Shaq headed to Phoenix pending physical

[ThrottleJunkie]

Ugh, we're back to basic math. Getting rid of $30 million in salary and taking back $40 million is not clearing cap space. I don't know how this can possibly be misunderstood. Phoenix owes Marion $17,180,000. They owe Banks $4,176,000, $4,464,000, $4,752,000. They will now owe Shaq $20,000,000 and $20,000,000. Is this that hard? Next year they'd have an identical obligation, and in the season after that, they'd owe $15,536,000 more than they would have otherwise. Big savings!

To quote ESPN again for you (since you get your info there):


Again, Shaq was not remotely close to the best deal on the table. If they weren't going to give Marion what he wanted, who cares? If he leaves he can't get $20 million from anybody else so he'd need the Suns to pull a sign and trade anyhow, in which case they'd get the ultimate say on what they get in return if he wants that kind of money.

Meanwhile, I'll go watch some sportscenter, you go back to third grade math. And please, don't ever aspire to be an NBA GM.

Ok, here's what you aren't understanding, and nothing that you have quoted has even come close to rebutting this. SHAWN MARION WANTS $20 MILLION/YEAR FOR 2 YEARS TO BE RESIGNED. It could not be any simpler. It's either give Marion the money, who really doesn't wanna be there anyway, or use it to get some defense.

You don't realize that legit centers in this league come at a high premium. There aren't many left, and the greats like Tim Duncan are locked down where they are.

Your problem is that you're taking one writer's word for Gospel, cuz I'm sure you're getting all of your quotes from the same damn article. His view on it might be that it's a bad trade, but if you watched an episode of SportsCenter this morning or even NBA Live last night, there are multiple people who said this deal makes sense.

Whether or not we think it's a good trade will never be agreed upon, let's face that. So let's look at the facts:

- Marion wants $40 million over 2 years to stay in Phoenix.
- Banks has $13 or $14 million left on his contract. You do realize that the remaining contract will be picked up by Miami, thus why they made the move to clear cap room. Phoenix doesn't have to buy it out if he's traded.
- Shaq is broken trash.
- This trade doesn't do much to benefit either team. Miami loses size, Phoenix gains size (which isn't necessarily good)

We can argue about this all day long, but frankly, I have signing day to watch then I have to watch my Dukies put it on UNC, so if you want to keep arguing, it's going to fall on deaf ears.

 

[DBK]

Ok, here's what you aren't understanding, and nothing that you have quoted has even come close to rebutting this. SHAWN MARION WANTS $20 MILLION/YEAR FOR 2 YEARS TO BE RESIGNED. It could not be any simpler. It's either give Marion the money, who really doesn't wanna be there anyway, or use it to get some defense.

Maybe you missed this:

If he leaves he can't get $20 million from anybody else so he'd need the Suns to pull a sign and trade anyhow, in which case they'd get the ultimate say on what they get in return if he wants that kind of money.

The only team with the ability to pay Shawn Marion $20 million a year is Phoenix. If he wants that money, he has to get it from Phoenix. If he doesn't want to stay in Phoenix, he has to work a sign and trade to get them pieces that they want.

And in other news, I want $50 million for this post. Oh wait, it's irrelevant to the reality of the situation? Just like whatever money Marion wants has to do with this trade.

 

[Coiled03]

You don't realize that legit centers in this league come at a high premium. There aren't many left, and the greats like Tim Duncan are locked down where they are.

Wait, wait.......

Shaq is a legit center again? When did this happen?

And please - explain to me how exactly he fits with their style of play? Or are you saying that's irrelevant? lol

 

[OH3MGSVT]

A lot of people said that Grant Hill would hurt this team when we got him saying he was slow, slewn with injuries and no longer good....well look at him now he's averaging 15ppg and is playing like he was a rookie

 

[00SVT]

The Trade has now been Finalized.

 

[klarkent42]

A lot of people said that Grant Hill would hurt this team when we got him saying he was slow, slewn with injuries and no longer good....well look at him now he's averaging 15ppg and is playing like he was a rookie

True, but grant hill isn't 7 foot, 300+ lbs and trying to ail from recurring injuries. I can see what steve kerr was trying to do with bringing a big man to defend, but that isn't gonna do much for them on the offensive end. The suns are at the top of the west because of their high power offense. The core of that high power offense were marion, nash and stoudemire.... with marion gone, i cant help but think that the suns just downgraded their roster.

Steve kerr is gonna have his job on the line with this transaction. Time will tell if it works out. Only one thing left to say.......


GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!

 

[ViciousJay]

maybe the Suns know something the rest of us dont!?

 

[Posi]

Actually if they can get him healthy before the playoffs and keep him that way they might have made a good move. They know Nash is getting a little old. Then Stoudemire is going to need surgery again in a year or two. Grant Hill is up there a little. Then you still have Raja Bell and Barbosa. They definitely have enough guns and can probably run a half court game. Now they just need him to be healthy. At first I thought this was the worst move ever but it actually makes sense. You/we might be surprised what the big guy will hopefully do to win one more championship. He's a hell of a passer when he needs to be.

If and it's a big if he can stay healthy.

 

[ThrottleJunkie]

By the way, he DID lead a Heat team to a world title with no one you've ever heard of around him except Dwayne Wade.

 

[Troyz R Us]

Marion is a good player, but gees....I'm wondering how he's made it this far with such an ugly shot! Oh well...I guess if it goes in, that's all that matters. He can jump out of the gym as well.

I like change and Miami is in need of some change so it doesn't hurt my feelings to see the deal go down. PLUS, most peoples excuse for the Suns the past few years is "They can't win a championship because they don't have the presence of a big man down low". Now they have a big man and most are saying....this is bad, worst trade ever, Shaq sucks, blah blah.

Marion was gone at the end of this season anyway so they might as well trade him now...why not. I think a big man will come in handy in the West once playoff time rolls around anyway.

 

[PSUCOBRA96]

sucks for shaq, I'm sure he wanted to finish out his career in Miami

 

[DBK]

By the way, he DID lead a Heat team to a world title with no one you've ever heard of around him except Dwayne Wade.

Uh, you've never heard of (former all-stars) Antoine Walker, Alonzo Mourning, Jason Williams, Gary Payton, or James Posey, Udonis Haslem, Michael Doleac, Derek Anderson and Jason Kapono?

 

[Jefe]

sucks for shaq, I'm sure he wanted to finish out his career in Miami

Did you happen to hear that Shaq wanted to be traded? Guess not...

True, but grant hill isn't 7 foot, 300+ lbs and trying to ail from recurring injuries.[/SIZE]

You must be semi-retarded.

Wait, wait.......

Shaq is a legit center again? When did this happen?

And please - explain to me how exactly he fits with their style of play? Or are you saying that's irrelevant? lol

I too disagreed with the trade yesterday morning, but the more I read, the more excited I get.

Shaq doesnt fit their style of play, and thats exactly what they want. The Suns have been missing something every single postseason. An inside presence to stop Duncan, Bynum, Yao, etc. If anything, this will speed up the Suns. Please pull up game films from when Kareem was scoring 50 pts a game. Do you see him running the fast break? Nope...

They now have Amare 6'10" with a 38" verticle and a 7'1" 325lb'er in the lane. The other team throws up a shot and 9 times out of 10 one of those guys will get it. That allows the guards to take off even earlier than they have been for the fast break and an easy bucket.

This allows Amare to move back to his original postition at the PF. This also allows Boris to move back to the C(which he did amazing when Amare was injured). Did anyone see Amare's reaction to the trade?? Hes pumped!

Also the Suns wouldnt have made this trade if they knew they were trading an all star for a washed up injured big man. These guys deal with multi million dollar players every day. They know what theyre doing. The Suns have the best trainers in the NBA. Ask anyone. Shaq was in Phx yesterday and the trainers reported already that Shaqs hip is making improvements. Its the 1st day!!! Kerr said he will be in a jersey in less than 10 days.

Also please point out another team in the NBA that has their 4 and 5 guy shooting 58%+ from FG range? No one else does.


If you still doubt this trade, read this. This article is spot on:

If O'Neal can regain most of what he had even a few seasons ago, the Suns have just jumped over the Lakers and Spurs in this Western Conference game of leapfrog.
At the very least, the Suns and the season just got a whole lot more interesting.

So what can we expect from the new-look Suns with Shaq Daddy in the middle? Here's our scouting report: Post defense

Nobody is going to mistake O'Neal for Bill Russell, but he takes up a lot of space. The Suns have gotten a lot of credit for their shot-blocking ability this season, but face it - they've gotten most from the weak side as teams attack their soft middle.

The shot-blocking numbers will go down, because those guys are not coming in there anymore. Pick-and-roll defense

O'Neal is notorious for not getting out to "show" defensively on the two-man game. However, Amaré Stoudemire's pick-and-roll defense isn't any better. Rebounding

Shawn Marion was the best pound-for-pound rebounder in the NBA. That said, Shaq has a lot more pound-for-pounds to work with.

But seriously, that space-eating body usually means that if O'Neal doesn't get the rebound, somebody else on his team will.

Stoudemire probably is going to become a much better rebounder, statistically, sharing the floor with O'Neal. Running game

First, let's get one thing straight: The Suns haven't run this season like they have in the past, anyway.

And they still don't have a backup point guard.

Now, just because O'Neal can't run like he once did doesn't mean he can't be effective. If he rebounds and starts the break, it doesn't really matter if he's more than a trailer.

The Celtics ran with Russell, and years later, Robert Parish. The Lakers ran with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

The Suns lose a great finisher in Marion, but they still have Stoudemire, Grant Hill and Raja Bell to run with Nash, and the speedy Leandro Barbosa coming off the bench.

What about Boris Diaw? We'll get to that. Pick-and-roll offense

O'Neal has great hands, and - again - that big body, so there's no reason why he can't function in the two-man game with Steve Nash. More important, he can find a spot on the weak side when Nash and Stoudemire work their two-man game on the wing.

Trap Nash, and Stoudemire gets a dunk, because nobody is leaving O'Neal. If they do leave him, they best have sturdy bolts on the basket support. Post-up offense
The Suns haven't had one since the Charles Barkley years, and even at this advanced stage of his career, O'Neal is going to demand a double-team. The Suns have shooters - including Nash - who can spread out and feed off of those doubles.

Here, though, is where we think the decision on whether to start Hill or Diaw at small forward is answered. We can't see Diaw, Stoudemire and O'Neal functioning effectively together.

Hill will create more space because he can shoot consistently from 18-20 feet, and when defenders close out, he can drive and kick or finish.

This means Diaw comes off the bench - but he comes off as a center now, backing up O'Neal. It was at center where Diaw played when Stoudemire was injured two years ago, and it was at center that he was so effective.

So he gets to go back to that. Stoudemire stays at power forward whether Diaw or O'Neal is on the floor. Free-throw shooting

Oh, that's going down. Marion was a terrific free-throw shooter. O'Neal is among the worst of all time, and that will be a liability at the end of games. It's a small price to pay.

The bottom line: The Suns didn't have much to lose here. We thought they had a championship-caliber team that would be motivated by last season's playoff events to get over the hump.

It had been increasingly obvious that they weren't going to do that. Yes, the Suns had the best record in the Western Conference when the deal was made.

But guess what? They also were only six games ahead of ninth-place Houston.

There isn't much margin for error, and with the Lakers adding Pau Gasol, the Suns had to do something bold.

And, boy, did they ever.

Just like all the other big names to get traded to good teams. They just want to win a championship. When the Suns do make the playoffs, you cant tell me Shaq wont do whatever he can to ensure a title. The Suns tasted it last year. This will be their year. I cant wait to play Duncan with out new lineup.

Im calling a 20+ pt win against the Celts at home on the 22nd. I will be there!

 

[Quik Z06]

03AZ..I agree somewhat with you, but the big word in that quoted story of yours is "IF" If O'neal can get healthy, my guess is no (and im not trying to hate) Even when he was playing in Miami he wasnt doing much and fouling out of half the games he was in. Oh well, its cool, it makes it interesting now in the west that's for sure

 

[Coiled03]

Personally, I think this article has it spot on:

By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

Shaq may be the player who is least capable of thriving in the Suns' system. Run the break? No, thank you. Set a high screen and dive to the cup? Maybe 10 years ago. Space the floor for 3s? Please.

He's 35 and out of shape; at the moment he's also hurt. Even when healthy, he's had difficulty staying out of foul trouble long enough to make an impact. Although I'll grant that Shaq can still be an offensive force -- even with his struggles this year, his player efficiency rating (PER) is a very solid 18.17 -- he's toasted regularly on defense. And if you thought Marion complained about not getting shots, you ain't heard nothing yet.

Even if you subscribe to the idea that Shawn Marion had to go -- there have been mutterings about his attitude for quite a while -- you can't seriously tell me this was the best deal on the table.

Although matching his $17 million contract is difficult, the fact that there's only a year and a half left on it means there are partners out there. Just thinking out loud, for instance, you'd think New Jersey would have taken Marion in a heartbeat for Vince Carter or Richard Jefferson, and the Andrei Kirilenko deal that was so heavily discussed before the season also would seem preferable.

Marion, by the way, hadn't let his dissatisfaction and his own offseason trade demand affect his play. His 20.25 PER nearly matches last season's 20.87, and he's made up for a reduction in shots by cutting his turnovers and increasing his assists.

But despite his performance, they're trading him for an older, less effective player, and one who could not be more of a square peg in a round hole in their system.

And get this -- the deal will worsen their cap situation, too. Shaq is on the books for two years after this one at $20 million a pop, whereas Marion has only one year left at less money and may opt out after this season. So in addition to messing up their own team, the Suns basically will be handing Pat Riley and the Heat a big fat Get Out of Jail Free card.

In short, this deal feels like one of those movie scenes in which the lead character has a plan and says, "It's crazy ... but it just might work!"

I'm not sure about the working part, but it's definitely crazy.

 

[RedfireSVT]

By the way, he DID lead a Heat team to a world title with no one you've ever heard of around him except Dwayne Wade.

the referee's led miami to that title. game 3 last second call. that title rightfully belongs to dallas. i quit watching basketball after that, really no better than wrestling.

 

[ogbatman]

The problem with Shaq is that he doesnt want to loose the weight even tho all the trainers said that he needs too. Thats y he keeps having hip, knee and back problems.
He doesnt realize that as u get old u have to shed the lbs to b faster and healthier but Shaq doesnt get it and will only be good for 25 games if that.

 

[Jefe]

03AZ..I agree somewhat with you, but the big word in that quoted story of yours is "IF" If O'neal can get healthy, my guess is no (and im not trying to hate) Even when he was playing in Miami he wasnt doing much and fouling out of half the games he was in. Oh well, its cool, it makes it interesting now in the west that's for sure

Have you guys looked at his stats this year? If he can do that in Phx, then the trade was worth it. Ya he fouled out a lot, but the Heat didnt have anyone to back him up. Hes now playing with one of the best shot blockers in the game and has a great backup on the bench.

 

[Jefe]

03AZ..I agree somewhat with you, but the big word in that quoted story of yours is "IF" If O'neal can get healthy, my guess is no (and im not trying to hate) Even when he was playing in Miami he wasnt doing much and fouling out of half the games he was in. Oh well, its cool, it makes it interesting now in the west that's for sure

But do you really think the Suns would of made the trade if they didnt think they could get Shaq back to at least 95%? They know something we dont:beer:

 

[Jefe]

Nash comments:

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=rv3TLbFZW98"]YouTube - Steve Nash Comments on Shaquille O'Neal Trade[/ame]