Probably because he said he wants to stay on 93octane pump gas. Good luck pushing 20 plus pounds of boost on that.
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New Supercharger for 2011 w/ bolts ons... Gen 2R or KB?
- Thread starter B.LaCe
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Probably because he said he wants to stay on 93octane pump gas. Good luck pushing 20 plus pounds of boost on that.
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A lot of people would have different opinions.
The TVS is a great supercharger no doubt makes instant torque.
But the Kenny Bell will always make more power at the same boost level period.
If you're trying to make 750 at the wheels on pump 93 I don't think you'll be able to attain that with a TVS.
Every dyno is different so it's hard to tell. Who has what.
But I could tell you that at evolution performance on a mustang Dyno I have never seen a TVS car put down 750 at the Wheels on pump.
My good friend has a TVS with all supporting mods on the car it makes 660 whp on 19lbs.
It still runs 10.30.
I have made 730 at the wheels with my 2.8 on 17 lbs with a lower.
In the end I would get a Kenny Bell and I would probably get the 3.2. Same case size almost same money as the 2.8. Lower engine mounts all fits. I even have the strut bar on.
If you call Fred at Evo he will be able to advise you.
Again the tvs is great, I love it , instant punch BUT KB makes more power same boost.
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VMP Gen II Non R 800hp kit here. VMP Twin 67, 2.4 Upper, 10% Lower, 20-21 lbs at sea level on 93 pump. Running an email tune from VMP. Super conservative on timing, I think only 14 degrees. Option to add a few degrees with some octane booster. No problems and its been nearly 2 years. The car runs strong, and I thrash on it almost every time I take it out. It's a really fun street car. If you don't plan on building the motor, just go with the TVS as it will take you to the limit. Long tubes and a bigger throttle body should get you close if not more than 750.
Is your mechanic trying to sell the KB? Just curious if that's why he's pushing it. Some shops will push you in the direction that puts more money in their pocket.
Can't go wrong either way man. You'll have opinions favoring both, so just get what makes sense for you. You'll have a shit eating grin on your face either way.
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both are good blowers... new tvs can make ~800rwhp ,can make more too, with the 2.8 you can run more boost. You probably want to run ~22lbs of boost with kb and some good octane. tvs makes more tq for sure. check out my thread i have a 2.8kb with built motor just made 860rwhp @20lbs. I'm going to run 25lbs as soon as i finish an issue, might hit 1000.
just roll a dice for it lol
just roll a dice for it lol
These two quotes are exactly what I've been struggling with in my decision. Like GT said: I realize "Mod-for-Mod" the VMPs wont make the horsepower that the larger blowers will (and Whipple is still a consideration). It's not that money is the biggest factor, either. This time last week I had settled on a KB 3.6LC. I'm wavering because I like the low end torque of the VMPs. Plus, at their price-point, I'm saving thousands that will immediately be reinvested into the car.
Nobody buys one of these cars (then starts modding it, no less) because they wanna be slow. But, with the KB/Whipple, I think I may be chasing a HP number that I really don't even need. I don't drag race or autocross... i really don't need a blower capable of 1,xxx RWHP. I need the most reliable (upgraded) blower for a stock bottom end, that will reach my goal of 750RWHP. If it matters: Before I built the motor, I would be buying a new car! Like i said, my stock blower is F'ed! I'd like to get a reliable setup for a summer or two, then sell my car in for a newer Shelby or something else. Thanks for all the help so far!
Sounds to me that the best blower for your needs is the GenIIR
Why do you want so much low end torque, OP? GT500s are notoriously bad at putting the power down on the low end to begin with. Why exacerbate the problem with a mountain of torque at tip in? If money indeed isn't an issue, I definitely recommend putting the upgraded Whipple 2.9 in the running. With the larger blower, it'll be less stressed for the power you want and still have a lot of headroom for when you inevitably want more, and it will still be less stressed.
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If the OP isn't drag racing, where is he going to use all the top end power from a KB/whipple? Unless he wants numbers for bragging rights it seems useless and not cost effective. TVS is cheaper, easier/cheaper to install and gets him well above what he needs power wise.
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What Kenne Belle has failed to do is compare a later version of the TVS. This was the original Ford Racing TVS, which has gone through several substantial iterations at the hands of VMP. Not only that, this chart is intentionally deceptive. A TVS will make 18 psi at 17,750 rpm at 6,000 engine rpm with a 2.4" upper and stock lower. Even at 7,000 engine rpm, blower rpm is 20,708 rpm. Where they get 22,000 rpm at 18 psi, just baffles the crap out of me. I bet at the phantom 22,000 rpm, it is making some serious hot air. Makes you wonder what else they lie about. Bet that chart sold a lot of Kenne Bell's though.
And another thing, peak power doesn't mean crap if you only peak after 5,500 rpm or even 6,000, especially on a stock lower end. Your engine doesn't stay at 5,500 during a pull. If a TVS is making bigger numbers below 5,500, how does it all even out? On a pull you're going to drop down to 4,000 or 4,500 rpm depending on gearing and shift points. Look at average horsepower or torque though the 4,000 to 6,000 rpm, or whatever rpm range you experience at WOT. If the big blower is out of it's efficiency range at these lower rpms and only pushing 15 psi, when the TVS is making 18 psi, it's going to even things out. Start looking a dyno charts people have posted, you'll see what I'm talking about.
If you're running E85 or high octane race gas with some aggressive cams and you aren't limited to 18 psi, this is where the bigger blowers might do you some good. On the street, give me torque, please.
I've ran most of the setups and currently have a whipple 2.9 but to me it's more streetable. Also like the fact you can run an upper only with plenty of boost. With the tvs i had to run a dr on the street all the time. The whipple makes more whp and less torque which does hook a little easier. I will say this, the tvs install was Way easier, so was tuning it. Really they will all make you happy.
Positive displacement blowers don't "build" boost. The boost hits almost as soon as you go WOT and stays there throughout the pull. There might be some small fluctuations, but the boost is pretty even throughout the entire WOT run.
There is no peak and falloff like an NA engine. It keeps making power until you hit the rev limiter or the supercharger is past its efficiency range. Also, it's not like Whipple and KB don't make torque down low. There's more than enough to blow off the tires. Also, that loops me back around to the pulley-for-pulley issue. How many 2.9 Whipple/2.8 KB are running a 2.4" pulley? It's probably safe to say none or not many. Pulley-for-pulley, the bigger blowers are going to make more low end torque.
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There is no peak and falloff like an NA engine. It keeps making power until you hit the rev limiter or the supercharger is past its efficiency range. Also, it's not like Whipple and KB don't make torque down low. There's more than enough to blow off the tires. Also, that loops me back around to the pulley-for-pulley issue. How many 2.9 Whipple/2.8 KB are running a 2.4" pulley? It's probably safe to say none or not many. Pulley-for-pulley, the bigger blowers are going to make more low end torque.
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I went from a trinity tvs to a whipple 2.9 all else being the same including timing. At just 16psi the tvs with a 2.4 made 640/650 and the whipple with a 3.125 made 660/610 but imagine how much slower the whipple was being spun. The gen2 might make 10/10 more at that boost maybe. You decide which is better.
I do. Plug selection and tune makes that completely possible and safe.
Get a monoblade. I'm making over 700rw with 2.4 upper, stock lower, Gen 2 with a CJ monoblade. I picked up 25 rwhp swapping from a VMP twin 67 to a FRPP SCJ with no other changes.
I would also be curios to know if Kenne Belle conveniently left out details on if their SC all featured their Liquid Cooling or not. In addition to the intercooler setup on our cars, of course a liquid cooler in the blower itself would help discharge temps.
Im also a little skeptical about the objectivty of the tests. Considering KB has an interest to set up their numbers to look head and shoulders better than a direct threat to their profits like a TVS based SC.
Again, if im setting up a car for all out drag racing im going twin turbo and 6R80. Any supercharger is going to be vastly inefficient compared to a turbo setup. Hell there is a reason why huge power cars are either turbo or on monstrous nitrous hits. Say what you want about Street outlaws, but I have never seen any cars there running a blower.
A Gen 2R TVS will provide op torque where he needs it on the street for just over half the cost of a big Whipple or KB setup. If he wants more power he can spend $1200 bucks and get a nitrous plate system and be over 1000hp. He would STILL be under the cost of the Whipple or KB setup.
*edit* Street Outlaw Murder Nova was running a Procharger and has recently switched to a turbo setup. Pointed out by ben.
Im also a little skeptical about the objectivty of the tests. Considering KB has an interest to set up their numbers to look head and shoulders better than a direct threat to their profits like a TVS based SC.
Again, if im setting up a car for all out drag racing im going twin turbo and 6R80. Any supercharger is going to be vastly inefficient compared to a turbo setup. Hell there is a reason why huge power cars are either turbo or on monstrous nitrous hits. Say what you want about Street outlaws, but I have never seen any cars there running a blower.
A Gen 2R TVS will provide op torque where he needs it on the street for just over half the cost of a big Whipple or KB setup. If he wants more power he can spend $1200 bucks and get a nitrous plate system and be over 1000hp. He would STILL be under the cost of the Whipple or KB setup.
*edit* Street Outlaw Murder Nova was running a Procharger and has recently switched to a turbo setup. Pointed out by ben.
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The TVS will provide him more torque than he needs on the street on the low end. Not sure why TVS guys brag about low end torque that can't even be used effectively on the street. On a prepped drag strip, sure. On the street, it just makes bad traction even worse. And, again, it's not like Whipple/KB don't make torque down low.
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Lol, what? Murder Nova got e-famous; pre-street Outlaws, running a Centri. I saw that car street race in NO and run at Belle Rose years before street outlaws....running a centri. And regarding the OK boys, they aren't a very tech savvy group, by and large. From what I've seen, they pretty much use what a vendor convinces them to.
Of course a turbo is inherently more efficient, but poor turbo selection can make or break a combo, and fabbing and/or installing a turbo kit is a helluva lot more involved (and expensive) than swapping a supercharger on a GT500.
You can find KB 2.8 LC Mammoth for a decent price compared to a Gen 2R TVS, and install is fairly comparable. The KB will make significantly more power pulley for pulley and fuel for fuel.
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