Maximum Motorsports S197 K-Member
- Thread starter Tob
- Start date
Bump for update
Evasive,
I have been updating this thread as new parts for the MM k-member become available. This was only done in response to SVTPerformance members who asked me to do so in posts #157, #159, #168, by PM, by e-mail and phone calls. About two weeks ago, I found out, from a third party, that my posts and responses to them from others had been deleted because they were "close to being advertisements".
This is not the first time that my posts have been deleted, without even the courtesy of a basic notification, when they apparently conflict with the owner's or moderator's commercial interests. The BBS rules state that the Board has the right to delete or edit any posts that they want for any reason. I agreed to these rules when I signed up.
I have been updating this thread as new parts for the MM k-member become available. This was only done in response to SVTPerformance members who asked me to do so in posts #157, #159, #168, by PM, by e-mail and phone calls. About two weeks ago, I found out, from a third party, that my posts and responses to them from others had been deleted because they were "close to being advertisements".
This is not the first time that my posts have been deleted, without even the courtesy of a basic notification, when they apparently conflict with the owner's or moderator's commercial interests. The BBS rules state that the Board has the right to delete or edit any posts that they want for any reason. I agreed to these rules when I signed up.
So at this point, I'm assuming the additional components of this system are vaporware. Pity, since I love the K member design.
Saw a new article and video regarding this K-member at:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...ximizing-front-grip-with-maximum-motorsports/
and
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/DRIVE-Video-Tuner-Car-Shootout.aspx
and searched SVTP for this thread. Great info from all.
It is strange that given this new article and relatively new video and additional info provided by MM in response to it, that the additional components are not yet available.
With respect to reinforcing the rear mounting location, I wonder if my installation of the Steeda Jacking Rails has the side benefit of providing such reinforcement?
https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s197-mustang-jacking-rails.html
And also wondering if that compromises Ford's crash test design.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...ximizing-front-grip-with-maximum-motorsports/
and
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/DRIVE-Video-Tuner-Car-Shootout.aspx
and searched SVTP for this thread. Great info from all.
It is strange that given this new article and relatively new video and additional info provided by MM in response to it, that the additional components are not yet available.
With respect to reinforcing the rear mounting location, I wonder if my installation of the Steeda Jacking Rails has the side benefit of providing such reinforcement?
https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s197-mustang-jacking-rails.html
And also wondering if that compromises Ford's crash test design.
It's possible. Manufacturers are now trying to make it so that, in the case of a head-on collision, the engine breaks away and goes under the car rather than intrude into the passenger compartment. For track rats worried about deformity of that mount point, I'd recommend either caging the car or using less sticky tires.
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- Jul 4, 2017
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I don't suppose anyone here has any suggestions on setting the roll center on a BMR Watts Link to balance well with this K member?
The roll center height in the rear doesn't really affect the steady state handling balance. It almost entirely affects the transient handling balance. It does this because it changes the rate at which lateral weight transfer happens across the rear tires. The higher up the RC is (closer to the CG, so creates a smaller roll couple), the faster the weight transfer occurs. This makes the slip angle in the rear tires of the car develop more quickly, so the car will be looser on turn in. Once the lateral weight transfer has stabilized, the car's handling balance will be the same.
If the RC is lowered, then the weight transfers across the rear tires more slowly. This makes the car understeer more on turn in.
If the RC is lowered, then the weight transfers across the rear tires more slowly. This makes the car understeer more on turn in.
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- Jul 4, 2017
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OK, so does that mean the rear suspension will unwind faster on corner exit with a higher RC, getting weight on both tires sooner, allowing for more throttle sooner? If so, then what I am looking to "balance" with the rear RC is the trade-off of turn in vs throttle out, not front/rear grip? (This is all very new to me, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions)
During different phases of the corner, there is different weight transfer going on.
At first, the car is just braking. At this point, there is longitudinal weight transfer. This is weight from both rear tires is moving onto both front tires. As you start turning into the corner, you release the brakes some. The brake release causes longitudinal weight transfer from the front tires to the back tires. The steering input causes lateral weight transfer from both inside tires to both outside tires.
The percentage of front and rear lateral weight transfer that happens over time is a complex function of the damper valving, roll center heights and several other things.
Once the car is at the apex of the corner, all lateral weight transfer has stopped. The weight on the inside tires and on the outside tires has stopped changing. It is fixed at that point. Because of this, the dampers and roll center heights have virtually no affect on the cars cornering balance at that point. All that matters are the springs, swaybars, tire sizes and alignment.
After the apex of the corner, you start applying the throttle and unwinding the steering wheel. This causes longitudinal weight transfer back onto the rear tires and lateral weight transfer from the outside tires back to the inside tires. Again the dampers and roll center heights determine how quickly the lateral weight transfer happens at each end of the car.
Once the steering wheel is straight, there is no change in lateral weights.
The roll center height affects the handling anytime that the steering wheel is being turned. Once the steering angle is fixed, the car should have reached a steady state roll angle, so the roll center height does not affect the handling.
My comments in post #191 also apply to when the steering wheel is unwinding coming out of the corner. With a higher rear roll center, the weight will untransfer laterally across the rear tires more quickly. This will give the car more rear tire grip at this point in the corner. That grip can be used to get on the throttle more quickly.
A lower rear roll center will slow down the untransfer of weight across the rear axle. The driver will then need to get on the throttle more slowly to keep from spinning the rear tires.
This is all a very complicated situation as there are multiple affects all going on at the same time.
At first, the car is just braking. At this point, there is longitudinal weight transfer. This is weight from both rear tires is moving onto both front tires. As you start turning into the corner, you release the brakes some. The brake release causes longitudinal weight transfer from the front tires to the back tires. The steering input causes lateral weight transfer from both inside tires to both outside tires.
The percentage of front and rear lateral weight transfer that happens over time is a complex function of the damper valving, roll center heights and several other things.
Once the car is at the apex of the corner, all lateral weight transfer has stopped. The weight on the inside tires and on the outside tires has stopped changing. It is fixed at that point. Because of this, the dampers and roll center heights have virtually no affect on the cars cornering balance at that point. All that matters are the springs, swaybars, tire sizes and alignment.
After the apex of the corner, you start applying the throttle and unwinding the steering wheel. This causes longitudinal weight transfer back onto the rear tires and lateral weight transfer from the outside tires back to the inside tires. Again the dampers and roll center heights determine how quickly the lateral weight transfer happens at each end of the car.
Once the steering wheel is straight, there is no change in lateral weights.
The roll center height affects the handling anytime that the steering wheel is being turned. Once the steering angle is fixed, the car should have reached a steady state roll angle, so the roll center height does not affect the handling.
My comments in post #191 also apply to when the steering wheel is unwinding coming out of the corner. With a higher rear roll center, the weight will untransfer laterally across the rear tires more quickly. This will give the car more rear tire grip at this point in the corner. That grip can be used to get on the throttle more quickly.
A lower rear roll center will slow down the untransfer of weight across the rear axle. The driver will then need to get on the throttle more slowly to keep from spinning the rear tires.
This is all a very complicated situation as there are multiple affects all going on at the same time.
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Just ordered a K member and Bumpsteer kit with a cyber Monday discount! It wasn't a huge discount, but it will buy enough Motul 660 to flush my brakes!
Not to hi-jack this thread, but you mentioned Motul 660. If that is synthetic brake fluid, I am pretty sure that when I flushed my system a couple of years ago that when I researched brake fluid for my 2008, synthetic was not recommended for ABS systems. If Motul 660 is 100% synthetic, and you have found that it is acceptable to use in an ABS system, please link some info. on this.
***Note - And I could be mixing up synthetic and silicone? One is not recommended for ABS. I am always looking for brake fluid that does not absorb water.
Thanks, Robert
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Robert
I think you are mixing up silicon and synthetic. IIRC Dot 5 is not recommended. I have synthetic in mine now with no problems. Of course I have not had to use the ABS as yet.
I think you are mixing up silicon and synthetic. IIRC Dot 5 is not recommended. I have synthetic in mine now with no problems. Of course I have not had to use the ABS as yet.
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- Jul 4, 2017
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My understanding is that dot 5 doesn't play well with others, but everything else is gtg.
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^^^That is probably right.
I wish that there was a brake fluid that we could use that does not absorb moisture. It would be so nice to not have the brake system rusting from the inside out.......................Symptom: Brake fluid discoloring and turning dark color. Also affects the clutch hyd. system which shares the same contaminated fluid on our cars.
R
Tob - I just want to verify the engine support method..........You attached that MM brace/bracket to the inner strut studs and then supported the engine with straps through the headers/manifolds and then removed the K-member and supported the engine on a jack while doing the header install? And once the headers were in place the straps could be reinstalled to support the engine while the K-member install was completed?
Is that the procedure?
R
Is that the procedure?
R
You can't remove or install headers with the strap under the engine. I'f your going to install header with the K-member dropped, you're going to need to support the engine from the bottom with a jack of some sort. I used a block of wood to distribute the load along the base of the oil pan.
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