Procharger or Vortec 99 Cobra

[bsmith782]

I read some threads here form a couple of years ago and it seems to be a toss up. Procharger loyalists say pcharger and vortec loyalists say vortec.

It seems to me the the pcharger needs an intercooler to make the same numbers or slightly less than a vtec with out one.

My thoughts are a disc or a t trim. I would be purchasing a used unit and know you can get a pcharger rebuilt for ~$800 im wondering if you can do the same with a vtec or if its even something that is needed that often on them.

Any real worls experence or USEFUL info is appreciated. Please DO NOT post what you have heard or read on the internet, only FACTS.

Thanks. :beer:

 

[01yellercobra]

I think the blowers are about equal personally. I had a buddy with an S trim and I'm running a D1. Every blower is going to need an intercooler at some point. The Procharger comes with it while the Vortech is an add on. The main reason I like the Procharger is I don't have to punch a hole in the oil pan during the install. But now Vortech has self contained units as well. Blowers usually only need to be rebuilt if something bad happens. Like a bearing going out or a seal going bad. I have around 10K on my blower and it's still going strong. Something I will give Vortech is the mounting bracket. The Procharger isn't at strong. I think it's really going to come down to which company you like better.

 

[94venomV8]

I am not partial to either company as I haven't had either one in the past. However I am looking to go to one from my Kenne Bell unit in the near future. After talking to Bob Kurgan about doing it he has recommended the T-trim for me. Personally though after researching on my own if I were to go with a procharger it would be a F1 unit. If you do not go with a F1 unit then I would say go T-trim for sure.

And I also agree with the above post, at some point both blowers with need cooled in some way, the numbers you are seeing differ could be a number of different things in the tune to meth injection, etc. The thing I do not agree with above is the self contained unit being better. If you plan on getting higher in the boost the oil fed unit is better because it has the ability to have more oil that can be cooled as well as circulated through a filter constantly. Again I was thinking of a Si-trim vortech which was self contained but after talking to numerous people they recommended the oil fed unit for the power I want. Hope this helps.

 

[94venomV8]

Oh and one more thing, I have a few buddies with vortechs and they have been consistent for years with no problems and this is on anything from a low 9 sec. car to your regular 12 sec street car. I really don't know anyone around here with a procharger but have heard they are also reliable.

 

[97desertCobra]

Fact # 1: Procharger flows more cfm than the competing Vortech unit, thus there is potential to make more power at the same boost level with the increase in cfm. Most people do not take advantage of this increase in cfm flow because to take full advantage you need the intake and heads to flow enough cfm to compliment the blower.

Fact # 2: Procharger uses a much more aggresive step up ratio compared to the competing Vortech unit. This helps the blower make more boost in the lower rpms. Again people usually dont take much advantage of this as the step up ratio really starts to show its merit the more boost you are pushing out of the blower.

Some Prochargers have some issues with leaking, however from my own observation it seems that is a more common problem with the P1SC blowers and less a problem with the D1SC and the F1 units.

Either way you go be it Procharger or Vortech each company offers a good kit that will match your horse power goal. I prefer Procharger for my reasons stated and ones already stated. Plus I like the sound they make more than Vortech units and I like the way they look compared to the Vortech units. Only thing I really dont like is the weak braket.

 

[01yellercobra]

The thing I do not agree with above is the self contained unit being better.

Just wanted to point out that the self contained thing was my opinion. I've never been a fan of punching holes in oil pans.

 

[bsmith782]

Thanks for all the info fellas.

I have heard that the v-2 S/SC will outperform a p1/d1 when taken to the upper limits of its rpm range and in doing so has less low end boost. This is why some feel the F1 is a good choice, great lowend and super high end. I dont think though that I will need a F1. Im not planning on going that crazy, but im sure that has been said and broken many times before.

I assume the only difference between the v-2 S and SC is the self contained oil?

 

[Myzticsnake]

Thanks for all the info fellas.

I have heard that the v-2 S/SC will outperform a p1/d1 when taken to the upper limits of its rpm range and in doing so has less low end boost. This is why some feel the F1 is a good choice, great lowend and super high end. I dont think though that I will need a F1. Im not planning on going that crazy, but im sure that has been said and broken many times before.

I assume the only difference between the v-2 S and SC is the self contained oil?

self contained is the v3 epper:

 

[04cobradude]

Fact # 1: Procharger flows more cfm than the competing Vortech unit, thus there is potential to make more power at the same boost level with the increase in cfm. Most people do not take advantage of this increase in cfm flow because to take full advantage you need the intake and heads to flow enough cfm to compliment the blower.

Fact # 2: Procharger uses a much more aggresive step up ratio compared to the competing Vortech unit. This helps the blower make more boost in the lower rpms. Again people usually dont take much advantage of this as the step up ratio really starts to show its merit the more boost you are pushing out of the blower.

Some Prochargers have some issues with leaking, however from my own observation it seems that is a more common problem with the P1SC blowers and less a problem with the D1SC and the F1 units.

Either way you go be it Procharger or Vortech each company offers a good kit that will match your horse power goal. I prefer Procharger for my reasons stated and ones already stated. Plus I like the sound they make more than Vortech units and I like the way they look compared to the Vortech units. Only thing I really dont like is the weak braket.

your facts are FALSE

 

[97desertCobra]

your facts are FALSE

Really? The V1 and V2 flow 1150 cfm compared to the P1SC that flows 1200 cfm. The T trim flows 1200 cfm compared to the D1SC that flows 1400 cfm. The YSI flows 1600 cfm compared to the F1A that flows 1650, the F1C that flows 1850 and the F1R that flows 2000 cfm. Am I missing something?

Vortech Supercharger Comparison Chart

ProCharger Supercharger Models

The V2 including the T trim has a 3.60.1 step up ratio compared to the 4.10.1 for the P1SC and the D1SC. The JT trim is 3.45.1 compared to the F1A and F1C 5.4.1. I couldn't find the ratio for YSI trim so thats why I compared the JT trim against the F1 units.

How is what I am saying false?

 

[97desertCobra]

Thanks for all the info fellas.

I have heard that the v-2 S/SC will outperform a p1/d1 when taken to the upper limits of its rpm range and in doing so has less low end boost. This is why some feel the F1 is a good choice, great lowend and super high end. I dont think though that I will need a F1. Im not planning on going that crazy, but im sure that has been said and broken many times before.

I assume the only difference between the v-2 S and SC is the self contained oil?

Where have you heard that before? The V2's max blower rpm is 53000 RPM and its max boost out put is 17 PSI. Compare that to the P1SC whose max blower rpm is 65000 RPM and its max boost out put is 32 PSI. The D1SC max blower RPM of 62000 RPM and its max boost out put is 32 PSI.

Vortech Supercharger Comparison Chart

ProCharger Supercharger Models

[ame=http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45204]Blower RPM Calculator - 2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club[/ame]

 

[bsmith782]

I heard it from a very reliable source for mustang tuning and equipment specs.

We all know that a P1 becomes very inefficient after 16-18lbs so 32 is completely ludicrous. I don't think I have ever seen a d1 over 20lbs. Have you?

Where have you heard that before? The V2's max blower rpm is 53000 RPM and its max boost out put is 17 PSI. Compare that to the P1SC whose max blower rpm is 65000 RPM and its max boost out put is 32 PSI. The D1SC max blower RPM of 62000 RPM and its max boost out put is 32 PSI.

Vortech Supercharger Comparison Chart

ProCharger Supercharger Models

Blower RPM Calculator - 2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club

 

[tistan]

Not to mention that better step up ratio on the procharger is going to have you slinging and shredding belts when you get into higher boost.

 

[Brutal Metal]

Everybody says "OH NO I have to run oil feed and return lines!" Big Fricken Deal it's quite painless! The oil cooler has a threaded fitting you tap into and one punch in the pan, done! My Vote is for Vortech but I agree their both good choices!

 

[bsmith782]

Im not worried about tapping int my oil pan, I actually like the idea better. More cooled oil to the charger, seems good.

 

[97desertCobra]

I heard it from a very reliable source for mustang tuning and equipment specs.

We all know that a P1 becomes very inefficient after 16-18lbs so 32 is completely ludicrous. I don't think I have ever seen a d1 over 20lbs. Have you?

Did that reliable source happen to be a vendor for Vortech? And I got all my info right from the source which is why I supplied a link so you can view for yourself.

I have seen D1SC's running 20+ psi before. But for most people that plan to run that much boost they step up to the F1A or F1C to take advantage of the increased cfm and step up ratio of 5.4.1. and to avoid over spinning the blower. This is why I supplied the link to the blower rpm calculator.

 

[bsmith782]

He is a vendor of pcharger and Vortec.

Thanks for the info.

This right there says that again a d1 is as inefficient at higher boost as a P1.

Did that reliable source happen to be a vendor for Vortech? And I got all my info right from the source which is why I supplied a link so you can view for yourself.

I have seen D1SC's running 20+ psi before. But for most people that plan to run that much boost they step up to the F1A or F1C to take advantage of the increased cfm and step up ratio of 5.4.1. and to avoid over spinning the blower. This is why I supplied the link to the blower rpm calculator.

 

[97desertCobra]

He is a vendor of pcharger and Vortec.

Thanks for the info.

This right there says that again a d1 is as inefficient at higher boost as a P1.

Dude that does not say that the D1SC is just as inefficient as the P1SC, just that for those running in the 20+ range they are trying to take advantage of a blower that flows more cfm! Usually those running 20+ psi are shooting for serious horsepower and more cfm means more horse power per pounds of boost. If stepping up to the F1C at 25# means a 60rwhp(just throwing it our there) gain vs a D1SC at 25# then it makes sense to me to step up to a F1 blower. But the difference in horse power wont be that big at the lower boost levels.

I don't understand, I said the Vortech units are good blowers and they offer a kit to match your horsepower goal. So what ever you want to make horse power wise there is a blower from Vortech that can get you there, It just may take 1 or 2 more psi as opposed to a competing Procharger unit, but who cares about 1 psi? I state some FACTS in my first post and now you are trying to find Procharger to be a lesser blower. I think your mind was already made up before you started this thread. Funny how in your first post you state you only want FACTS and not things you hear. But you HEARD from a guy that Vortech was better, a guy who is a Vendor for Vortech and you are jumping on me? I supplied info from both companies so you could view it for your self and make a educated decision. I don't care what you decide to go with but you wanted info. Sheesh.

 

[bsmith782]

I never said Procharger was a lesser blower just that you clearly pointed out with your F1 comment that a D1 and a P1 become very inefficient at about half their advertised max psi rating.

Its my thread man, if I want to put things I have hear out there and see if there true thats the point of it. You obviously are a Procharger nutswinger, and actually have done more to turn me away from procharger then good because your trying to argue with me in MY thread about shit I have heard.

So please if you want to argue keep it to yourself.

Dude that does not say that the D1SC is just as inefficient as the P1SC, just that for those running in the 20+ range they are trying to take advantage of a blower that flows more cfm! Usually those running 20+ psi are shooting for serious horsepower and more cfm means more horse power per pounds of boost. If stepping up to the F1C at 25# means a 60rwhp(just throwing it our there) gain vs a D1SC at 25# then it makes sense to me to step up to a F1 blower. But the difference in horse power wont be that big at the lower boost levels.

I don't understand, I said the Vortech units are good blowers and they offer a kit to match your horsepower goal. So what ever you want to make horse power wise there is a blower from Vortech that can get you there, It just may take 1 or 2 more psi as opposed to a competing Procharger unit, but who cares about 1 psi? I state some FACTS in my first post and now you are trying to find Procharger to be a lesser blower. I think your mind was already made up before you started this thread. Funny how in your first post you state you only want FACTS and not things you hear. But you HEARD from a guy that Vortech was better, a guy who is a Vendor for Vortech and you are jumping on me? I supplied info from both companies so you could view it for your self and make a educated decision. I don't care what you decide to go with but you wanted info. Sheesh.

 

[04cobradude]

Fact # 1: Procharger flows more cfm than the competing Vortech unit, thus there is potential to make more power at the same boost level with the increase in cfm. Most people do not take advantage of this increase in cfm flow because to take full advantage you need the intake and heads to flow enough cfm to compliment the blower.

Fact # 2: Procharger uses a much more aggresive step up ratio compared to the competing Vortech unit. This helps the blower make more boost in the lower rpms. Again people usually dont take much advantage of this as the step up ratio really starts to show its merit the more boost you are pushing out of the blower.

Some Prochargers have some issues with leaking, however from my own observation it seems that is a more common problem with the P1SC blowers and less a problem with the D1SC and the F1 units.

Either way you go be it Procharger or Vortech each company offers a good kit that will match your horse power goal. I prefer Procharger for my reasons stated and ones already stated. Plus I like the sound they make more than Vortech units and I like the way they look compared to the Vortech units. Only thing I really dont like is the weak braket.

fact #1 you are using the inflated CFM ratings that procharger puts out vs the realistic CFM ratings that vortech releases.. Have you had the blowers checked?? I am sure you would see that the ratings of procharger are inflated and the ratings of vortechs are under inflated.

fact #2 Just because a step up ratio is higher, doesnt mean boost comes in earlier. If you take (crank pulley diameter x step up ratio x rpm) / supercharger pulley diameter, you will see that a pulley change is all that is needed to get the blower RPM you want/need.. also, when you try and spin a higher step-up ratio blower into the HIGH RPM area with a serpentine, you will see severe belt slippage... imagine coming up to a BIG hill on your 10speed bike... do you downshift to 3rd gear or do you upshift to 10th gear... each step-up has their advantage, but you clearly dont understand the differences.