Kenny Brown Cobra Coupe Springs - The Company is done, Moog an option?
- Thread starter DonMTV
- Start date
Hey Everyone,
I finally got some time to spend on the computer. I work for a comedian and for the last couple of weeks we have been running a crazy promotion in three different states. Pretty much kicking my ass, plus the whole Tax day thing.
I called the guy at the spring company several times last week, and we finally connected on the phone this week. I guess since it is race season they have been super busy with making springs for the circle trackers, and many other people who need something for the new season.
He said they finally got the chance to tech out the Kenny Brown Springs that Whocares sent to them. He was very surpsrised to find out the spring rates for these springs. He said they were very serious compression rates, more like road racing. The info he found out would dispute the claim from oxfordman03 that Kenny Brown used repackaged Ford Springs for the Cobra application. He said they were 800 lb/inch front and 660 lb/inch rear. I found this website that had spring rates for various sets of springs: http://www.2kgt.com/item.php?itemid=74 On this site they had the stock springs rated at 600 lb/inch front and 600 lb/inch rear. They didn't have the 5300 J springs listed.
They took 13 different specs off of the springs, including the diameter of the spring wire, spacing between coils, and other variables that they use to create a spring.
I told him that I was running a thread on a Mustang site about getting some Kenny Brown Springs reversed engineered. I said there seemed to be some interest in what I was trying to accomplish. My thoughts on this were, I was definitely interested in having a set made. I thought that it would be best to get a couple of extra pairs made so that they could be lent to people who already have the Kenny Brown Coupe Springs on their cars so that they could make a comparison report. The reason for this is to make sure the new springs act and feel similiar to the Kenny Brown Springs. I don't want to make a claim that I am going to be a parts manufacturer with tons of money to R&D suspension parts.
I figure once people have tested them then I could look into making more of these springs for anyone who is interested. I can put the word out to other Mustang message boards too.
The guy at the spring company was too busy to figure out what it would take to get several sets made. The obvious assumption that making more would be cheaper is probably correct, but he couldn't confirm it. I will be talking to him early next week to see what he came up with.
So that is all I know, and I hope this helps. The big props goes out to Bob(Whocares) who was willing to ship the springs to the spring company in Kansas. He was very patient, and I am thankful for that.
Take care,
Don
p.s. Anyone out there know of any DVD's dedicated to late model Mustang restoration? I am working on getting more information on whether or not I want to procede with an idea I have for the DVD's.
I finally got some time to spend on the computer. I work for a comedian and for the last couple of weeks we have been running a crazy promotion in three different states. Pretty much kicking my ass, plus the whole Tax day thing.
I called the guy at the spring company several times last week, and we finally connected on the phone this week. I guess since it is race season they have been super busy with making springs for the circle trackers, and many other people who need something for the new season.
He said they finally got the chance to tech out the Kenny Brown Springs that Whocares sent to them. He was very surpsrised to find out the spring rates for these springs. He said they were very serious compression rates, more like road racing. The info he found out would dispute the claim from oxfordman03 that Kenny Brown used repackaged Ford Springs for the Cobra application. He said they were 800 lb/inch front and 660 lb/inch rear. I found this website that had spring rates for various sets of springs: http://www.2kgt.com/item.php?itemid=74 On this site they had the stock springs rated at 600 lb/inch front and 600 lb/inch rear. They didn't have the 5300 J springs listed.
They took 13 different specs off of the springs, including the diameter of the spring wire, spacing between coils, and other variables that they use to create a spring.
I told him that I was running a thread on a Mustang site about getting some Kenny Brown Springs reversed engineered. I said there seemed to be some interest in what I was trying to accomplish. My thoughts on this were, I was definitely interested in having a set made. I thought that it would be best to get a couple of extra pairs made so that they could be lent to people who already have the Kenny Brown Coupe Springs on their cars so that they could make a comparison report. The reason for this is to make sure the new springs act and feel similiar to the Kenny Brown Springs. I don't want to make a claim that I am going to be a parts manufacturer with tons of money to R&D suspension parts.
I figure once people have tested them then I could look into making more of these springs for anyone who is interested. I can put the word out to other Mustang message boards too.
The guy at the spring company was too busy to figure out what it would take to get several sets made. The obvious assumption that making more would be cheaper is probably correct, but he couldn't confirm it. I will be talking to him early next week to see what he came up with.
So that is all I know, and I hope this helps. The big props goes out to Bob(Whocares) who was willing to ship the springs to the spring company in Kansas. He was very patient, and I am thankful for that.
Take care,
Don
p.s. Anyone out there know of any DVD's dedicated to late model Mustang restoration? I am working on getting more information on whether or not I want to procede with an idea I have for the DVD's.
That would be the Cobra "R" springs from Ford Racing Parts, 800lb front/700lb rear. They were an option on KB's CSR/OT (Cobra Sport Racer/ On Track). Why would you custom build a spring you can buy off the shelf just like KB did? :shrug:
well just read in the new mm&ff about KB, and they are saying that once he gets well he should be back in business if all goes well with recovery from jan surgery.
Oxfordman03,
The reason I went to the trouble of creating this thread was that I wanted to find out how I could get the Kenny Brown Springs. I figured that someone was making them for Kenny Brown and that Kenny Brown wasn't producing them at that shop. So, I tried my best to search for the information. There wasn't a lot of information out there, especially when they closed down their business.
I called a couple of places to see if they might have supplied Kenny Brown the springs, but no luck. Then I found a guy who was selling a lot of the Kenny Brown stuff on eBay. I contacted him and he said that SuperCoil was a possibility. I checked into that and really couldn't find a "SuperCoil" company, but I did find a company in Kansas that made springs for car, RV's, and other vehicles. They sold a line of SuperCoil springs for RV's. I talked to one of the tech guys to find out if they actually supplied Kenny Brown. He didn't know, but he said he could make the springs if we could send him a set. Hence, my getting this thread open and someone volunteering their springs for "reverse engineering."
Hell, if you had come in here sooner, we could have had this infomation sooner. I was trying my best to get any and all information I could about these springs as I have been reading in all of the forums that these springs lowered the car perfectly and the ride was pretty good. I know I wanted to get a pair, and I was sure there were others like me. If we have 100% confimation that Kenny Brown used the Cobra R springs that of course that is the best option going for all of us looking for the "Kenny Brown" spring.
Don
The reason I went to the trouble of creating this thread was that I wanted to find out how I could get the Kenny Brown Springs. I figured that someone was making them for Kenny Brown and that Kenny Brown wasn't producing them at that shop. So, I tried my best to search for the information. There wasn't a lot of information out there, especially when they closed down their business.
I called a couple of places to see if they might have supplied Kenny Brown the springs, but no luck. Then I found a guy who was selling a lot of the Kenny Brown stuff on eBay. I contacted him and he said that SuperCoil was a possibility. I checked into that and really couldn't find a "SuperCoil" company, but I did find a company in Kansas that made springs for car, RV's, and other vehicles. They sold a line of SuperCoil springs for RV's. I talked to one of the tech guys to find out if they actually supplied Kenny Brown. He didn't know, but he said he could make the springs if we could send him a set. Hence, my getting this thread open and someone volunteering their springs for "reverse engineering."
Hell, if you had come in here sooner, we could have had this infomation sooner. I was trying my best to get any and all information I could about these springs as I have been reading in all of the forums that these springs lowered the car perfectly and the ride was pretty good. I know I wanted to get a pair, and I was sure there were others like me. If we have 100% confimation that Kenny Brown used the Cobra R springs that of course that is the best option going for all of us looking for the "Kenny Brown" spring.
Don
You don't have 100% comfirmation. I don't know who the spring manufacturer/supplier to Ford is but I would guess they source from one of the big German companies like everyone else. Kenny Brown was a Ford Racing Performance Parts distributer/installer. He bought those parts cheap. Why would KB custom design and build a spring that is nearly an exact copy of what his supplier (Ford) offers? Use the Cobra lowering spring for a stock ride (steet), the "R" spring for more aggression (track) and you will have the KB set up, or as close as you will ever get. You could match those spring rates with any other manufacturer and probably never know the difference. Just my opinion. :beer:
oxfordman03 said:
These cars need big springs up front for the weight. Hell 800 pound springs are not enough for this car. I run 1400 pound springs up front and find them to be the hot spot. Some people run more then I do.
They are close to a 2000r match but I bet when they got turned by a differnt company they achieved a different rate. Its not far from a 2000r spring. RIde height is the same fronts are just a little more aggresive. If you want a good handlign car with the correct drop Steeda, 200r and KB springs are the ones to have. Drop the car any lower and you lose the correct geometry,
putting 00r springs with factory isolators on a terminator raises the car
you will also find the 00r rear springs too stiff relative to the fronts unless you have a wing on the back. for real!
you will also find the 00r rear springs too stiff relative to the fronts unless you have a wing on the back. for real!
ShelbyGuy said:
I can relate to that last statement. Infact im trying to lose weight in the front and instead of running a race battery in the rear I was going to run a full size.
I can help you guys out with some of this information.
I was directly involved with the development of the KB cobra
springs. Worked for Kenny for 5 years before they shut down.
The front springs are a copy of the ford racing springs made
just a bit longer but still at the 650 lbs rate. The rears were a
custom spring , rate was 820 lbs and the only difference in the
coupe and convert was the vert was 1/4 longer.
We hade the springs wound at a coupl of different speciatly spring
companys. Unfortunally I dont remember at this time the names.
But with a sample spring any one of them could reproduce it.
I hope this info helps and if you need any other just post and I
will try to answer them.
I was directly involved with the development of the KB cobra
springs. Worked for Kenny for 5 years before they shut down.
The front springs are a copy of the ford racing springs made
just a bit longer but still at the 650 lbs rate. The rears were a
custom spring , rate was 820 lbs and the only difference in the
coupe and convert was the vert was 1/4 longer.
We hade the springs wound at a coupl of different speciatly spring
companys. Unfortunally I dont remember at this time the names.
But with a sample spring any one of them could reproduce it.
I hope this info helps and if you need any other just post and I
will try to answer them.
op:
Kenny Brown components are still being manufactured by a company now called Engineered Performance in Indianapolis IN, I don't know if the Springs are still being made, but they have all the stuff from KB to make most of their other components.
I found a site selling the Engineered Performance (KB) Springs and other KB stuff. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name because I don't think they are a vendor on here.
Hey Guys,
I am sorry that I haven't been around at all the last few months. My job took me on the road and I didn't have much time to do anything for myself. I love that people are still interested in this. Thanks to the information that BLK03SVT10TH provided the other day I tracked down Engineered Performance in Indianapolis and spoke to someone who is running the company.
He told me that they have indeed taken over the facility that Kenny Brown had at the Speedway. He is expecting his supplier to have the Cobra springs ready in about 3 weeks. They will be going to his parts supplier companies like the one in the link above. They will be concentrating on the 03-04 Cobras with the parts they will be manufacturing. Either improving the Kenny Brown design when they can or keeping with the design.
I left my name with him because I would be interested in purchasing the springs. We talked further and he mentioned that it might be good to purchase the parts from one of the companies that will be carrying the product instead of getting it directly from Engineered Performance. It will help the vendor out and they will order more parts from Engineered Performance. I told him that he could pass my info on to the V8Power to work out something for a good price. Perhaps a group buy. I won't know anything for awhile.
I just know that Engineered Performance will be making Kenny Brown springs now and they will be available shortly. So, we will get our drop and the driving that those springs gave us in the past. They will also be making the subframe connectors, matrix, and jacking rails again. I look forward to it.
This is great info and thanks again to BLK03SVT10TH for finding out this new info, and to WhoCares(Bob) for actually providing his spare set of springs to get reversed engineered as that could have been an option if these guys didn't come up. At least we know we are getting the real spring even though oxfordman03 said they were Ford springs.
Don
I am sorry that I haven't been around at all the last few months. My job took me on the road and I didn't have much time to do anything for myself. I love that people are still interested in this. Thanks to the information that BLK03SVT10TH provided the other day I tracked down Engineered Performance in Indianapolis and spoke to someone who is running the company.
He told me that they have indeed taken over the facility that Kenny Brown had at the Speedway. He is expecting his supplier to have the Cobra springs ready in about 3 weeks. They will be going to his parts supplier companies like the one in the link above. They will be concentrating on the 03-04 Cobras with the parts they will be manufacturing. Either improving the Kenny Brown design when they can or keeping with the design.
I left my name with him because I would be interested in purchasing the springs. We talked further and he mentioned that it might be good to purchase the parts from one of the companies that will be carrying the product instead of getting it directly from Engineered Performance. It will help the vendor out and they will order more parts from Engineered Performance. I told him that he could pass my info on to the V8Power to work out something for a good price. Perhaps a group buy. I won't know anything for awhile.
I just know that Engineered Performance will be making Kenny Brown springs now and they will be available shortly. So, we will get our drop and the driving that those springs gave us in the past. They will also be making the subframe connectors, matrix, and jacking rails again. I look forward to it.
This is great info and thanks again to BLK03SVT10TH for finding out this new info, and to WhoCares(Bob) for actually providing his spare set of springs to get reversed engineered as that could have been an option if these guys didn't come up. At least we know we are getting the real spring even though oxfordman03 said they were Ford springs.
Don
we also deal with engineered performance. i do not have the parts on our website yet but will be adding them over the next few weeks.
sean
sean
pvteye said:
A quick tech question...the spring set shown is not fully linear. Aren't KB's all linear? Does anyone know if the re-released "KB"'s will be 650 FR, 826 R linears (the old 99/01 rates, right), or some other rates for the heavier 03/04's? Thanks.
I think the first sets of springs will be the 03-04 Cobra Springs. You might want to call them directly to find out for sure. You can find out when they might expect to include the different year Cobras. Engineered Performance 317-240-0051
Don
Don
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