+1 for Meth inj.
Procharger + spray?
- Thread starter spyder1337
- Start date
No additional fuel is needed with meth?
Just the mixture... Spyder you car is goiing to fly...not like its slow now...
spyder1337 said:
it is fuel.
LS1PUSSOUT
Banned
my tuner said hes never seen any HP gains on the dyno using meth. Im not sure if its really not worth it or if he doesnt know how to tune with it.
With meth/water injection alone there will be no gains. You might lose some. The benefit comes from being able to run an AFR of 12:1 instead of 11.5:1. and by adding timeing. More timeing, leaner AFR = more power.
type911 said:
no, its not. like is stated above me, its used to cool the air charge going into the motor, and only has gains when its tuned for it. and besides, a procharger isnt going to heat up the intake charge near as much as a Heaton. so your not going to see the gains that a 03-04 cobra would
im not a fan of anything that can ruin my motor if it goes out. lets say you have an aggressive tune for h2o/meth injection. and lets say you run out, dont know it, and make a pass. turning your engine into a big heap of molten aluminum. i'll pass.
bottom line, build a kick ass fuel system, and then turn up the wick. trying to make more power with a fuel system that is topped out is playing with fire.
03InThe11s said:
Are you kidding me? Methanol.....Fuel. It most certainly is a fuel. Its highly flamable.
Do some research. You have it backwords. Meth doesnt work so well on the eaton cars as it does on Centri's and Turbos. Some speculate its because eatons evaporate it on the hot Blades of the SC.
What if your BAP fails, What if your Fuel pump fails, What if an injector gets clogged? WIth a Snow Meth kit you can tell way beforehand if something isn't right. You have a little light that goes on when the pump is on. There is a light kit that will let you know when its near empty as well.
You would have to run at the track for at least 10 consecutive days to empty a resevoir.
Get informed about it before you make a statement about it.
type911 said:
i am informed. its not used as a fuel in these kits there big guy. thats the reason you can use straight h2o in them. you add no oxygen. they use meth, because as it evaporates, it cools, as does water. you, my friend, might want to get informed before you make a statement about it. thats the reason they call it the BOOSTCOOLER. now, meth does burn, and it is flamable, but it is not used as a fuel in these applications. do you really think of your windsheild wiper fluid as being a fuel?
from the snow performance website:
Why Water/Methanol Injection?
The Boost Cooler® is Snow Performance’s latest generation water/methanol injection system. The primary function of water/methanol injection is to provide “chemical intercooling”.
"In gasoline engines, as with any intercooler, this suppresses detonation so more power producing boost and timing can be utilized. Water, with its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. Methanol cools the charge and combustion"
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03InThe11s said:
You said it wasn't a fuel. I mearly corrected that statement. With a 50/50 mixture of Meth/water your AFR will richen up in a centri/turbo application by aprox. half a point. So yes it is fuel. When You tune for it you tune for an AFR of aproximately .5 higher then what you want to run with meth inj. So with meth lets say you want 12:1. So you lower timeing and tune for 12.5 without METH inj. then add meth and AFR will then go to 12:1 (your desired AFR) Thats an example. Then add timeing in 1-2 degree increments.
So in a centri/turbo car you will efectively raise your octane, Lower aircharge temp and cool combustion.
In a eaton car you will burn off the Meth on the SC Blades and effectively only see aircharge temps and combustion temps decrease.
03InThe11s said:
Winshield washer fluid is for the most part a 20%meth and 80% other mixture. I do consider the Meth a fuel not the other parts.
You are correct that it is primarily to cool aircharge but the other benefits are there as well.
at 9.85:1 CR and 11psi I would see det at 17deg timeing up top and an AFR of 11.5:1. with Meth injection we maxed out our HP/tq Curve and no det. I run 21degrees uptop without a hint of det. and an AFR of 12:1 accross the curve.
So for me its the Meth injection that keeps my tune safe. I wouldn't dare run without it.
the meth does not burn off in a roots blower. merely evaporates. as you know, liquids dont burn, but their vapors do. so, unless there is combustion in the blower, that "fuel" does not burn untill it reaches the combustion chamber. meth injection usualy works better on less effecient blowers, i.e. the eaton or roots style.
i have seen these systems on both positive displacement and cent. style blowers, and its never changed the a/f, and only offerd power when tuned for it.
i have seen these systems on both positive displacement and cent. style blowers, and its never changed the a/f, and only offerd power when tuned for it.
03InThe11s said:
I dont know what to tell you. :shrug:
However I don't know of any 03/04 guys that like it.
also, if your a/f went up half a point, from 12-1 to 11.5 to 1, that means you are burning a half gallon of meth per every 11 gallons of fuel. or 1 gallon of 50/50 mix per 11 gallons.
but to each his own. some people swear by it, i dont like it. nitrous does a much better job of cooling, and gasoline has much much more power drop for drop.
edit: snow sells meth/water mix for $44.90 per 4 gallon case ($24.95+$19.95 handling. free shipping!). i'll take my n2o at $3/lbs
also, their kits have a 2qt capacity. which means, if you play much, and your a/f is similar to above, you need to refill it every 5.5 gallons of gas you burn. if not, your tuned for it, and can screw up your motor with excessive timing and a lean a/f
but to each his own. some people swear by it, i dont like it. nitrous does a much better job of cooling, and gasoline has much much more power drop for drop.
edit: snow sells meth/water mix for $44.90 per 4 gallon case ($24.95+$19.95 handling. free shipping!). i'll take my n2o at $3/lbs
also, their kits have a 2qt capacity. which means, if you play much, and your a/f is similar to above, you need to refill it every 5.5 gallons of gas you burn. if not, your tuned for it, and can screw up your motor with excessive timing and a lean a/f
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03InThe11s said:
AT WOT maybe.
And you forgot to mention how much more expensive Nitrous is.
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type911 said:
true. very true. goes to show theres more than one way to skin a cat (or make hp):beer:
I have the Snow kit in my car... Tunning is difficult, and you can't set your watch by the horsepower gaine either.
Always a tuning issue...dual injectors, single, rate..ect....
Quick horsepower but so far top hard to tune....go nitrous....imho...
Always a tuning issue...dual injectors, single, rate..ect....
Quick horsepower but so far top hard to tune....go nitrous....imho...
like I said. 03/04 guys dont like it. much better for turbos and centri's
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