RE: Billet Flow TB and idle issue

[roushraven]

Hey guys,

I'm pulling my hair out trying to get car to idle right after installing the Billet Flow TB. First, the car idled fine with the stock TB in place and there was no problem with a hanging idle either. However post install my car idle hangs at 1100-1200 rpm before very slowly dropping to about 900. I tried everything and this is this even after having Billet Flow re-work it for a sticking blade and new spring.
I reset the computer several times and each time after resetting it I drove it about 50 miles and made several on-off restarts. Even after having the battery disconnected over night and trying it all over again I still have the same problem as stated above.

As for existing mods pre/post install I have the Magnaflow catted x-pipe, and Steeda/Borla cat-back. Please help, I already sent e-mails to Billet Flow and JDM (retailer) because I'm afraid that my only remaining option is to ask for a refund. The part is so cool looking and definitely works under other than idle conditions so it would be great if I didn't have to return. Besides it's a pain in the you know what to re-install the stock part just to replace it later with something else.

Thanks,
Arthur

 

[03Sssnake]

did you check the TPS voltage, check for vacum leaks as well...

 

[roushraven]

Yep, I did both. The only possible vacuum leak is the TB itself. There is visible light around the blade when it's in the closed position. However, the guys at Billet Flow told me that would not cause me any problems. Any other suggestions guys???

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by roushraven
Yep, I did both. The only possible vacuum leak is the TB itself. There is visible light around the blade when it's in the closed position. However, the guys at Billet Flow told me that would not cause me any problems. Any other suggestions guys???

It is my understanding that the throttle blade needs to seal completely. The IAC sol. provides the correct amount of bypass air to make the car idle and this is PCM controlled.

Can you try to add a heavy extension spring to force the throttle plate to close quickly and completely?

Just a thought.

MJ

 

[roushraven]

That was my understanding as well Mark. However, Doug has already put a new spring on it (at least he said he did) and he told me that the air leaking around the edge of the blade is not a problem. I'm not the engineer but to me that seems to be the source of my problem. For comparison the stock blades close tight with no visible light to be seen.

Arthur:shrug:

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by roushraven
That was my understanding as well Mark. However, Doug has already put a new spring on it (at least he said he did) and he told me that the air leaking around the edge of the blade is not a problem. I'm not the engineer but to me that seems to be the source of my problem. For comparison the stock blades close tight with no visible light to be seen.

Arthur:shrug:

Exactly Arthur. The stock TB also has an epoxy-like sealant on the back of the dual blades to make the seal air-tight. I don't want to contradict Doug BUT IMO, there is a reason for this.

MJ

 

[larryc7777]

Hey Arthur,
Have you tried to idle the engine WITHOUT the IAC electrical connector plugged in? I have had excellent luck with setting the "base" idle(no IAC) at about 750RPM. The BilletFlow isn't designed to close & seal at idle(I don't think that the stocker is either). Try this: 1.Start the engine & get it up to operating temp. 2.Disconnect the IAC & attempt to adjust the throttle stop screw to give you 750 rpm. 3.After you get the idle speed set, turn off the engine. 4.Hook up your digital multimeter & verify that the TPS reading is at .98. If not, make it so. 5.Disconnect the negative battery cable for a couple of hours at least. 6.Put the cable back on & plug the IAC connector back in. 7.Start the engine & hopefully everything is right with your idle.

Give the ECU some time to adapt by driving & going through several "start cycles". My IAC will hold the idle at about 1000-1100 rpm when I release the throttle & disengage the clutch until my vehicle speed gets to below 5 mph. Then the idle will drop to 750.

TIP!! Don't rev the engine with the IAC disconnected or you will set an SES light. No biggie if you have a OBD II code reader to reset the light.

 

[HotRodHarry]

Just give Doug some more time to resolve this. He is the best man for the job. He really knows his shit and I think he will be able to help everyone out as soon as he can.

Harry
www.HotRodHarrys.com

 

[roushraven]

Thanks Larry. I tried something similar to what you suggested but still no luck and I was rewarded with a trouble code P1536.


HotRodHarry, I have no doubt that Doug is the best man for the job; however I'm rapidly losing my patience with this thing. A basic bolt-on really shouldn't require this much effort or science to install. I'm taking it off and replacing the stock TB. Perhaps the problem will get sorted out and I truly hope it does because it is a sharp piece of work but I'm no longer willing to be a "field" tester. I bought this car to enjoy not to labor over.

Arthur

 

[COBRyan]

You want to sell the TB?

 

[roushraven]

Yeah I'll sell it if JDM for some reason refuses to give me a refund that's where I bought it for $739.00.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by larryc7777
<snip> The BilletFlow isn't designed to close & seal at idle(I don't think that the stocker is either).

I'm almost positive that the stocker is designed to be COMPLETELY sealed off at idle. The PCM precisely controls the amount of idle air that is bypassed around the throttle plate via the IAC.

MJ

 

[2003 Cobra]

Doug is sensative and seems to stress out rather easily. Be careful with your choice of words when you deal with him.

 

[OverToad]

Doug is sensative and seems to stress out rather easily. Be careful with your choice of words when you deal with him.

:dw:

Are you saying he's unstable? I've talked to him a few times. I supposed I can see him wearing a white jacket with shiny clasps, running around on all fours chewing on the furniture and barking at the moon :read:

 

[larryc7777]

Originally posted by mjchip


I'm almost positive that the stocker is designed to be COMPLETELY sealed off at idle. The PCM precisely controls the amount of idle air that is bypassed around the throttle plate via the IAC.

MJ [/B]

I don't think so, MJ. I'm no guru on this system, but I do know that the car continues to run with the IAC disconnected. That either means that the IAC rubber tipped valve isn't an airtight seal when closed or that the throttle blade isn't completely closed when sitting against the throttle stop screw(yes, the stock TB does have a factory set throttle stop screw).

As for the coating, the stuff on my blades & in the throttle bores looked more like the runs encountered by holding a spray paint can too close to the object to be painted. The edge of both throttle blades had this look, not a uniformly applied coating. The throttle bores had a "ridge" that stuck up about .030 inside each bore. It more resembled a "carbon buildup" than an applied coating. I do know that these buildups were not promoting smooth airflow. I removed the stuff from both pieces & smoothed the areas with fine sandpaper. Then I performed the procedures that I described above & was rewarded with a smoother idle than I had ever had and an idle that didn't continually "hunt" for the proper idle speed.

I do concede that the guy who applied the coatings to my TB might have been having a bad day. I can't believe that the condition of my TB blades & bores was "normal". However, I can pretty safely say that the coating on mine weren't conducive to an airtight seal by any means.

 

[roushraven]

This is definitely not an air tight seal. Does it matter?? I'll never know because it's boxed up and ready to be shipped.

 

[RedfireVenom]

I'm curious, how many horsepower is the BilletFlow good for considering it costs 700+ dollars? I was thinking about it, but only if it really is worth it.

 

[J. Mihovetz]

The throttle body must have an airgap or it will stick. The oval blade throttle bodies are much more difficult than the round bore throttle bodies. I spent about a month messing with them until I figured out what was going on. They are very sensitive and tolerances are critical. Airgap on the 03 Cobra is the most sensitive that I have ever dealt with. I'm sure Doug will figure it out.

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by larryc7777
I don't think so, MJ. I'm no guru on this system, but I do know that the car continues to run with the IAC disconnected. That either means that the IAC rubber tipped valve isn't an airtight seal when closed or that the throttle blade isn't completely closed when sitting against the throttle stop screw(yes, the stock TB does have a factory set throttle stop screw).

As for the coating, the stuff on my blades & in the throttle bores looked more like the runs encountered by holding a spray paint can too close to the object to be painted. The edge of both throttle blades had this look, not a uniformly applied coating. The throttle bores had a "ridge" that stuck up about .030 inside each bore. It more resembled a "carbon buildup" than an applied coating. I do know that these buildups were not promoting smooth airflow. I removed the stuff from both pieces & smoothed the areas with fine sandpaper. Then I performed the procedures that I described above & was rewarded with a smoother idle than I had ever had and an idle that didn't continually "hunt" for the proper idle speed.

I do concede that the guy who applied the coatings to my TB might have been having a bad day. I can't believe that the condition of my TB blades & bores was "normal". However, I can pretty safely say that the coating on mine weren't conducive to an airtight seal by any means.

Well, I could be wrong BUT there is anecdotal evidence that the stock TBs are designed to seal VERY well....maybe not air tight but very well nonetheless. Here is a picture:

MJ

 

[mjchip]

..and another

Here is another:

MJ