Natural gas generators for failover power

[moddestmike]

Any of you guys have setups like this on your home? Entertaining the idea of buying a house in the country and the area is far more prone to power outages due to hurricanes than inner Houston where i currently reside. I'd like to be able failover to the generator in the event the power goes out. Again, I haven't made a purchase yet just want to know how feasible it would be to do so. Would it also be powerful enough to run a 40x40 workshop out back also? How many Kw would I need to power a 1600-1800sqr ft home?

Here are some of the ones I've been considering.

Model #76020ATS400-Briggs & Stratton IntelliGEN Series 30kW Natural Gas Liquid Cooled Standby Generator, Briggs & Stratton Liquid Cooled Home Generator, Natural Gas/Propane Liquid Cooled Generators, GM Engine Series 30kw Generator,Briggs & Stratton

Generac Liquid-Cooled 25kW Natural Gas Generator QT02515ANSX NEW on eBay!

 

[VenomousSVT]

i work for a high voltage electrical company that specializes in power generation and switchgear. The only real difference in a natural gas genset and a diesel or a gasoline for that matter is the fuel supply. You can convert a gas engine to a natural gas setup fairly easily, the engine will run all the same. You size the generator side of the genset for your needs, regardless of what the fuel supply is on the engine. a 500kw generator is 500kw of power, regardless of what fuels it.

I am also BTW a generac Dealer

 

[VenomousSVT]

also want to add.... personally I would do natural gas over diesel or gasoline because of the upkeep being easier. You will need to run the generator every now and again and I'd say run it under load on the shop every 3-6 months for 30 minutes. You wont have the upkeep with natural gas as you do it diesel though which is nice.. no gummy carbs from gasoline, no injector failures like on a diesel, and NO FUEL POLISHING from diesel that has been sitting and gotten contaminated.

something else yet to consider....

definitely go with a quality ATS. You can get an affordable ASCO ATS that will be easy to hook up and maintain and it will do the job nicely.. You dont want to have to manually start and transfer the load of your shop over in the event of a failure

 

[moddestmike]

also want to add.... personally I would do natural gas over diesel or gasoline because of the upkeep being easier. You will need to run the generator every now and again and I'd say run it under load on the shop every 3-6 months for 30 minutes. You wont have the upkeep with natural gas as you do it diesel though which is nice.. no gummy carbs from gasoline, no injector failures like on a diesel, and NO FUEL POLISHING from diesel that has been sitting and gotten contaminated.

something else yet to consider....

definitely go with a quality ATS. You can get an affordable ASCO ATS that will be easy to hook up and maintain and it will do the job nicely.. You dont want to have to manually start and transfer the load of your shop over in the event of a failure

Thanks man, Generac seems to be the way to go. Also, would I be able to hook the generator directly to the gas pipeline? Most houses where I'm looking have gas lines for stove\heat, etc....

 

[VenomousSVT]

Thanks man, Generac seems to be the way to go. Also, would I be able to hook the generator directly to the gas pipeline? Most houses where I'm looking have gas lines for stove\heat, etc....

a gad man would have to do the install of the line but essentially yes

and generac makes good stuff on their larger units their small portable stuff i'd rather own a honda or yamaha. Also generac sells ATS's as well and they dont make them, they are made by ASCO, Zenith. Russelectric is by far the best, but the most complex and pricey.. but definitely the most reliable. But coming from someone that services ATS's the Zenith, ASCO switches are gonna be the easiest to work with for a normal person

 

[SID297]

That 30kw Briggs should work great for you. I like that it uses a Chevy Colorado engine, should make it easier to maintain.

 

[CobraBob]

Any estimates on the total cost of a whole-house setup? I know a friend of mine recently did one (runs off propane) and it was pretty expensive. Just curious as I didn't ask him how much he paid.

 

[moddestmike]

a gad man would have to do the install of the line but essentially yes

and generac makes good stuff on their larger units their small portable stuff i'd rather own a honda or yamaha. Also generac sells ATS's as well and they dont make them, they are made by ASCO, Zenith. Russelectric is by far the best, but the most complex and pricey.. but definitely the most reliable. But coming from someone that services ATS's the Zenith, ASCO switches are gonna be the easiest to work with for a normal person

Gotcha. Lastly, is there some sort of digital metering device that can be installed in the home to display pressure, current capacity,etc? I'm basically looking for a solution that'll allow for most of the same conveniences in a natural disasters as I would ordinarily have.

 

[moddestmike]

Any estimates on the total cost of a whole-house setup? I know a friend of mine recently did one (runs off propane) and it was pretty expensive. Just curious as I didn't ask him how much he paid.

I'm not too sure but just estimating on a high end ATS and Genset I'm looking at 13-18k but it balances out as the houses are all cheaper than what I pay in rent by almost 60%. Not to mention the value added.

 

[VenomousSVT]

Gotcha. Lastly, is there some sort of digital metering device that can be installed in the home to display pressure, current capacity,etc? I'm basically looking for a solution that'll allow for most of the same conveniences in a natural disasters as I would ordinarily have.

there are plenty of those and generac relabels one themselves.. CAT has one that too expensive ect... there are 2 ways of doing it.. the old school way which is cheaper but mechanical like most of the hospitals do.. or the way that I do which is what I do with our company.. i do DSE modifications to generators and ATS's which takes the mechanical metering off and install a control panel for auto starting the genset, metering the power output, oil pressure,frequency the whole 9. their site is Deep Sea Electronics

the old way is called relay logic, the new stuff is controlled by PLC (programmable logic controllers)

 

[VenomousSVT]

I'm not too sure but just estimating on a high end ATS and Genset I'm looking at 13-18k but it balances out as the houses are all cheaper than what I pay in rent by almost 60%. Not to mention the value added.

also def make a decision on single phase or 3 phase.. and then if 3 phase decide 3 wire of 4 wire. and voltages you want... 480/208 ect. Keep in mind the higher the voltage the lesser the amperage.. for example in single phase a 20 amp circuit on 110 would only be a 10 amp circuit on 220

 

[03Sssnake]

I have experience with both, not for the home though. I had Generac installed at the last place I worked to protect the office and server room, it has been a good unit, believe it was around 70kw, not for sure though, its been a while. For the server room at my new job and new site, went for a Kohler also around 70kw. Much nicer unit, exhaust goes out the top of the unit, instead of the back like Generac. Much quieter as well and overall construction just seems nicer and well thought out. I know they make smaller units for homes, the contractor that put in the one for our server room has a kohler out at his house. I recall him saying he could install one for my house around 10-15K in all.

 

[03Sssnake]

also def make a decision on single phase or 3 phase.. and then if 3 phase decide 3 wire of 4 wire. and voltages you want... 480/208 ect. Keep in mind the higher the voltage the lesser the amperage.. for example in single phase a 20 amp circuit on 110 would only be a 10 amp circuit on 220

Yep, we brought it in at 480 and stepped down to 220 for the server room. You don't have to use as much wire at the higher voltages, we had to put our genset on top floor of the parking garage, it was a pretty good run to our office, running 480 to the suite saved 6-7K in wire alone :beer:

 

[VenomousSVT]

Yep, we brought it in at 480 and stepped down to 220 for the server room. You don't have to use as much wire at the higher voltages, we had to put our genset on top floor of the parking garage, it was a pretty good run to our office, running 480 to the suite saved 6-7K in wire alone :beer:

:beer::beer:

 

[FordSVTFan]

Any of you guys have setups like this on your home? Entertaining the idea of buying a house in the country and the area is far more prone to power outages due to hurricanes than inner Houston where i currently reside. I'd like to be able failover to the generator in the event the power goes out. Again, I haven't made a purchase yet just want to know how feasible it would be to do so. Would it also be powerful enough to run a 40x40 workshop out back also? How many Kw would I need to power a 1600-1800sqr ft home?

Here are some of the ones I've been considering.

Model #76020ATS400-Briggs & Stratton IntelliGEN Series 30kW Natural Gas Liquid Cooled Standby Generator, Briggs & Stratton Liquid Cooled Home Generator, Natural Gas/Propane Liquid Cooled Generators, GM Engine Series 30kw Generator,Briggs & Stratton

Generac Liquid-Cooled 25kW Natural Gas Generator QT02515ANSX NEW on eBay!

I have that exact Generac 25kw running on natural gas with built in transfer which and battery startup.

 

[YJSONLY]

I am a generac dealer have been for 8 years. As far as size you need to pull an amp test with everything on or a load calculation for the correct size. After all you will be putting a whole house transfer switch if you put to much load on the generator could damage or code out because of the load (they do have load shed ats switches which shed power to prioritize high usage appliance's ie: a/c, well, water heater etc. they cost a littile more but could save you from buying a bigger generator). Gas can be ran to it off the meter your meter might have to be upgraded by the utility company. Any gas guy can handle the piping that is needed. As far as the ATS use whatever the company you buy has. I know there is a way to say take a Briggs ats and make it work with a generac but why void your warranty for more headache.

 

[tistan]

I have built a few homes with 25kw backup generators. Most of them were on natural gas. The setup I liked best was the house we built for the head of the ER. In the event of a hurricane, he cannot leave like most people. If there ever was a hurricane and flooding, one of the things that would be turned of is the natural gas lines going to the islands. We buried a 1000 gallon propane tank in his yard and that is what fuels his generator. He has a 6,000sqft home and all of it is on backup generator. I am pretty sure he bought a 45kw and 1000 gallons is supposed to be enough to fuel his entire home for over 2 weeks.

 

[jcthorne]

I have a Generac 15kw air cooled unit. Natural gas powered and installed in 2006 right after Rita came through Houston. When Ike hit, the unit provided power to our home for 13 days 24/7. We have a 2700 sqft home with 7tons of AC and it ran both units, full kitchen, lights etc. You do have to select which loads go on the standby breaker panel and which do not. For us, it was the garage AC, the welding outlet and air compressor in the garage, a 240v large oven in the kitchen and the hot tub that are not on the gen set. By dropping those loads from the requirement, I was able to install the 15kw unit for approx $6k installed cost. Full house would have been 25kw at about tripple the cost.

We were suprised at the cost of installing the gas line. Cost 2k just for that. Needs a 1 inch line that supports 300,000 btu of gas. Most homes do not have a meter or regulator that large although the piping from the main is usually large enough due to the higher pressure in the distribution line. We did not need a new regulator, just a new line from the meter to the gen set.

Gen set came with the ATS and fully automated controls. Even exercises the unit weekly for 15 minutes. Has been very reliable and still works great. Only maintainance has been annual oil changes (2 qts and a filter) and a new battery every 3rd year. The newer units use aluminum enclosures that eliminate the rust at the bottom of our steel enclosure. Its just looks but a nice improvement.

 

[CobraBob]

I'm not too sure but just estimating on a high end ATS and Genset I'm looking at 13-18k but it balances out as the houses are all cheaper than what I pay in rent by almost 60%. Not to mention the value added.

That sounds about what he paid. I wish I could afford it, but we don't lose power for an extended period often enough for it to be worth the big investment. It does add value to the house, but up here I don't think it is a big factor with a new buyer. I can see it being of more value in a situation where a small shop (used daily) is involved where downtime is critical.

 

[ff500]

I don't think you'd need a 30K or 25K genset, unless everything in your home is electric, like range, dryer, hot water. I know it gets hot down there so you would have central a/c.
When Irene hit we lost power for a week, I hooked up my 8500W honda and it powered my home for a week, the highest amperage draw I got was 24 amps, it averaged about 11 amps.
Home Depot has a section on their website about generators, there's a lot of helpful info that may help you decide on your needs.