Turbo and 6r80 the terminator. New with the old.
Is the 03-04 Cobra the Beast it was 7-10+ Years Ago?
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I take back what I said previously.
This topic at 6 pages has been beaten to death. We have effectively beat a horse to death guys.
RIP Terminators.
This topic at 6 pages has been beaten to death. We have effectively beat a horse to death guys.
RIP Terminators.
It's because you keep calling it a 'termi.' Come on, man!
Proof?
I seriously need proof of a 5.Bros making 1,000whp on a 100% stock long block.
As for your argument of "efficient" you are sounding like a Ford salesman reading a brochure. None of these cars are making 1000hp with a tune and a catback. It's just a matter of boost. Plenty of +1k Turbo Mod Motors.
You also failed to address the fact that the Coyote sounds like utter ass 90% of the time. Also, your strip times for the +18's are based on having a 10spd Automatic. Coyote manuals are still the garbage MT82.
So you really end up needing to replace all the same crap at the end of the day to may big power.
Can we talk about this? I've seen/ heard a few that sound great, but the VAST majority of the coyotes I've seen/heard in person on the street with exhaust sound terrible
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Have the heads been bench tested against each other? And what makes you think a GT500 "will never make the same power" as a FI Coyote? I think people forget that the Coyote's high ass compression ratio is the magic to its FI power. Make no mistake, a Coyote will not live long at the same power levels GT500s can make all day long and then some without breaking a sweat.
For GT500s, you're saying "most" need cams to get there? Either they all do or they all don't. Considering we have at least one forum member confirmed to make that power on his stock long block, they don't. Carroll Shelby himself said the GT500 engine "can comfortably handle 1000HP." I'll take his word for it. The reason people aren't doing it is because too many people say "you 'need' this" and "you 'need' that" to get there with no proof. They're just upselling unnecessary parts.
So much truth in this post.
I think the 03/04 Cobra is still relevant. Hell, it’s rare to see any clean new edge around my area. People are arguing over extremely high horsepower numbers and I’m wondering why. The recipe for good horsepower in all of these platforms are the same, you just need good flowing heads, strong short block and boost. The Cobra is just a little short on the boost. That said, the creature comforts and drivability of these new cars are off the charts amazing.
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I still don't trust powdered "forged" rods for big power. GT500's with reliable 700rwhp on stock rods is nothing to sneeze at though. Knowing the block, crank and pistons are all 1000 capable is the nicest thing about what SVT did 11-12. Still unpleasant to know I have to replace rods to get to 1000 but really its just nitpicking at that point. the fact that all SVT engines have big power capability is impressive.
Smaller displacement in the Terminator at 4.6, but a truly forged factory rotating assembly? THAT is hella baller. Yes, I said hella. No I don't regret it.
Smaller displacement in the Terminator at 4.6, but a truly forged factory rotating assembly? THAT is hella baller. Yes, I said hella. No I don't regret it.
Proof. http://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories...ower-belts-out-over-1000hp-on-a-stock-coyote/
Many more examples that are similar... Crawl out from under that rock youre under and take a peek at what's going on around you.
Boost is simply a reflection of a motor's efficiency or VE. There is no such thing as "just a matter of boost". That sounds like youve been reading too many "rev tuner" magazines at the Dollar Tree.
Yes, no shit the hero times are made on the 10spd. Again.. back to technology and efficiency.
See the theme here?
Considering how amazing your Cobra runs, i cant believe you are now white knighting for it.. LMAO!
LB for LB of boost, they never will make the same power, no. See above.
Yes, compression, variable timing, a far advanced ECU, 7500rpm in stock form, dual fuel on the Gen3.. the list goes on.
These are all reasons the new motors make power easier.
Yes.. they need cams. Carroll Shelby himself? LMAO. Your're getting all nostalgic on us.
If people didn't "need" cams to break 1k hp on your platform, they wouldnt do it. It's a $3k job for a shop to do it... cams themselves are $1500 or better.... nowhere near as easy as an LS cam swap... nothing close.
Not everyone is a mini-baller like you partner.
I still don't trust powdered "forged" rods for big power. GT500's with reliable 700rwhp on stock rods is nothing to sneeze at though. Knowing the block, crank and pistons are all 1000 capable is the nicest thing about what SVT did 11-12. Still unpleasant to know I have to replace rods to get to 1000 but really its just nitpicking at that point. the fact that all SVT engines have big power capability is impressive.
Smaller displacement in the Terminator at 4.6, but a truly forged factory rotating assembly? THAT is hella baller. Yes, I said hella. No I don't regret it.
This man knows the truth. A condor or trinity ought to live a long, happy life at ~750whp.
Just DO NOT take it over 6500 rpm!
They're just such different motors than the newer stuff. The slap you in your face torque is fun as hell... just sucks that it has to stop at 6500!
They’re going the way of the Fox 5.0 for sure. Still a respectable car though that served as a benchmark for the competition. I’m a firm believer that if it wasn’t for the 03/04 Cobra’s, performance cars wouldn’t be where they are today.
Read your own article -
“If we were building a Coyote engine for a customer, the setup would be much different,” Justin said. “On a built-motor car, you would do certain things to handle all the boost, and improve airflow through the engine. Custom cams and cylinder head porting work generally net 100 to 200 rear-wheel horsepower over a stock Coyote at higher boost levels. For purpose-built race motors, even higher gains are possible.”
Then why do they make Coyote Cams?!? OMFG they also cost $1,500!?! Well I bet they only cost $3.50 to install however..
2015-2018 Mustang Camshafts | AmericanMuscle
I thought your whole argument was "Mod Motors Suck, They need $1,500 Cams" and yet in the very article you use as proof, the guy says if it was a car for a customer it would be a forged short block with head work.
The cost of doing a forged Coyote short block + head work is no less expensive then doing a forged Mod Motor with head work.
That is my entire point. You are arguing over scraps. Yes, I would hope to God, 25 years later the engine has some improvements. The fact remains, you can hit any power level or E.T. with a Cobra that you can in a Coyote. That makes the Cobra still competitive and relevant.
You do realize a Coyote is just a Mod Motor with longer stroke, bigger bore and VVT, right? The biggest advantage the Coyote has is it's 11:1 compression. That is why "it makes more power with less boost". I recall extensive conversations about how the 4V head design is actually superior to the Coyotes in terms of total build potential.
Here is just one quick link I found to support this.
http://www.enginelabs.com/features/clearing-up-mod-motor-misconceptions-with-john-mihovetz/
Give me an 03/04 cobra any day over any of the new cars out there. The violence and pull of the cobra, the look, the ease of of being able to work on it still sells me even though you can crack 500+ with coyote motor with simple bolt on's.
Here should be the argument, are we debating all these cars purely being fast on the street or track?
Me personally I couldn't care about hitting 1000 hp, I'd rather have a well balanced car that can hang in the corners and embarrass someone on a roll or launch.
Here should be the argument, are we debating all these cars purely being fast on the street or track?
Me personally I couldn't care about hitting 1000 hp, I'd rather have a well balanced car that can hang in the corners and embarrass someone on a roll or launch.
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The whole Coyote motor is forged except for the pistons (which have been revised a few times and are actually quite good). The whole point is you dont need to build it to make considerable power in stock form; hence the article i linked.
Even an Escort GT can be made to go fast, yes.
The modern, more efficient motor makes more power in stock form, boosted form, and any form SAVE a max effort, completely custom 3000hp dedicated drag platform. Period.
Sorry you prefer the stone age.
Imagine how much fun you'd have driving a new Coyote car vs. complaining about the steaming turd you currently own which cannot seem to go 5 miles without shitting all over itself.
That's a lot like saying "Gay men statistically have 5x as much sex as straight men, think of how much more sex you could be having if you went gay!"
Also, I'm not sure why you feel the need to make personal quips. I am sure there are plenty of threads about broken Coyotes and busted MT82 transmissions.
The 2018 Car is fugly as hell, designed for the Euro Soy Boys. It's also roughly $40k, twice the price of most Cobras.
Lastly, the Rods are not forged in a Coyote. They are "sinter forged" which is code for "fancy powdered metal".
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