Are you saying a fox has to be a gutted, tubbed out race car to go fast? There are foxes on this forum that run 8s on 17inch wheels and tires in full street trim driven to and from the track. They're light to begin with, gutting them isn't necessary.
Edit: Here is a link
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...al-best-8-87-160-77-17-inch-drag-radials.html
If you think fbodys are cheap to build, you should see what can be done for the money using an old Fox roller.
no im not saying that at ALL!
i absolutely hate when people say "on AVERAGE" or "the MAJORITY of the time" (meaning not always) and i even said there is always "that one"... and then they go find 3-4 they know of and say.. look at this, your wrong.. :lol1:
what im saying is... MOST people that build 302/347s/351s... dont build them to the entire potential AT ALL! regardless of money invested.. i know people with 10k in their 347s running low 8s@mid low-mid 80mph.. that, to me, is pitiful..
can you make them fast? HELL YES! do people usually.. no..
i know what can be done and how cheap they are... but fbodys are right there with them nowadays if you know what your doing..
My point is it takes a lot more work to make a heads/cam/intake goat run low 11s then it does an already blown Cobra that is lighter. A Cobra is already at an advantage stock. Add simple bolt-ons and a Cobra will make 450rwhp+ and STILL WEIGH LESS. A lot of the arguing is about which car does better in terms of modifications. Look at that bolt-on e.t list for Cobras, well into the 11s@120-123mph+, then look at the bolt-on list for GTOs. Forget the whole, "but it's N/A and you're blown" argument. Like I said, that's what this platform is all about, no amount of bickering is going to change how these cars came from the factory. Mod for mod the Cobra has an upper hand, at the drag strip or anywhere else. Nitrous is kind of a universal factor, both cars LOVE the gas if you're willing to go that route.
i was talking more about any fbody... i never said anything about them being S/C from factory and lsx not.. i think its completely fair.. and after modding begins, in my eyes it doesnt really give them an advantage at all.. like i said, i have NEVER been threatened by a cobra.. i run as fast on motor as some of the fastest ported pullied cobras, and faster than pobably 95% of them..
do i have a stalled a4? yes... do i have 410s on a 26 inch slick? yes.. but thats the platform im building on... so you cant say "well your more geared for that" because if people are shooting for fast times, they should be geared towards that also..
The fastest bolt-on LS2 GTO doesn't even come within 10mph and 7 tenths of the fastest bolt-on Cobra, (and that's just with a upper pulley, exhaust, intake and tune, no headers, no gears, no rockers needed).
it may not... but i bet the fastest bolt on ls1 does... and probably faster.. thats more what im geared towards.. could care less what gtos do honestly.. not many people race them.. this list is stock internals.. no cam no heads etc..
# RUQWIKR -------- 10.685 @ 122.91 (1.37), 01 Formula T400, ATI4600, 4.56, 3060, 03/08
# Project_SS ----- 10.866 @ 122.14 (1.45), 98 Camaro SS A4, TCI4400, 3.73, 2840, 03/07
# Magnus --------- 10.987 @ 119.31 (1.42), 97 Firebird A4, YPT4400, 4.10, 2920, 12/04
# Skelton -------- 11.088 @ 119.10 (1.44), 01 Formula A3, CN4800, 4.10, 3150, 02/09
# 1BAD98LS1 ------ 11.089 @ 120.62 (1.47), 98 Formula A4, YTP4000, 3.89, 3070, 11/07
# Hawkn01 -------- 11.256 @ 118.48 (1.52), 01 Firehawk A4, TCS4200, 3.73, 3086, 03/04
# SilentbutViolent 11.302 @ 117.84 (1.52), 98 Camaro Z28 A4, YTP4600, 3.73, 3128, 11/04
# V6 Bird -------- 11.322 @ 118.67 (1.53), 01 Formula A4, YTP4000, 3.23, 3170, 11/02
# Matt D --------- 11.421 @ 116.24 (1.47), 99 Camaro Z28 A4, YPT4400, 3.73, 3100, 11/07
# ATwelveSec02Z28 11.424 @ 119.26 (1.53), 02 Camaro Z28 M6, RAM, 4.56, 3300, 12/06
Once again, no need to take it personal. The GTO is just a different animal, it's a much larger more comfortable car. However, the fact that it weighs more and puts down less power stock & modded puts it at a performance disadvantage.
i dont take it personal.. i dont own one.. it may be at a disadvantage.. but im not.. :burnout:
I've OWNED both cars, and I've been a member on the LS1 forums for way longer than I've been a member here. I'm simply stating that how a car is setup makes FAR more of a difference than the motor itself. I completely disagree that a GTO is somehow a superior drag car because it has an LSX motor. These are BOTH heavy cars with an IRS, and they both have tons of examples of slow ETs for the power made. Cobras make 450-500rwhp+ so easily that often people make the power but don't even bother upgrading tires, springs, stock clutch quadrants, etc. The only GTOs running more consistently are the auto GTOs with a stall, (and that's universal for any platform).
the cobra didnt come with an auto.. so i dont see it that way... if it came with an auto, that would be different.. if its that.. you could go back to the ghey argument of "what if the gto had a supercharger".... but it didnt..
I've seen PLENTY of GTOs do the same. Put a full weight car with a lot of power, tricky IRS, street tires, soft suspension, 6spd and that's the end result. We can sit here all day posting examples of poorly running GTOs and Cobras, there are PLENTY of 450rwhp+ GTOs running mid 12s and up. It would only show how a poorly setup car with a bad driver effects times, I think we both know their true capabilities.
i believe there are more "built" cobras running sad times than the LSX bunch of any make/model..
Look above, if people want to setup their cars to run from a dig these cars are PERFECTLY capable of doing it!
if they are at the track... thats what matters.. i have bone stock suspension... people would consider that not setup for drag racing.. i cut 1.5s fish tailing..
like i said, wasnt really concentrating on gtos..The fact is 99% of GTO owners running mid 10s will have WAY more in their cars than that. I know a shitload of people with cam/bolt-on nitrous LS1s, (including myself!), $2K isn't even close to what I spent and 99.9% of the people spend. Not everyone puts $300 used hooker headers and does the labor themselves. Not everyone can tear apart their own engines and add JUST a cam with no supporting mods like valve springs & retainers.
not saying you dont know anyhing.. but i took my time when modding and knew exactly what i wanted and what would run good.. it worked, and i havnt spent much money at all.. you could call it dirt cheap..
i got a brand new set of pacesetters... its not my fault if people want to spend 1k on headers..
i added springs lifters... i have an MS4.. didnt have much of a choice.. also not my fault if someone has to pay for their work..
Nice set of stainless long tube headers like kooks or similar + mid-pipe + installation = $1200
Cam, retainers, springs, flycut pistons? + install from a reputable shop = $900
Intake, Catback, Tune, Drag Wheel + Tires, Suspension, Nitrous kit = $2,000+
Fast 90/90 intake, stall, clutch, gears, etc = :read:
but that is all options.. you dont HAVE to pay that.. you can go just as fast,faster for MUCH MUCH less money...
if you want to do that why not just do this..
wheels/tires... 2k... you gotta get bogarts...
headers=700 gotta have stainless coated
intake ported fast 92/92 cause a fast 90/90 wont cut it
gotta have a catback like magnaflow or borla cause race cars run better with those than with a cutout or xpipe dumped before axle
suspension= might as well go 4link for about 6k, you might need it one day..
i mean come man.. not being an ass.. but those are retarded prices.. anyone that just wants to go fast is NOT going to pay that much for most of that..
if you can build it to go fast/faster for half or 1/3 the money (another perk to these cars as mentioned) why wouldnt you?
Yeah, not having a cage really keeps me from dialing in the car. I can usually only make one pass before kicking me off. I think that on my KB setup with the race tune in (24 psi w/ 100 octane) she would've run 10.5 or quicker. With the turbo's, I haven't even tuned a race tune yet. Scary thing is, I think she'll run 9 on pump. The power is just unreal.
that sucks you cant get a solid night of running in.. hope you do sonner than later.