RE: Billet Flow TB and idle issue

[roushraven]

J. Mihovetz

So if the air gap is necessary for the oval blade design to operate on these cars; given that the car is functioning properly in its stock form what else could cause the problems that I and apparently others have experienced????

Arthur:shrug:


MJ

Thanks for the stock TB picks. Although I'm now very proficient at removing the TB and plenum I just didn't feel like getting up to do it.

 

[dougwg]

Roushraven

You are in no way a "field" tester.

It's not:

The IAC
The TPS
The stop screw
The tolerances
vacuum leaks
spring
epoxy-like sealant
white jacket
shiny clasps
or Toad juice

We believe WE HAVE found the problem and a fix. I will not go into it right now, I will however say it has something to do with vacuum (but not a vacuum leak!). Vacuum is sucking the butter fly open or rather keeping it open, which I have proven on our test car.

Before you ask, I don't want to go into it right now because it would be conjecture on my part and I would rather wait till I knew for sure.

I was able to duplicate it here at the shop, We are in Michigan all the cobras are put up for the winter (4 - 5 months) and it's hard to get a car in here to run tests on, you have to remember not everyone is seeing this problem.

Mj: yes the stock tb shuts off completely, But as John said, the oval bore must not, should not, can't,,,,, they will stick!

but the problem lies somewhere else, trust me on this.

We have a test tb that we will be NEXT DAY AIRING out to a well known tuner for his testing, if he agrees it is fixed then I will know exactly what to do.

Remember guys, the car is new. We are on the cutting edge.

These cars have been on the road for what , about 6 -7 months.
This is the only "bug" and we believe we have the fix.

The internet is as fast as light, UPS is a bit slower. Give me a few days to send the text TB down to the tuner.

After I get conformation from the tuner, I will know exactly what to do.

But I can't do anything till then, again, please give me a couple days.

 

[roushraven]

Thank you for the response Doug, the frustration got the best of me for sure. Anyway, I literally just got off the phone with Jim at JDM before reading this and have accepted his offer to help me out. He's sending me a replacement unit.

I hope it goes well for you because the workmanship/finish of the part is great.

Arthur

 

[sbc.cobra]

Originally posted by dougwg
Roushraven

You are in no way a "field" tester.

It's not:

The IAC
The TPS
The stop screw
The tolerances
vacuum leaks
spring
epoxy-like sealant
white jacket
shiny clasps
or Toad juice

We believe WE HAVE found the problem and a fix. I will not go into it right now, I will however say it has something to do with vacuum (but not a vacuum leak!). Vacuum is sucking the butter fly open or rather keeping it open, which I have proven on our test car.

Before you ask, I don't want to go into it right now because it would be conjecture on my part and I would rather wait till I knew for sure.

I was able to duplicate it here at the shop, We are in Michigan all the cobras are put up for the winter (4 - 5 months) and it's hard to get a car in here to run tests on, you have to remember not everyone is seeing this problem.

Mj: yes the stock tb shuts off completely, But as John said, the oval bore must not, should not, can't,,,,, they will stick!

but the problem lies somewhere else, trust me on this.

We have a test tb that we will be NEXT DAY AIRING out to a well known tuner for his testing, if he agrees it is fixed then I will know exactly what to do.

Remember guys, the car is new. We are on the cutting edge.

These cars have been on the road for what , about 6 -7 months.
This is the only "bug" and we believe we have the fix.

The internet is as fast as light, UPS is a bit slower. Give me a few days to send the text TB down to the tuner.

After I get conformation from the tuner, I will know exactly what to do.

But I can't do anything till then, again, please give me a couple days.

not really looking for details, but if this is the problem, what happens to all of the others who have the billetflow TB and has the problem? do they get replacement units/parts at no charge? just wondering so everyone doesn't start trying to get refunds. thanks doug.

 

[JB]

Originally posted by 2003 Cobra
Doug is sensative [sic] and seems to stress out rather easily. Be careful with your choice of words when you deal with him.

do you *really* think that comment was called for ? :shrug:

 

[Jerryk]

Originally posted by dougwg
Roushraven

You are in no way a "field" tester.

It's not:

The IAC
The TPS
The stop screw
The tolerances
vacuum leaks
spring
epoxy-like sealant
white jacket
shiny clasps
or Toad juice

We believe WE HAVE found the problem and a fix. I will not go into it right now, I will however say it has something to do with vacuum (but not a vacuum leak!). Vacuum is sucking the butter fly open or rather keeping it open, which I have proven on our test car.

Before you ask, I don't want to go into it right now because it would be conjecture on my part and I would rather wait till I knew for sure.

I was able to duplicate it here at the shop, We are in Michigan all the cobras are put up for the winter (4 - 5 months) and it's hard to get a car in here to run tests on, you have to remember not everyone is seeing this problem.

Mj: yes the stock tb shuts off completely, But as John said, the oval bore must not, should not, can't,,,,, they will stick!

but the problem lies somewhere else, trust me on this.

We have a test tb that we will be NEXT DAY AIRING out to a well known tuner for his testing, if he agrees it is fixed then I will know exactly what to do.

Remember guys, the car is new. We are on the cutting edge.

These cars have been on the road for what , about 6 -7 months.
This is the only "bug" and we believe we have the fix.

The internet is as fast as light, UPS is a bit slower. Give me a few days to send the text TB down to the tuner.

After I get conformation from the tuner, I will know exactly what to do.

But I can't do anything till then, again, please give me a couple days.

Doug, thanks, sounds reasonable. We'll wait for your results. I'm sure Doug will come up with an equitable solution for all us Billetflow owners, lets give him some time.

Jerry

 

[roushraven]

Hey guys I believe that my thread served its intended purpose. Please don't be offended but I have asked the moderators to lock it before it turns into a flame fest.

Thanks Jim and good luck Doug.
Arthur

 

[dougwg]

no need to lock the tread!

a replacement unit will not make a differance!

>what happens to all of the others who have the billetflow TB and has the problem<

I will fix any and all units free of charge!

Doug
BilletFlow

 

[HotRodHarry]

Originally posted by sbc.cobra
not really looking for details, but if this is the problem, what happens to all of the others who have the billetflow TB and has the problem? do they get replacement units/parts at no charge? just wondering so everyone doesn't start trying to get refunds. thanks doug.

Dont worry...I know Doug will treat "everyone" fair once the fix is figured out. Thats just the way he is.

Harry
www.HotRodHarrys.com

 

[mjchip]

Originally posted by dougwg
no need to lock the tread!

a replacement unit will not make a differance!

>what happens to all of the others who have the billetflow TB and has the problem<

I will fix any and all units free of charge!

Doug
BilletFlow

Attaboy! :thumbsup:

MJ

 

[chillfactor]

Mj those numbers are looking real good .......when you sending one to harry for testing.............??????ha ha ha

 

[larryc7777]

Hey Guys,

This is slightly off topic(sorry roushraven) but this thread has given me another possible insight into the stalling issue that plagues almost 50% of the people who took the Poll on Stalling.

Since both MJ & Doug say that the throttle blade on the stock TB closes & seals, I will bow to their greater knowledge about that fact. HOWEVER, maybe that is the major cause of the stalling issue. For instance, when the throttle is released suddenly & the clutch disengaged quickly(stopping, turning,whatever), the throttle blades evidently shut off all airflow THROUGH the throttle bores. This FORCES the IAC to react immediately to "catch" the engine idle, before it falls too low to keep running, by bypassing air AROUND the bores. Now, in the bone stock configuration, this is accomplished almost every time without a hitch. But when we deviate from stock(CAI, filters, modified airboxes, aftermarket MAFs) we change the way the air passes the MAF. The aftermarket tuners have stated that the ECUs in our vehicles are VERY finicky. So, even as small a change as an aftermarket dropin K&N could trigger altered MAF signals, which could delay the IAC from receiving the "catch the idle" signal from the ECU. I only have my own Cobra as an example, but it is pretty good example of the Stalling Problem.

I can't really say whether my car stalled when stock because it didn't stay stock more than 2 days. ;-) I shortened the air silencer tube 2 days after I drove the car home. The DC CAI was on within 10 days. During this time, I started noticing occassional stalls. The weather turned colder, the stalls came more often. I tried numerous fixes with varying success. What has worked the best(and longest) for me is this: a modified stock airbox with a BIG K&N, coating removed from throttle blades & bores, idle speed set at 750with IAC unplugged(I had to remove the oem throttle stop screw & install an adjustable one), and TPS voltage adjusted to .98(key on, engine off). This combination has resulted in a smooth 750 rpm idle & no stalls.

I feel that having the throttle blades open SLIGHTLY takes some of the strain off of the IAC/ECU responsibility for idle control. The IAC still controls a large portion of the idle process(i.e., when the air conditioning compressor kicks on, ect.), but now there is a "base" idle setting accomplished by the TB itself that will allow the engine to idle even if the IAC is completely removed from the vehicle. And, so far, I haven't experienced any "down side" from this modification. Since the TPS voltage is what the ECU recognizes as the "throttle closed" value, it merely accepts the idle speed without asking the IAC to make any adjustments to that speed AS LONG AS THE IDLE SPEED IS WITHIN WHATEVER HIGH/LOW PARAMETER PROGRAMMED INTO THE ECU. I have found that 750 is about the maximum that the ECU will accept as an "unassisted[IAC]" idle speed without throwing a P1536 SES code.

I hope that somebody else out there with the stalling problem will try this fix. I'm really curious to know if I just got lucky on my own car or if this might work on other Cobras as well.

ps. Removing the TB/bore coating may not be necessary for everybody. The pic that MJ posted isn't even close to looking like the mess that was in my TB. Had mine looked that good, I wouldn't have bothered with removing the coating.

 

[Blue03Cobra]

Originally posted by roushraven
Hey guys I believe that my thread served its intended purpose. Please don't be offended but I have asked the moderators to lock it...

Done