wow! i had no idea the CG lock made me look so good!
Road course upgrades
- Thread starter 1slow95
- Start date
Thanks for the info! I'm going to get the camber bolts as a temporary "fix" until I get the CC plates. The plan is to install CC plates at the same time as the coil overs.
I now have new 275/35/18 NT01's and the wheels for them should be here in a couple days. Ordering the SS brake lines and camber bolts this week as well. Then I'll be back at Mid-Ohio on July 7th to test it out.
O.P. You want to run with the exotics? You want to compete with 458's Vettes, porsches, lamborghinis etc? That means handling and power. I have thought this subject through before I built my car. It can be done but beware; you can build a track car and it will handle like shit on the street and generally be an embarrassment to drive. So what if it runs with an exotic on the track. It is not much of a challenge to beat exotics on the track. A miata can do that. The challenge is to beat them with a streetable car. I agree with going naturally aspirated. Superchargers are great on the street but overheat at the track. With cams, a cobra jet, headers and a tune you can push 500 whp. You do not need more for the track. And you will have more wheel horsepower than a 458 and you will need it because nothing you will ever be able to do will make the car handle better than a 458 and still be streetable. But you can come so close that it really won't matter. I have given a 458 more than it could handle with the set up in my sig below. It is not a track car with huge front rubber that tramlines and rides too low for a driveway or a speed bump. Nor is it a super stiff suspension that launches you through the windshield whjen you hit a pothole. It can handle the track and the street and at 522rwhp @7800 rpm it is a hell of a lot of fun. but it is not cheap. Not listed below below is a Strano Adjustable front swaybar and an H&R rear Swaybar, light weight Full Tilt Boogie two piece front rotors, Tiger Racing Hood, Steeda rear wing. Also make sure you have a Torsen. That is also very key. So the below is A formula. It is not the only formula. But I think it is one of the best ways to achieve what you are after,
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You are leaning correctly. Cortex flat out builds the best suspensions for our cars. It all depends on how much you want to spend. Filip has a wide vaariety of coilover options and they are true coilovers not like KW's which are not true coilovers in the rear. The shop is on a racetrack and everything is tested and it all works. Ford racing and other race teams have disocvered Cortex and Filip seems to be very in demand. Griggs is great too but the supply chain is extremely unreliable.
Highway Star, That's what I'm looking for. I want to get as close to the exotics as I can with a car that anyone could daily drive. If I can't get there without going into race car mode, so be it. I took my last car to the edge of streetability and it was awesome on track but it was ... not pleasant to drive on the street. I see you have comp stage 2 cams, how well do these cars handle cam upgrades? That was the biggest issue that drove up the wall with my old car, low rpm bucking due to the big cam. These days I will take smooth running over more power any day. That's also why I was looking at blowers, easy power with stock driveability. I like the idea of NA better, but don't want to deal with driveability issues. If I can get to 500rwhp NA and it drives as smooth as stock, that would make me very happy 
I have a question regarding tire size. I love the idea of running 305's or 315's on all four corners, but I don't love the prices on those tires. Is it worth the extra cost to move up from a 275 tire?
I have a question regarding tire size. I love the idea of running 305's or 315's on all four corners, but I don't love the prices on those tires. Is it worth the extra cost to move up from a 275 tire?
Got my new wheels and tires mounted! I weighed the wheels at just under 22# and tires at 28#. I didn't weigh them together, but do the math and they should be in the 50# range. The offset is a bit more than I was expecting, but I can live with it for now. I may have problems with the rear once I lower it, and I'm a little concerned about Brembo clearance on the front. I'll be test fitting one of them on my parents Boss as soon as I can.
Update from Mid Ohio!
I need Brembos! I put fresh DOT 4 fluid in when I installed the SS lines, and I think I boiled the fluid in the first session. The brakes felt great at first, much improved pedal feel with the new lines, then they went to the floor one time and weren't right the rest of the day. These brakes are good, but I think I'm at the point where they just can't hold up to my driving style. I'll try some high temp fluid next time... I tried it once and still had brake issues so I didn't think it helped.
I set the front camber to roughly -2.5 with the camber bolts. This increased the front grip just enough to make the car oversteer slightly. Nothing I can't handle though, and it's cool learning how small changes affect the balance of the car.
The new NT01's were not a great success. They weren't balanced right so I had a terrible vibration over 90mph. Plus I could tell the old NT01's had more grip than the new ones. Looking forward to wearing these down to slicks. I actually ended up a half second slower than my last time there, but my lap timer showed a theoretical lap time a half second faster. So my thinking is that I managed to find some speed somewhere and slowed down somewhere else. After my brakes started acting up I stopped pushing it too hard. On the plus side I was able to run right with a C5 Vette! He pulled me on the straights, then I was right back on him in the turns. I kept up with a Ferrari on his warm up lap, lol. The CTS-V, ZL1, and a modded C5 Z06 got by me pretty easily too. I'd say those guys are a good target to shoot for before I go after Ferraris and such.
So now I'm back to looking at Brakes as my next mod. I've also been doing a lot of thinking about the suspension setup again. I was set on the Cortex coil overs, but then I realized I could do almost the entire suspension for what it costs for just the coil overs. Now I'm thinking of going with Koni Yellows, springs(MM? Steeda? FRPP?), TA, and Watts link. What I would like to know is how much would it improve lap times with the same setup and Cortex coil overs... I've seen a couple articles that state a 4 second gain in lap times going from stock to the complete Cortex kit, but I haven't found anybody going from an already modded car to the Cortex kit...
I need Brembos! I put fresh DOT 4 fluid in when I installed the SS lines, and I think I boiled the fluid in the first session. The brakes felt great at first, much improved pedal feel with the new lines, then they went to the floor one time and weren't right the rest of the day. These brakes are good, but I think I'm at the point where they just can't hold up to my driving style. I'll try some high temp fluid next time... I tried it once and still had brake issues so I didn't think it helped.
I set the front camber to roughly -2.5 with the camber bolts. This increased the front grip just enough to make the car oversteer slightly. Nothing I can't handle though, and it's cool learning how small changes affect the balance of the car.
The new NT01's were not a great success. They weren't balanced right so I had a terrible vibration over 90mph. Plus I could tell the old NT01's had more grip than the new ones. Looking forward to wearing these down to slicks.
I actually ended up a half second slower than my last time there, but my lap timer showed a theoretical lap time a half second faster. So my thinking is that I managed to find some speed somewhere and slowed down somewhere else. After my brakes started acting up I stopped pushing it too hard. On the plus side I was able to run right with a C5 Vette! He pulled me on the straights, then I was right back on him in the turns. I kept up with a Ferrari on his warm up lap, lol. The CTS-V, ZL1, and a modded C5 Z06 got by me pretty easily too. I'd say those guys are a good target to shoot for before I go after Ferraris and such. So now I'm back to looking at Brakes as my next mod. I've also been doing a lot of thinking about the suspension setup again. I was set on the Cortex coil overs, but then I realized I could do almost the entire suspension for what it costs for just the coil overs. Now I'm thinking of going with Koni Yellows, springs(MM? Steeda? FRPP?), TA, and Watts link. What I would like to know is how much would it improve lap times with the same setup and Cortex coil overs... I've seen a couple articles that state a 4 second gain in lap times going from stock to the complete Cortex kit, but I haven't found anybody going from an already modded car to the Cortex kit...
FYI, brake cooling should be at the top of your list as well.
I have brake ducts, what more can I do?
what pads were you using?
one place not to skimp out on or ever over look is brakes, they are the most important thing on any car as you should know. Vorshlag can get you squared away with a upgraded Brembo kit for a decent price and they can also get you setup with a spring/strut/shock combo that will work very well also. Cortex is absolutely going to be the top of the list when it comes to parts but as you see it also has the price to go with it, but you have to pay for quality. as pufferfish said what pads are you running? chances are you are beyond the pads effective heat range as well especially if you are on stock pads.
I'm not a fan of hawk pads so I won't be able to give you any good feedback on them, but maybe do a fluid flush since you boiled this fluid and change over to a more aggressive pad for your track days. I would save any major upgrades for when you do a swap to the Brembos or another aftermarket BBK.
+1 on saving for the Brembo or other BBK. I use PFC08 pads on dedicated rotors (Brembo setup) for track use and so far they have performed incredibly well. Also use good fluid and cooling of course.
Assume you are turning off stability control on track?
If you stick with Hawk pads you should go up at least another temp range HT-10, DTC-60 or DTC-70. HP+ are just a step up from aggressive street pads.
Also noticed that your backing plate is 'vented' to the rear? I'd keep it tight to the rotor face and get as much air as possible through the vanes.
Also noticed that your backing plate is 'vented' to the rear? I'd keep it tight to the rotor face and get as much air as possible through the vanes.
FWIW, I use strictly Hawk DTC60/70 pads for track use. At least for me, they work unbelievably well.
I really don't think there's a problem with the brake cooling, but I'll look into modifying the backing plates. I'm pretty sure the open end is covered almost entirely by the caliper, which is why I left them open there.
The problem I'm having is stopping on long straights. At Mid Ohio I'm coming down from 130-135 to 60-70 and braking as late as possible to still make the turn. (almost didn't make it a couple times ) Go through a short section and the brakes are back to normal for the next turn. That tells me the cooling is good, right?
The problem I'm having is stopping on long straights. At Mid Ohio I'm coming down from 130-135 to 60-70 and braking as late as possible to still make the turn. (almost didn't make it a couple times
) Go through a short section and the brakes are back to normal for the next turn. That tells me the cooling is good, right?
It's probably just the pads. Looking at it again, the hose outlet has to be close enough.
Brembos would get you a little more mass in the rotor, but definitely go to higher temp pads either way.
Brembos would get you a little more mass in the rotor, but definitely go to higher temp pads either way.
HP+ is marginal to an intermediate driver on brembos. you will have more heat issues with the smaller brakes, so your HP+'s are out of their heat range pretty quick. you need to step up to some real pads and flush the fluid with high temp dot 4.
pads: there are many choices. i deal with carbotech, so i will talk about them. the XP20 would probably be your best bet to handle the heat, but their newest compound, the XP24, may be a good choice also.
fluid: if you can manage the high cost of castrol srf, the stuff is superior to all others. high heat range and doesn't absorb water like the other dot 4's do, so you don't need to flush it as often, just quick bleeds. behind that, the ATE has been a good fluid for me.
pads: there are many choices. i deal with carbotech, so i will talk about them. the XP20 would probably be your best bet to handle the heat, but their newest compound, the XP24, may be a good choice also.
fluid: if you can manage the high cost of castrol srf, the stuff is superior to all others. high heat range and doesn't absorb water like the other dot 4's do, so you don't need to flush it as often, just quick bleeds. behind that, the ATE has been a good fluid for me.
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