Lethal Performance 1200rwhp Return System and 105lb Injectors In Action!

[black03]

I have your 850whp return system running e85 with just a KB 2.2. Happy with the results, but man the instructions were so wrong and there were fittings missing that I had to buy locally. But I do know I was one of the first to receive the new-style fuel hats. The kit even provided two caps for the fuel rails, which of course are not needed for return style. Any chance of getting some credit or something for the money I had to spend to complete the build?

Thanks and I'm glad the system is working well for you. Did you contact us about the missing fittings or confusion on the installation instructions when you were installing it? I'm sure we would have been able to clear it up for you at that point. If you didn't contact us and just went ahead and purchased fittings on your own as well as installed it a different way then how we designed it to be installed there's not much we can do.

The kit using 2 caps on the rails is actually correct. It's a dead head setup which we've been running with great success for years on several of our cars. That's maybe where some of the confusion you had could have easily been cleared up with a phone call. Again I'm not sure if you called or not but if you did it would have been resolved immediately.

The diagram for how the kit needs to be installed is located in our installation section linked below. It's listed as SN95 Dual Return Style Fuel System Diagram.

Installation Documents

It even has part numbers on it which correspond with the checklist you receive with the kit. We provide all of the parts needed to do the install like this. If you try to install the kit any other way than that then yes you'll be short on fittings.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks, Jared

 

[da28fan]

Hi Jared. Sally was helping me with this. He called and emailed several times with a list of missing parts. You actually mailed me a second complete wiring harness, which we didn't need but I just have not returned yet, as I was waiting until we were completely done. We had to use a 90 degree 8an to 10an adapter on the y block. So I bought a straight one. The fuel regulator connection diagram does not show using caps and conflicts with the lethal instructions. Sally actually rewrote the directions, but I don't know if he ever sent them to you. He also used some of his own fittings on the regulator. I still have them if you are interested.

 

[black03]

Hi Jared. Sally was helping me with this. He called and emailed several times with a list of missing parts. You actually mailed me a second complete wiring harness, which we didn't need but I just have not returned yet, as I was waiting until we were completely done. We had to use a 90 degree 8an to 10an adapter on the y block. So I bought a straight one. The fuel regulator connection diagram does not show using caps and conflicts with the lethal instructions. Sally actually rewrote the directions, but I don't know if he ever sent them to you. He also used some of his own fittings on the regulator. I still have them if you are interested.

I believe that both Matt and Christy were working on this so I'll have to have both of them speak about this and figure it out on Monday. From what I understand you or the shop working on your car believed they were missing some components. So which we shipped them to you overnight and still have yet to receive the original parts you were shipped even though we provided a return label. We were also told you were missing the entire wire harness which now turns out not to be the case.

As far as the system goes it installs exactly how it's show in the diagram. I run the same system on my own 03 and we've sold hundred of systems which all install the same way. The regulator does use a cap for one of it's ports and both rails are capped at the rear. This is all mentioned in the instructions and in the diagram.

It seems to me that Sally decided to install the system his way instead of ours which is definitely going to be an issue. If he chose to customize the setup and re-write the instructions to Sally's system not Lethal Performance's system and caused you to need different fittings shouldn't that be Sally's responsibility?

Either Matt or Christy will be in touch you with on Monday to get the rest of this sorted out. We would also like the additional parts we shipped you that you didn't need back as they were never paid for.

Thanks, Jared

 

[da28fan]

Jared, as I stated above, I have not mailed back the harness yet. If you misconstrued that to mean I was not intending to mail it back then you are mistaken and I am sorry. As for us deciding to install it "our own way", that is also incorrect. It sounds like you may have updated the instructions since the first versions of the new hats were shipped. We installed the system exactly as the diagram that came with the regulator portrayed. In our directions there were no diagrams at all that showed the complete system of rails, Y block, and regulator. There was a diagram that showed the capped rails, but it did not show the interface with the regulator at all, and it contradicted the instructions with the regulator. If this is the first you have heard of this, then maybe the instructions were changed after ours was shipped. As I said, I am indeed very happy with this system, but we pulled our hair out trying to interpret the manuals. I am happy to talk on Monday and will go ahead and mail back the harness as well. Thank you.

 

[M240Bravo]

I believe that both Matt and Christy were working on this so I'll have to have both of them speak about this and figure it out on Monday. From what I understand you or the shop working on your car believed they were missing some components. So which we shipped them to you overnight and still have yet to receive the original parts you were shipped even though we provided a return label. We were also told you were missing the entire wire harness which now turns out not to be the case.

As far as the system goes it installs exactly how it's show in the diagram. I run the same system on my own 03 and we've sold hundred of systems which all install the same way. The regulator does use a cap for one of it's ports and both rails are capped at the rear. This is all mentioned in the instructions and in the diagram.

It seems to me that Sally decided to install the system his way instead of ours which is definitely going to be an issue. If he chose to customize the setup and re-write the instructions to Sally's system not Lethal Performance's system and caused you to need different fittings shouldn't that be Sally's responsibility?

Either Matt or Christy will be in touch you with on Monday to get the rest of this sorted out. We would also like the additional parts we shipped you that you didn't need back as they were never paid for.

Thanks, Jared

That was me Jared, and having emailing and calling and emailing and calling I got nothing. I know I had to use 5 8AN fitting of my own plus steve had to buy some. I'm not a retard when it comes to these cars. I have done about 7-10 cobras now.

And my system is your old system before they changed the name.

I would have been happy with just talking to someone there that had a clue on your own fuel system but after talking to the female and getting nothing. And I won't deal with Matt ( you and I talked about that) I know I left no less then 10 messages for you (jared) to call me back with nothing.

Now this is not a pissing match, I will go over to steves tomorrow and take pictures and show in your wiring digram and your kit what was wrong. But you(lethal) need to make this right with steve.

You know already Jared you lost my business over this. In 5 years I have spent well over 20k with you. But from now on and the poeple I talk to about modding cobra, I will tell them not to use your business and I will never spend one more cent with your business.

 

[M240Bravo]

Thanks and I'm glad the system is working well for you. Did you contact us about the missing fittings or confusion on the installation instructions when you were installing it?

Ya we tired more then once!

I'm sure we would have been able to clear it up for you at that point. If you didn't contact us and just went ahead and purchased fittings on your own as well as installed it a different way then how we designed it to be installed there's not much we can do.


see above


The kit using 2 caps on the rails is actually correct. It's a dead head setup which we've been running with great success for years on several of our cars. That's maybe where some of the confusion you had could have easily been cleared up with a phone call

see above




. Again I'm not sure if you called or not but if you did it would have been resolved immediately.


see above

The diagram for how the kit needs to be installed is located in our installation section linked below. It's listed as SN95 Dual Return Style Fuel System Diagram.

Installation Documents

It even has part numbers on it which correspond with the checklist you receive with the kit. We provide all of the parts needed to do the install like this. If you try to install the kit any other way than that then yes you'll be short on fittings.


parts were missing! called and didn't get any help.


Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks, Jared

And...........

 

[03TermiCobra]

I've heard good and bad. One of my good friends had a lot of issues with the injector adapters. The rubber seal was too thick and the tabs would barely hold them to the injectors. Had one pop off as he was driving around. Also, the injector O-rings were way too thick and the div x rails wouldn't fit under the 2.9 which there had to be a 2.9 car around to test fit these before marketed I would hope. Just some food for thought as you revise and master the system.

 

[black03]

I've heard good and bad. One of my good friends had a lot of issues with the injector adapters. The rubber seal was too thick and the tabs would barely hold them to the injectors. Had one pop off as he was driving around. Also, the injector O-rings were way too thick and the div x rails wouldn't fit under the 2.9 which there had to be a 2.9 car around to test fit these before marketed I would hope. Just some food for thought as you revise and master the system.

Just wanted to address some of your concerns.

The injector adapters we sell are made by FRPP. I know what you're saying where they seem like they don't fit right. We've gotten a few calls about that. After looking at them in person they need to be pressed onto the injector connection quite hard to make them click into place. If they don't click they'll eventually come lose which has happened to us before on our 2010 GT500. Once we figured that out we've never had one come loose on us again. When I say quite hard as well it actually takes pressing the injector with the adapter onto a hard flat surface in order to completely get the adapter to click onto the injector tabs.

As far as the o-rings go I'm not familiar with any issues. I run the same 105's on my 03 cobra which also uses the FRPP adapters and the DX rails and didn't experience any fitment issues.

Lastly,
Regarding the 2.9L. When Whipple designed the 2.9L they didn't test fit any aftermatket rails with it. They based the plenum off of the stock rails. Unfortunately we don't have control of that and only found out after the 2.9L was released. With that being said we've had several members of this forum verify that the DX rails fit the non crusher 2.9L and some which say they don't. I'm unsure of why but that's just what we've heard. We disclose thisto our customer both on the website and the phone so there's no misunderstanding about fitment.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks, Jared

 

[03TermiCobra]

Regarding the 2.9L. When Whipple designed the 2.9L they didn't test fit any aftermatket rails with it. They based the plenum off of the stock rails. Unfortunately we don't have control of that and only found out after the 2.9L was released. With that being said we've had several members of this forum verify that the DX rails fit the non crusher 2.9L and some which say they don't. I'm unsure of why but that's just what we've heard. We disclose thisto our customer both on the website and the phone so there's no misunderstanding about fitment.

I don't think this is whipples fault as the 2.9 has been around far longer than the dx rails. He was never disclosed this information or he would have never ordered them. I would think that something would ring a bell with someone on your end when he ordered absolutely everything for the build from you guys. I guess you live and learn.

 

[black03]

I don't think this is whipples fault as the 2.9 has been around far longer than the dx rails. He was never disclosed this information or he would have never ordered them. I would think that something would ring a bell with someone on your end when he ordered absolutely everything for the build from you guys. I guess you live and learn.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way but it was indeed Whipple's fault as they designed a new blower without testing to see if it would fit with the aftermarket fuel rail options.

As mentioned before there's members of this forum that have been able to successfully install both the DX and Fore rails on the 2.9L non crusher. However there's other members that experienced fitment issues. The rails haven't changed but the castings of the inlet do vary by batch which is also something we don't have control of.

In the end if your friend isn't happy with them or they don't fit your application you can send them back for a refund.

Let me know if you have any other questions or you can have your friend contact us direct.


Thanks, Jared

 

[03TermiCobra]

Whipple is supposed to build a blower around Lethal's fuel rails? I haven't heard complaints from any other aftermarket rails. Do you build your room around a house or your house around a room?

 

[black03]

Whipple is supposed to build a blower around Lethal's fuel rails? I haven't heard complaints from any other aftermarket rails. Do you build your room around a house or your house around a room?

Actually they do bulld their plenums per our specifications since the original rails designed were built around their blowers.

I'll explain not only for you but the others on here.

Back when Fore just got into business and started working with us on the first set of fuel rails for the 03 cobra it was me that tested the prototype rails on the Whipple blowers available at that time. I tested them on a 2.3L and my personal 3.4L setup to make sure they would fit. The first set didn't. Some changes were made and the next version fit.

From that point we worked with Whipple on any new blower setup for the cobra and made sure they fit those specific tolerances. I even provided them with a passenger side rail so that they could always make sure their plenums fit them. It worked out great until the casting foundry screwed up a batch and caused some clearance issues on some of the 3.4L plenums. No worries as our friends at Whipple actually went through the plenums and modified them to fit the rails as that's what they were designed to do.

Fore goes out of business at some point and DX steps up to make fuel rails for the marketplace. Their rails used the same exact tolerances for plenum clearance as the Fore rails did. Obviously that was done so they would fit the blower options.

The 2.9L comes out around the same time the DX rails are introduced. We get a call or two that there's a clearance issue with the rail and the plenum on the new 2.9L. I contact Whipple and they said that it shouldn't have any clearance issues as the 2.9L uses the identical plenum as the 2.3L. Keep in mind the rails are the same. When I asked them if they used the test rail they have to make sure it cleared they had forgotten to. So even though the plenum was identical to the one the rails were made around the issue ends up being where the plenum mounts to the new 2.9L compressor and how the 2.9L sits on the manifold. It causes the plenum to hang slightly lower then where it sat on the 2.3L setup causing the interference. Even though it was assumed that the plenum was the same and that it would clear the rails no one test fit it to make sure before releasing the production 2.9l blower.

As mentioned not everyone has this issue. Some have had problems while others on here have been able to fit both the Fore and DX rails on without any problems. However once we had a few complaints we started making everyone aware before they purchased the rails.

Going forward from there we made sure that Whipple used the test rail they had there to make sure the 2.9L and 4.0L crusher plenum would clear so that we didn't run into this anymore.

To answer your other question you haven't heard of any other issues with other rails simply because no one else makes a rail for the 03-04 that fits these specific applications besides the original Fore and new DX 4V rails.

Hope that explains it a little better for you and everyone else on here.

Jared

 

[03TermiCobra]

.

 

[black03]

Aeromotive and Sullivan don't make rails for the 03-04? You have to be kidding me...

Oh they make them. Do they fit? That's another story.

 

[VenomSVT03]

Never had a fitment issue with the 2.9 crusher on the DX rails, just make sure you do what Jared said, press HARD on the harness when you plug them to the injectors

 

[da28fan]

Matt and I talked a couple of weeks ago. I mailed back and you received the duplicate harness shortly thereafter. I explained that since we followed the only complete diagram in the instructions, which came with the regulator, and not the partial diagram that Lethal provided, which we could not make sense of, we needed extra fittings. Matt understood this and was going to talk to you about the extra money I spent on fittings and fuel line. I have not heard anything back yet. Will I receive a final decision on this from Lethal?

 

[Eric@jpc]

The other thing is more pumps, more heat generated in the tank and heating up the fuel.

Thats not really the case there bud.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/distillery-374/867105-tripple-pump-vs-dual-pump-heat-test.html

If you want take a min to read though that you might find some good info.

:beer:

I do agree that triple 405s make more heat, BUT you dont really need that unless your making BIG BIG power im talking well over 1000 on e85

 

[M240Bravo]

Matt and I talked a couple of weeks ago. I mailed back and you received the duplicate harness shortly thereafter. I explained that since we followed the only complete diagram in the instructions, which came with the regulator, and not the partial diagram that Lethal provided, which we could not make sense of, we needed extra fittings. Matt understood this and was going to talk to you about the extra money I spent on fittings and fuel line. I have not heard anything back yet. Will I receive a final decision on this from Lethal?

So ever heard back from them?

 

[da28fan]

No, unfortunately I have not heard back from anyone at Lethal on this.

 

[M240Bravo]

No, unfortunately I have not heard back from anyone at Lethal on this.

LOL Oh what a great stand up company!