RX8's, WTF are they really thinking...

[SLVRF16]

Spout off this yet you have the balls to say I'd get "owned" by a stock RX8 at willow...

:nono:

I never said you'd get owned by a stock suspension'd RX8. I said you'd get owned by an RX8 on a road course. I'll have to reserve judgement for how a fully setup-for-road course Cobra would be like. But if it's anything like what I've driven in with too much power, I don't see it doing very well at all..

-M

 

[ChuckV]

They do handle well. So does the cobra. The cobra has a lot of torque. So does an Enzo, and I don't hear anyone criticising its handling ;-).

The lovely thing about torque is that you can control it with your right foot.

 

[50 BMG]

:nono:

I never said you'd get owned by a stock suspension'd RX8. I said you'd get owned by an RX8 on a road course.

lmfao aint that bright...

AN (meaning any) RX8 includes those with stock suspensions.

:I'll have to reserve judgement for how a fully setup-for-road course Cobra would be like.

How do you reserve judgement when you've already ran your mouth about my particular cobra?

 

[SLVRF16]

lmfao aint that bright...

AN (meaning any) RX8 includes those with stock suspensions.

Is this logic class? :read:

My statement could include a stock suspension'd RX8 but doesn't necessarily mean always includes RX8s with stock suspension. ;-)

How do you reserve judgement when you've already ran your mouth about my particular cobra?

Because I am going by my experience and a reasonable educated guess:

1) The Cobra is too heavy for it's torque (especially when modded). The RX8 is more linear in it's acceleration and therefore can yield more consistant speeds.
2) It would need a superior braking system to slow down after it's hauling ass down a track faster than anyone else - and it's braking system isn't any better than the RX8s.
3) Weight Distribution. The RX8 has a better weight distribution and it's lighter. My friend (with the Cobra) took me over 130mph in mere seconds, but then had to brake hard.. the weight went all over the place when the steering moved from side to side. Try going full throttle through a series of cones and see how much the rear end lags behind your steering inputs.
4) By a very good educated guess, I figured that the RX8 is superior in handling to the Cobra.

You bashed the RX8 for trying to race you in a straight line. A bash worth mentioning and I give you all the respect for that because he shouldn't have even tried. However, to think that you could outmanuever it on a road course is REALLY disrespecting the car. It's like thinking that since you outlaunched some AWD car that you don't need to respect any AWD car.

-M

 

[ChuckV]

:nono:

I never said you'd get owned by a stock suspension'd RX8. I said you'd get owned by an RX8 on a road course. I'll have to reserve judgement for how a fully setup-for-road course Cobra would be like. But if it's anything like what I've driven in with too much power, I don't see it doing very well at all..

-M

Do you know how to drive? You can control power with your right foot. Power delivery in the Cobra is very linear with throttle application. Any competent driver can drive it neutrally through a corner at any power level. It's not a car that tends to snap oversteer at high power levels. The rear breaks away very progressively. Much more progressively than the rear of a few RX8s of been in around high speed corners, not to mention a few other cars like M3s....

I'm not an inexperienced driver when it comes to sports cars. I've owned several, and driven many, including both the RX8, and the 03 Cobra. They are on a virtual parody in terms of handling capability, with a SLIGHT ege going to the RX8 as a function of the reduced weight and better sterring feel. The Cobra offers better tire grip and less roll and corners, but doesn't transition quite as smoothly because of it's higher weight. The Cobra offers roughly 2.25 times the power that the RX8 does from the factory, with a much flatter torque curve, and therefore requires much more gentle throttle application.

The RX-8 does NOT boast more linear acceleration. Quite the oposite is true. Have you SEEN it's torque/power curve?

 

[Riddla]

op:

 

[50 BMG]

Is this logic class? :read:

My statement could include a stock suspension'd RX8 but doesn't necessarily mean always includes RX8s with stock suspension. ;-)

Don't backpeddle cause you didn't re-read before posting...

But I think they seem to offer better grip for the simple fact that the Cobra has too much torque to control.

+

But if it's anything like what I've driven in with too much power, I don't see it doing very well at all..

This says 1 of 4 things:

1) You need more seat time in said car.
2) You're not used to the power or torque output of said car in relation to what you normally drive.
3) The car you drove had a piece of crap suspension for it's power level
4) You need more skill on said course or just in general.

1) The Cobra is too heavy for it's torque (especially when modded). The RX8 is more linear in it's acceleration and therefore can yield more consistant speeds.

lol a cobra is not too heavy for it's torque. If you have trouble with a cobras torque, consider a stock RX8 with a 04 cobras stock torque....

2) It would need a superior braking system to slow down after it's hauling ass down a track faster than anyone else - and it's braking system isn't any better than the RX8s.

You'd just have a longer braking distance, a downfall of going fast...

3) My friend (with the Cobra) took me over 130mph in mere seconds, but then had to brake hard.. the weight went all over the place when the steering moved from side to side. Try going full throttle through a series of cones and see how much the rear end lags behind your steering inputs.

Thats called crap suspension in comparison to the rest of his modified car and/or driver skill.

4) By a very good educated guess, I figured that the RX8 is superior in handling to the Cobra.

Probably is stock vs stock.

 

[SLVRF16]

Do you know how to drive?

Let's not get insulting here, please.

You can control power with your right foot. Power delivery in the Cobra is very linear with throttle application. Any competent driver can drive it neutrally through a corner at any power level. It's not a car that tends to snap oversteer at high power levels.

In theory, you are correct. In practice you are far from correct for the average person, trying to sweat getting ahead of the next man, or being tailed by a car that's pushing them in the turns, is bound to make a mistake.

The rear breaks away very progressively.

This could be said for all RWD cars. Like you said, it would only be progressively if you progressively increased the throttle.

with a SLIGHT ege going to the RX8 as a function of the reduced weight and better sterring feel.

So what's all the fuss? :shrug:

The Cobra offers better tire grip and less roll and corners,

You're kidding right? Better tire grip is a function of the tires purchased. :read:

but doesn't transition quite as smoothly because of it's higher weight.

And this is a BIG problem on a road-course.

The Cobra offers roughly 2.25 times the power that the RX8 does from the factory, with a much flatter torque curve, and therefore requires much more gentle throttle application.

Yeap. This is absolutely true. Now, how many Cobra drivers you see at the track lose it around the corners on a given track day? It basically takes a more patient driver to handle that much torque than it would someone driving the RX8.

The RX-8 does NOT boast more linear acceleration. Quite the oposite is true. Have you SEEN it's torque/power curve?

Yep.

1) it's whp is a lot lower than a Cobra's therefore you have more leway with the throttle inputs.
2) It's peak hp is reached really high in the upper rpms.
3) It's curve looks almost linear (we are assuming a constant positive slope).

 

[50 BMG]

The RX-8 does NOT boast more linear acceleration. Quite the oposite is true. Have you SEEN it's torque/power curve?

Absolutely right.

RX8 = spooling up an N/A engine, something I haven't enjoyed since I owned my NSX...

 

[SLVRF16]

This says 1 of 4 things:

1) You need more seat time in said car.
2) You're not used to the power or torque output of said car in relation to what you normally drive.
3) The car you drove had a piece of crap suspension for it's power level
4) You need more skill on said course or just in general.

Perhaps. But then it could be exactly what I think it is too.

You'd just have a longer braking distance, a downfall of going fast...

:read: Does this not relate to more inconsistent speeds throughout the course?? I think it does.

Thats called crap suspension in comparison to the rest of his modified car and/or driver skill.

Maybe. But that would also mean you are admitting that the Cobra comes with crappy stock suspension. :loser: For the amount of whp that engine mods would produce, you would never match it with suspension mods unless you lighten the car IMO.


-M

 

[50 BMG]

:read: Does this not relate to more inconsistent speeds throughout the course?? I think it does.

What are you racing, NASCAR? Who cares about the consistency of speed throughout the course. I'm out there to get a fast lap, not set the cruise control at 55 MPH and do a lap with zero pedal input.

:But that would also mean you are admitting that the Cobra comes with crappy stock suspension. :loser:

LOL, all that admits is that your friend has a 560 rwhp cobra on a stock suspension. Now this all makes sense...rotflmfao

How in the hell did you even come to that conclusion of me ":admitting" something about the stock cobra suspension :lol1: Do yourself a favor and go reread all my posts and show me where I mentioned the stock suspension...

 

[SLVRF16]

What are you racing, NASCAR? Who cares about the consistency of speed throughout the course. I'm out there to get a fast lap, not set the cruise control at 55 MPH and do a lap with zero pedal input.

:read:

Let's see, if I had a goal of getting an average of XXmph, wouldn't my lap time be faster? :idea:

LOL, all that admits is that your friend has a 560 rwhp cobra on a stock suspension. Now this all makes sense...rotflmfao

Actually, no. He does have suspension mods, he just doesn't have a sway bar or coilovers.

How in the hell did you even come to that conclusion of me ":admitting" something about the stock cobra suspension :lol1: Do yourself a favor and go reread all my posts and show me where I mentioned the stock suspension...

Hehehe. so you didn't mention stock suspension. You win that argument. :thumbsup:

I still stand by my argument that the suspension of that car can never match the potential power levels. On a road course with lots of whp, I believe you'd have problems with a well equipped RX8.

-M

 

[grimreefer]

It all depends on what the definition of is... is. :rollseyes You made an initial faulty assumption SLVRF16, and now you're trying to argue your way out of it. :nonono:

 

[2k1cobra]

How did this turn into a autocross thread when this happened on the street. Who cares if the rx8 is faster around corners its ugly as shit and slow as balls. :kaboom:

 

[50 BMG]

:read:

Let's see, if I had a goal of getting an average of XXmph, wouldn't my lap time be faster? :idea:

Ya it would, but thats not what you said. You orignially argued for consistency of speed, not average lap speed. So unless your EVO goes around all the corners in the track at the same MPH it has at the end of the longest straightaway, -inconsistency- in speed would result in a faster lap time.

:Actually, no.

Acutally yes, here it is again.

Me-"Thats called crap suspension in comparison to the rest of his modified car and/or driver skill."

your response:

"But that would also mean you are admitting that the Cobra comes with crappy stock suspension."

 

[50 BMG]

It all depends on what the definition of is... is. :rollseyes You made an initial faulty assumption SLVRF16, and now you're trying to argue your way out of it. :nonono:

Well he ain't. I've played chess games against myself and experienced more suprises than this thread offers.

 

[ChuckV]

FYI, Grip is not a sole fuction of tires.... this isn't video game racing....

Download plays a BIG role... In this area, the Cobra has an advantage over the RX8 from what I've seen. And if we aren't talking stock vs. stock, a mildly moded Cobra is capable of nigh flawless handling. Components from the 00'R bolt right up, and that's a car that posted Enzo-like Skid-pad and slolem #s in Y2K.

 

[SLVRF16]

Ya it would, but thats not what you said. You orignially argued for consistency of speed, not average lap speed. So unless your EVO goes around all the corners in the track at the same MPH it has at the end of the longest straightaway, -inconsistency- in speed would result in a faster lap time.

Bah. I've failed to articulate my words to mirror what I actually mean. :fm: When I say consistency in speed, I mean speed entering/exiting turns. If I'm on a straight in a Cobra and have to slow down drastically, then I lose a lot of time building back up speed after I've exited the corner. An RX8 would be more consistent in holding it's speed since it wouldn't be going over 130mph on any given straight. Hope that clears things up.

Acutally yes, here it is again.

Me-"Thats called crap suspension in comparison to the rest of his modified car and/or driver skill."

your response:

"But that would also mean you are admitting that the Cobra comes with crappy stock suspension."

Where is it that I'm speaking about my friend's cobra?

In any case.. this argument has become useless. I won't believe a Cobra has superior handling capabilities over an RX8. And you won't respect them for their handling, so...

-M

 

[SLVRF16]

FYI, Grip is not a sole fuction of tires.... this isn't video game racing....

:lol:

I have neither the time nor the energy to get into physics yet again on these boards..so I'll pretend I didn't see this.. :read:

I'll make a suggestion though.. Take off your tires and add whatever mods you want to your car with bare rims on the road. See how well you do..(btw, I know what you mean, but you should've known what I meant..)

a mildly moded Cobra is capable of nigh flawless handling.

:xpl: You can't be that much of a fanboy. Even I don't think the EVO is the perfect handling car with just few mods to the suspension.. :bored:

-M

 

[ChuckV]

Then we both understand each other