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Religion vs Science debate: bring it in here

Discussion in 'Road Side Pub' started by James Snover, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. James Snover

    James Snover The Ill-Advised Physics Amplification Co Premium Member Established Member

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    Let's stop messing up other threads and bring the religion vs science debate in here. Just so everyone knows: I believe in God. No, I have no proof.

    All Holy books exist for one thing: to teach us what we need to know to live a good life and prepare us for the next one.

    But that is the _only_ information you get for free. Everything else we need to learn is entirely up to us. And He expects us to use the brains He gave us.

    For that, there is no better tool than the scientific method. It alone, of all mankind's philosophies, is the only self-correcting method of understanding how the universe works. The Scientific Method: Learn it, Live it, Love it.

    Gawd squad: you guys seem hung up on the fact that science leaves open questions. Yes, it does. If you don't like it, study up on some physics and start searching for answers. He gave you the ability to do it. Standing around in the food court of the mall with a large cross on your t-shirt isn't going to impress the girls nearly as much as you may think. And you are winning zero converts.

    Ok, there it is. Keep it civil or this will just get tossed into Smackdown.
     
  2. thomas91169

    thomas91169 # of bans = 5203 Established Member

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    This will all end in tears.
     
  3. Rct851

    Rct851 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Peppered angus for everyone. Jimmies will be rustled
     
  4. Coiled03

    Coiled03 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    In befo' smackdown!
     
  5. DaleM

    DaleM T$45GOATMAGAMen Established Member SVTP OG 4 Life Single Barrel Sirs

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    I officially love you even if you do not know the reason all the Holy Books exist. Even you must admit the reason is a leap of faith on your part. I'd say the books were a consolidation of tribal beliefs to influence tribes, groups, or armies to separate themselves from other groups for power and regional influence.

    Even x-ianity has such roles as directed by the MEN that wrote its doctrine, the Romans had a lot of reasons to establish a central church.

    Science and religion can live in harmony until the issues of proof of the gawds and the beginnings of the universe collide. I see no reconciliation in our lifetimes.
     
  6. paynecasey

    paynecasey Active Member Established Member

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    I'm pretty sure while the Bible isn't a science book it does mention a few things.

    It talks about trade winds. It describes certain animals *cough dinosaur*. And not only is a great book on how to live a proper life but it is also a history book.

    In the Old T you were supposed to eat Pig or bottom feeding fish. My cousin (a food scientist) told me that it is because back then pigs accidentally ate a certain parasite and when a human ate this. There skin would boil because the parasite transferred over.

    Doesn't the bible mention earths shifting plates?
     
  7. DaleM

    DaleM T$45GOATMAGAMen Established Member SVTP OG 4 Life Single Barrel Sirs

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    Much of the popular bibles have direct plagiarisms from pagan and other monotheistic leaning religions.
    I'd direct you to the Story of Sargon (aka Moses) and its dating as well as the law of Hammurabi.
    As far as your brother's story about pigs, it has a lot to do about the superstition (what most except the highly religious would call a superstition anyway) of demons being cast into them than parasites or spoiling meat. Also pig is the closest tasting meat to humans which I'd suspect is a taboo subject with a long history.
    What description of a dinosaur are you referring to? Not that it means anything but I have heard this before. Of course this comes at odds with those holy rollers that say fossils are not real or are not millions of years old, this is not a scientific consensus.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2013
  8. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker 2highPSI Established Member

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    "He hangs the earth on nothing." - Job 26:7

    The book of Job was written in 2000-1800 BC.

    "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth" - Isaiah 40:22

    The book of Isaiah was written around 800 BC.

    How did the authors of these books know that the Earth is suspended by nothing in space, or that the Earth was not flat but in fact round?
     
  9. 65fastback2+2

    65fastback2+2 Active Member Established Member

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    I dont mind science one bit. The problem is when science starts speaking factually when it isnt factual.

    My mom had some of the best doctors in the world at the Houston Medical center tell her that there was 100% chance one of my brothers would die in the womb and that she should abort him. He's 26, married with a 4 year degree....to this day they are still baffled.

    Science wants to say the universe is 13.8 billion years old and then throw in rapid inflation theory which blows any age estimations out of the water.

    Its the contradictions and constant changing that are annoying...and it wouldnt be so bad if they didnt act like things were so accurate and factual.

    Tell a scientist its a "theory" of evolution and they flip out "no, its not a theory, we have proof!" Just like wurd2 cant accept that dating methods are mere guesses because he didnt see anything age billions of years to 100% confirm it is that age. Just say "hey, its what we know currently"...instead he goes on and on about how its fact. no it isnt.

    Thats my pet peeve with science.
     
  10. DaleM

    DaleM T$45GOATMAGAMen Established Member SVTP OG 4 Life Single Barrel Sirs

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    LOL, all flat discs are round which explains the fear of falling off the circle. Why did they not use sphere, please look at the root word your circle is written in, it means disc, not sphere.
     
  11. 65fastback2+2

    65fastback2+2 Active Member Established Member

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    My favorite is circumcision on the 8th day...which happens to be when blood clotting in a human is at its highest capability in the entire life time.

    no science and the bible just got that correct? ~30,000 days in an average life span and with no science they got it right the first try...only the creator telling them so is plausible.
     
  12. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker 2highPSI Established Member

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    The book of Job explicitly details a very large beast of some sort - something so large that even spears from fisherman don't phase it:

     
  13. 65fastback2+2

    65fastback2+2 Active Member Established Member

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    when you look at a sphere from above (as exactly the scripture says) it does indeed look like a disc.

    [​IMG]

    looks like a disc to me
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  14. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker 2highPSI Established Member

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    This is the way ancient people talked about their experience of the world in the absence of any scientific knowledge about the processes at work in the world. Certainly we would describe the world today in much different terms. But then we live 3,000 years later in human history with much more knowledge about the physical world, and a different conceptual model and different vocabulary with which to describe the world.
     
  15. DaleM

    DaleM T$45GOATMAGAMen Established Member SVTP OG 4 Life Single Barrel Sirs

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    Perhaps had your gawds created man correctly there would be no need for the butchering. LOL, sign a pact with a gawd by snipping foreskin, you gotta laugh regardless how religious you are.

    http://www.parenting.com/health-guide/circumcision/circumcision-history
     
  16. thomas91169

    thomas91169 # of bans = 5203 Established Member

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    Sure it wasnt because people realized this by trial and error?
     
  17. DaleM

    DaleM T$45GOATMAGAMen Established Member SVTP OG 4 Life Single Barrel Sirs

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    So the word they had for a sphere, which they and did they decided to ignore? yes they just slipped up to make you look ignorant. The whole purpose of the bible is fulfilled now.
     
  18. James Snover

    James Snover The Ill-Advised Physics Amplification Co Premium Member Established Member

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    1.) We can't know why all the holy books exist. They've all changed over the millennia because they have all been written by human beings. Changes in meaning brought in by translations, personal biases, even typographical errors in printing, all by itself, ensures that no Holy book of today exists in its original form. The thing to take from them is their central message: don't murder, don't cheat on your wife, don't be a dickhead.

    And all of them have had their meaning perverted at one time or another by whoever was seeking political power and used various teachings from various books as suited their needs.

    2.) The idea that religion and science must be at odds is not necessarily axiomatic. Yeah, the Pope had Galileo put under house arrest for the rest of his life. They still allowed him to work and publish. And the Catholic church has a great science program. Is it perfect? Is it unbiased? Is it without its own agenda? No human endeavor meets those criteria. It is as useless to look for perfection in the human practice of religion as it to look for perfection in the human practice of the scientific method.

     
  19. 65fastback2+2

    65fastback2+2 Active Member Established Member

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    that doesnt prove plagiarisms at all.

    what it does show is that no matter the race or location, all men seek the same sins.

    it also shows that punishment for sins is needed as well.

    even romans talks about gentiles following the law though they didnt have it. that is, there are universal truths.

    do not murder is applicable no matter the society....do not steal is applicable no matter the time....do not lie is applicable no matter the setting.

    whether Israelite, Russian, Chinese, Babylonian....those truths are evident when it comes to sin.

    Furthermore, since we all descended from Adam and Eve...patriarchal law was passed down before the law of Moses. So, do not murder was passed down from generation to generation as well as when people's multiplied and spread out over the earth. murder is not wrong only because some christian bible says so, it is because God said so from the beginning.
     
  20. thomas91169

    thomas91169 # of bans = 5203 Established Member

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    Interestingly enough though, when it was postulated that the earth was in fact Round and not Flat, was it not the Church who negated this claim as blasphemy?

    What about when they theorized that the center of the solar system was in fact, not the earth but the Sun? Oh man, the Church hated that one.
     

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