problems with me having a gun in my house, or my ability to use it. I would have no problems shooting someone dead if I felt my life was in danger.

What worries me is the guy who lived above me in an apartment with his shotgun that one night. Or the guy across the street who just beat the crap out of his wife - what if he had a gun?

I don't fear an intruder invading my house at 3am. I fear the guy across the street who had legally purchased a gun. I fear him getting pissed in the middle of the night and going on a rampage.

Seek counselling, that's what your kind does... in your case it may help. :bash:

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

if someone wants to kill, will they still kill regardeless of weapon on hand? does putting a baseball bat in someones hands any safer than a gun? of course your gonna post some big schpeil "well ill use my super marine fighting tactics and take the bat away from him!" but you said it your self, you cant always be prepared for something like this. say your neighbor goes on that rampage your talking about(been playing a little too much grand theft auto?) and decides to kill you in the middle of the night. so he sneaks in your house with a baseball bat and whacks you upside the head. 1 hit, your dead, and he didnt have a gun. your arguements are useless. if someone really wants to kill, then they will go about it by any means neccesary, they wont just say "aawww, i dont have a gun. guess im not gonna go kill today".

 

[427Windsorman]

It seems like our rights are being taken away a little at a time.

Only if you allow it.

No, we shouldn't just drop the Constitution. It's a document of rules - guidelines - that worked for that time frame. Fast forward 200 years and some aspects of this are no longer valid.

If we go with the "right to bear arms" then all of us should have this right without restriction. Sounds good to me because I want every 18 year old armed with a handgun. I want every idiot driver who is more concerned about talking on their cell phone and less concerned about the green light they are now sitting at to have a hand gun.

Better yet, I want every drunk driver to have a handgun in their car so they can shoot out street lights whenever they have the urge.

I just don't see the reason to have handguns. Or assault rifles.

And when I see a twenty-one year old kid driving around with an arsenal of guns in the trunk of his subcompact car.... Well, that scares the day lights out of me.

The Constitution is a restriction on government, not people. It sets the framework, and boundaries of government. In short, it is meant to keep the government off the backs of the people.

I think there is a fundamental fact being overlooked by many people, from both sides of this issue. The government is not the source of rights, nor is the constitution. Neither can grant rights, nor can either restrict them. Personally, I think the people of this nation have become ignorant concerning the nature of the constitution. I don't think the Constitution is studied almost anywhere, including law schools. In law schools, what they study is what the court said about the Constitution. They study the opinions. They don't study the Constitution itself.

The Bill of Rights was not meant to be a list of protected rights, it is just a short example of those rights. It was understood that the list was not all inclusive. Of course, they did debate the creation of the Bill of Rights because there was a fear that it would be viewed as a list of rights that were protected, and that anything else was fair game. It appears those fears were well founded.

It does not matter whether you feel I should own a handgun, or not. You can choose to own, or not own, whatever you like, but you do not have any say in my freedom to choose.

The founders of this nation believed that everyone had the right to live their life in accordance with their personal principles and beliefs, as long as it did not cause harm to another person without that persons consent, and as long as it did not infringe on the rights of another. If injury was caused to another person (or their property), or if another persons rights were infringed upon, then the government could get involved, as long as the injured party requested that involvement. Short of that, government has no authority to get involved.

Ownership of a gun by your neighbor has no impact on you, or your rights.

"But if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights" -Alexander Hamilton (1757-1804)

"You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe." -John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions." -Samuel Adams (1722-1803), was known as the "Father of the American Revolution.

"The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedom." -Justice William O. Douglas (1898-1980), U. S. Supreme Court Justice

"The Constitution is not neutral. It was designed to take the government off the backs of people." -Justice William O. Douglas (1898-1980), U. S. Supreme Court Justice

"Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" -Patrick Henry
(1736-1799)

"A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement." -Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

"On every question of construction [of the Constitution] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or intended against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

"Outside of the Constitution we have no legal authority more than private citizens, and within it we have only so much as that instrument gives us. This broad principle limits all our functions and applies to all subjects." -Andrew Johnson (1808-1875), 17th US President

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee (1732-1794) Founding Father

"Whereas civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -Tench Coxe (1755-1824) American political economist

"The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." -Tench Coxe (1755-1824) American political economist

"No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." -Zachariah Johnson

"Americans need never fear their government because of the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation." -James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President

"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason (1725-1792), drafted the Virgina Declaration of Rights, ally of James Madison and George Washington

"Who are the militia, if they be not the people of this country...? I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers." -George Mason (1725-1792), drafted the Virgina Declaration of Rights, ally of James Madison and George Washington

"Of the liberty of conscience in matters of religious faith, of speech and of the press; of the trial by jury of the vicinage in civil and criminal cases; of the benefit of the writ of habeas corpus; of the right to keep and bear arms.... If these rights are well defined, and secured against encroachment, it is impossible that government should ever degenerate into tyranny." -James Monroe (1758-1831), 5th US President

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon, and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes; we need them every hour." -George Washington (1732-1799) Founding Father, 1st US President, 'Father of the Country'

 

[dougwg]

How dare you!?!

But your rights to own guns - in very simple terms - puts others at risk.

Only the bad guys are at risk, everyone else around me, are safer for it.

All of these guns used in crimes most likely came from legal sources.

Wow, that was brilliant. Originally, yes. Damn near ALL of them were legal when produced, until some low life scum stole them and sold them to criminals. Or the person that purchased them, apparently legally, then turned felon when resold or given to someone that was restricted in ownership of said firearm.

What about that woman who bought her kid all of those guns because "he wanted them"?

She should be held accountable as an individual. My rights shall not be infringed because of someone else's illegal act.

This fourteen year old kid nearly wiped out his high school class with legally purchased weapons.

I guess those that were wiped out should have had protection. Teachers that are trained in the use of firearms and the ability to carry would have saved those being attacked.

Your right. Being free comes with risks.

Read it, know it, live it. :rockon:

The risk here is that one of your legally purchased guns will end up in the hands of a criminal and will be used to hurt somone innocent.

If you can't deal with inhearent risk [which life is FULL of] from driving, from riding, eating food that is fatty or tanted like in the news lately, to playing with toys from China with lead in them, hell even SEX oke:, then you need shrivel up and go away.:rollseyes

Life is all about risk

 

[XCELR8]

But your rights to own guns - in very simple terms - puts others at risk. All of these guns used in crimes most likely came from legal sources.

What about that woman who bought her kid all of those guns because "he wanted them"? This fourteen year old kid nearly wiped out his high school class with legally purchased weapons.

Your right. Being free comes with risks. The risk here is that one of your legally purchased guns will end up in the hands of a criminal and will be used to hurt somone innocent.

Driving is a risk too. Thousands are killed annually from car accidents. Does that mean we should take away driving too, because there are bad drivers out there? Your argument sucks and you haven't a leg to stand on.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Good post 427Windsorman. It amazes me how smart our forefathers were, definately ahead of their time.:thumbsup:

Wow, that was brilliant. Originally, yes. Damn near ALL of them were legal when produced, until some low life scum stole them and sold them to criminals. Or the person that purchased them, apparently legally, then turned felon when resold or given to someone that was restricted in ownership of said firearm.

What about smuggled weapons? Are we going to forbid other countries from allowing their citizens to own guns so that they do not get smuggled into the US?

 

[Steve@TF]

rochard, you posted about freeway shootings in LA. i dont know, something like 7 people killed. seven, out of FOUR MILLION PEOPLE! 7 people are probably killed by a drunk driver in this town every night. guess what, there's STILL TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN! :fart: every person who fired a gun from their vehicle broke the law in that they we cant carry a gun in our cars here in CA. did that stop them? no. its illegal to own a handgun in DC. its still a dangerous city with a high rate of crime. and the friggin President lives there smack dab in the middle of it. probably with more federal agents in the area then cops. yet there is still much violent crime there.

"assault weapons" are illegal in CA. ok, so i cant go buy a Bushmaster AR15 like my friend in Arizona can. :rollseyes but guess what, a buddy of mine asked me if i wanted to buy one of his TWO AR15s. he's a major gun enthusiast and enjoys collecting them. he has several rifles, shotguns and handguns, some of which are illegal. there are TONS of "assault rifles" in CA, both illegal and legal. many of the "illegal" ones are owned by law-abiding citizens who happen to own a gun that is determined "illegal" within our state's borders. MANY criminals who would use them in violent crimes also own them. basically, the "assault weapons" ban in CA, hasnt exactly done what its supposed to do. sure, it stops "legal" sales of new "illegal" guns but that's about it. i was very interested in purchasing the AR15 that was offered to me purely for the joy of going out to the desert to fire it. the fact that my buddy said he has barely ever gotten to do that and the fact that if i were to get a mandatory 10 years of hard time if i got caught, prevented me from it. if they were to outlaw handguns in CA, the same people who would be busted after the new law, when pulled over, are the same people who get busted now anyways. those people dont give a shit about what the "law" says, theyre going to do what they want.

and according to Michael Moore, Canada has WAY more guns per citizen than we do, yet they have way less crime :shrug:

many states have CCW permits that are actually obtainable, unlike CA. i have yet to read any news stories in which any of these CCW permit holders have committed violent crimes or gone on a rampage, killing people. apparently not everyone attempts to obtain a CCW permit which is pretty much open to anyone (with a clean record). only someone who doesnt care what the law says would carry a gun on them without a having a permit, even though they could possibly get one rather "easily". THOSE people wont care if handguns are banned or not.

i coach my daughter's soccer team at our local park. its getting darker early now and there are all kinds of people hanging out the park. teenage wannabe gangbangers, homeless, mexican soccer players, you name it. my ex, my dauther's mother, is an lapd officer and always carries her gun with her. i feel 10000x safer at that park knowing that she has it there, just in case. if something were to happen, my fists, keys, soccer shoes, cell phone are not going to protect me or my 6-8 year old team of girls. that gun sure as hell is. we already had one instance on a saturday morning where a police car drove up on the field and removed a drugged out homeless guy who was sleeping next to the game. imagine if that guy jumped up with a huge knife and started running towards one of the kids. sure, one of the fathers who was nearby could try to stop him with his barehands but hands vs. knives.....

we're all in agreement with you that not everyone should be allowed to carry a gun around in public. some people are too stupid, careless or emotional to do so. everyone should have the opportunity to try to own one and possibly be weeded out for whatever reasons.

 

[FordSVTFan]

Are we going to forbid other countries from allowing their citizens to own guns so that they do not get smuggled into the US?

Do you actually think that is even possible?

 

[DanTheMan18]

But your rights to own guns - in very simple terms - puts others at risk. All of these guns used in crimes most likely came from legal sources.

What about that woman who bought her kid all of those guns because "he wanted them"? This fourteen year old kid nearly wiped out his high school class with legally purchased weapons.

Your right. Being free comes with risks. The risk here is that one of your legally purchased guns will end up in the hands of a criminal and will be used to hurt somone innocent.

My right to own guns puts others at risk? How about you just simplify it more? My right to own an exceptionally sharp #2 pencil puts others at risk, doesn't it? Or a plastic Wal-Mart bag could potentially be used to suffocate someone. Pick up a large enough rock off the ground, potential weapon. I just really don't picture those being outlawed.

The bottom line is, if someone just wants to kill someone else, for whatever reason, they're going to do it, by whatever means possible. If they've got a gun, they could shoot someone. If they're driving, they could run someone over, or ram them off the road. If they're walking down the sidewalk, they could pull out that exceptionally sharp #2 pencil and stab them to death.

If the guy beating his wife wanted to kill her, she'd be dead. You don't need a gun to kill someone.

If the dumbsh*t mother would have paid a little more attention to her kid, she might have realized that it wouldn't be the smartest idea to buy little Johnny his own personal arsenal. Is that a mistake that we should all pay for? No. Should she pay for it? Hell yes.

Do you get my point?

If we make it illegal to own guns, that's basically going to insure that the only people that have them are LEO's and similar career fields, and the people that are already obtaining them by illegal means. If anything, it will increase the crime rate, because it will become more tempting for the guy that bought the gun off the street to go mess with someone, because they can pretty much guarantee that they won't have the necessary means to protect themselves.

I just find it very... odd, for lack of a better term, that this argument is coming from an ex-Marine.

Sorry, that's just my two cents. I've tried to stay out of this discussion, but after reading some of this, I felt that I needed to throw something out there.

 

[dougwg]

I'd like to hear from some other Marines.

 

[CO9B3RA]

Sorry, that's just my two cents. I've tried to stay out of this discussion, but after reading some of this, I felt that I needed to throw something out there.

I just shortened the quote and got down to the 'brass tacks 'n' nails".....too many people/countries have been felled by the disarmament ploy and the US CANNOT be one of them. History is FULL of examples where these unarmed people/countries are strongarmed by totalitarian movements and the rights of the individual to defend themselves and what he/she holds dear are no more.

I am ex-Army and, tho my chosen defensive/offensive MOS back then was a missile, I still have my own private, legal defensive/offensive weopons. It would be against my nature to give up the right to have and bear arms. May the Supreme Court be of the same mind.

 

[BelvedereGTX]

Do us a favor and stfu Rochard

 

[BelvedereGTX]

But your rights to own guns - in very simple terms - puts others at risk. All of these guns used in crimes most likely came from legal sources.

What about that woman who bought her kid all of those guns because "he wanted them"? This fourteen year old kid nearly wiped out his high school class with legally purchased weapons.

Your right. Being free comes with risks. The risk here is that one of your legally purchased guns will end up in the hands of a criminal and will be used to hurt somone innocent.

Your a dumbass. You have no clue dude. If you disarm the law abiding citizen, the criminals will have won. You will be an easy target for them nknowing you are disarmed. The criminals will ALWAYS have an underground access to firearms. Also, about the woman purchasing all those guns? Well 98.5% of them were airsoft guns.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

Do you actually think that is even possible?

I'm sure from Mexico it is. I doubt much gets through from off shores but a lot of crap comes up from Mexico and I'm sure some of that includes guns. Do you know if it's true or not?

 

[03DOHC]

I'd like to hear from some other Marines.

Present and accounted for. :-D

 

[t0ad]

Rochard it seems as if you are somewhat of a minority in your thinking. I feel better knowing there are few of people like you and more people that truely think and understand.

Kudos to all. poo on Rochard and people who exist in his fantasy.


oh, SGT MN HAZELWOOD USMC 1972-1976 onboard

 

[dougwg]

03DOHC, T0ad

:thumbsup: