It's obviously too early to answer those questions, considering this will be the first production car with that transmission. But seeing as the Tremec DCT will be in both the c8 and the new gt500, I think it will be a quality product.
Is "no manual available" a deal-breaker for you regarding whether you'll purchase a new 2020 GT500?
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Curt@injected
Well-Known Member
I'm definitely with you on the performance. I think this thing with the dct will be sick.
My biggest concern is the reliability of the dct, especially with elevated power levels(I do modify shit for a living). One of the hallmarks of the late model "cobra/gt500" line starting with the terminator was ease and low cost of modding them. Will this DCT be the weak and expensive piece holding back the 2020 GT500 from being able to be modded easily and cheaply? I still think a m6 and 10 speed auto would have been a better choice. With the 10 speed already being in the gt, the aftermarket support for that trans is going to be overwhelming. This new dct, probably much more niche and not as well supported.
Just my thoughts. If you intend to keep the thing stock then I think the DCT is definitely the best choice.
Totally agree Curt!
-J
-J
Nah, if you want manual grab a ‘13-14. Glass roof recaros and dat torque. I have a 1000rwhp ‘14 with a Magnum XL that’s a keeper, they’re special cars.I was hoping they would offer both a manual and the DCT. This way I could get one of each!
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-J
1/2 the problem is a large portion of people believe a DCT is just a form of an automatic, after having this debate for over a decade now, I grow weary. A DCT is similar to a convertor automatic in that it shifts automatically, but thats wher the similarity stops. the 'instant shift, "slapping" of the gear changes and overall driving feel, is not boring. I had the DCT M3 for several years (same dct in ferrari 458). I drove it in manual mode for the 1st 20 miles from the dealer, after that, always on my own unless at the dragstrip or racing.
The same "driving experience" the 3 peddlers refer to, is what the DCT gives its driver.
Its a super fun car to drive for yourself around town, and even more fun when when looking back and seeing the headlights of the guy still trying to find 3rd, and then over at the guy falling back who found 3rd, but not "fast enough"
The same "driving experience" the 3 peddlers refer to, is what the DCT gives its driver.
Its a super fun car to drive for yourself around town, and even more fun when when looking back and seeing the headlights of the guy still trying to find 3rd, and then over at the guy falling back who found 3rd, but not "fast enough"
Rented a Fusion with a 6 speed auto with paddle shifters. The paddles made the little eco boost fun to drive and these were slow shifts at times.
A DCT in a 700+ hp car now that would be amazing.
A DCT in a 700+ hp car now that would be amazing.
Just remember.......those that are wishing for a manual in this car they need to PROPERLY engineer a design that doesn't suck (meaning no grind and/or lockout) like the S197 Shelby's and even the S550 GT's and even some GT350's.
This is my big gripe with my 13, that shifter design suck balls and I still don't know what I can do about it and why currently I'm pissed with my car for it.
This is my big gripe with my 13, that shifter design suck balls and I still don't know what I can do about it and why currently I'm pissed with my car for it.
The question largely boils down to....
"Do you prefer driving experience or performance?" Few could argue that a DCT won't be faster in virtually every competitive venue. Conversely, few could argue that the driver connection to the car with a DCT would be as satisfying as a manual for every other non-timed mile (which let's face it, is MOST of the mileage put on these cars).
And not for nothing, I love my Ford, but the last few years have worn on my confidence that they do the appropriate amount of field testing to ensure it won't have problems. From the BBQ tick on the new coyotes, to garbage shift forks on the MT, to limp mode on early 350s, to largely still unexplained oil consumption issues with the voodoo, Ford is developing a pretty healthy recent legacy of gremlin plagued new offerings.
If I was going to buy a new Ford with a DCT, I'd either cringe in the first year or wait to see if it has problems after a couple of model years.
"Do you prefer driving experience or performance?" Few could argue that a DCT won't be faster in virtually every competitive venue. Conversely, few could argue that the driver connection to the car with a DCT would be as satisfying as a manual for every other non-timed mile (which let's face it, is MOST of the mileage put on these cars).
And not for nothing, I love my Ford, but the last few years have worn on my confidence that they do the appropriate amount of field testing to ensure it won't have problems. From the BBQ tick on the new coyotes, to garbage shift forks on the MT, to limp mode on early 350s, to largely still unexplained oil consumption issues with the voodoo, Ford is developing a pretty healthy recent legacy of gremlin plagued new offerings.
If I was going to buy a new Ford with a DCT, I'd either cringe in the first year or wait to see if it has problems after a couple of model years.
A valid point that wasn't missed by some rather astute individuals in positions of power at Ford.
I have confidence that Ford tested, evaluated, and after a long period of time made sure that they had the calibration "right." I expect the street experience to be among the best as it very well should be. Tremec acquired HOERBIGER six years ago (hence the bulk of development coming from Belgium). That alone should have placed them at the forefront with respect to mechatronics and this DCT. Every day driving should be smooth hand glitch-free. Should be...
The question I have is did Ford use their own DCT control unit or did they allow use of Tremec's in-house TCU?
http://www.tremec.com/menu/transmission-control-unit/
Of note, Ford engineers have been clear that this DCT has a higher power capacity that the 10-speed auto. But you're right to be concerned, and the proof will be in the pudding when this unit is pushed to the extreme. No doubt it will likely be one of the most expensive to service at the dealer level were there to be a substantial issue or failure.
The question is...when engine/traction control parameters are altered such that the transmission is outside any protective strategies how easily can damage occur? I was told that early development DCT units were suffering from heat related issues and that those issues were mitigated. To be fair, that's how you test so I can't find fault if that was indeed the case. Time will tell.
Good point.
We definitely reached a point where large amounts of power have an impact on manually operated transmission mechanisms and how well they can function in the compromised world of both street and strip operation. The DCT gives far greater control in this regard and at the very least offers up consistency and the potential for greater performance as a result. In essence, the DCT doesn't fight back when pushed whereas the TR6060 (for example) did.
I think we may only have a couple of years (maybe 2.5?) of this model anyway. But you're right and have a genuine concern. At this point, prospective buyers are placing their trust in Ford and Tremec (or Tremac in ****stick-speak) with the understanding that the first crack they took at this was a really, really good one.
Look guys, you need to go over to the Hellcat/Demon forum and read about this same debate. Let me tell you where the debate ends. ON THE ROAD as the guys with the A8 Autos walk away from the 6-speed cars. Better gearing, lightening fast shits, better in traffic, better on the track, not replacing clutches....list goes on and on. I didn't miss the manual ONCE after seeing how fast the Demon shifts. And the GT500 shifts even faster.
It's also why the Chevy ZL1 1LE makes no sense. Chevy puts a much slower transmission into a track weapon car? HUH? Only reason they did this was the early adopters ALL BOUGHT the Auto ZL1's when they first came out...then Chevy gave them the car they wanted all along, the 1LE, and to not screw over the early adopters, they kept the auto out of the 1LE. Silly move that makes the 1LE package a head scratcher.
Comparitively, the E92 M3s when we were racing them, had a 5-6mph difference, even on same days, same tracks (drag) DCT vs manuals. The intriguing part is that some of those 6MTs were making 20-30-40-50 more HP than the DCT cars ( which was a point of argument in itself at the time)
I posted my own results elsewhere, but a real 550dynojet hp, got me 10.5/132&133 mph when the 6mt's could only muster low 11's, maybe i recall a 10.9 with 127-128mph, making 580-610hp (dynojet)
There is no traditional automatic offered to remotely compare to those cars, so its manual vs dct, and given what i personally know of the dct advantage's, I htink people are going to be very pleasantly surprised with its performance, as well as the driver engagement/feel of it on the road.
IE- the blazing fast and aggressive shifts, the rev-matched downshifting, etc
I posted my own results elsewhere, but a real 550dynojet hp, got me 10.5/132&133 mph when the 6mt's could only muster low 11's, maybe i recall a 10.9 with 127-128mph, making 580-610hp (dynojet)
There is no traditional automatic offered to remotely compare to those cars, so its manual vs dct, and given what i personally know of the dct advantage's, I htink people are going to be very pleasantly surprised with its performance, as well as the driver engagement/feel of it on the road.
IE- the blazing fast and aggressive shifts, the rev-matched downshifting, etc
No head scratching here. Having tracked a 1LE I can say it was very well done and had features that Ford was bit behind on. The rev-matching was aggressive but perfectly matched. The Performance Data Recorder, something Ford still has nothing to compare to, made evaluating your line/throttle input/brake input/etc quick and simple, the battery moved to the trunk, and a tow hook up front in case you needed it. The fact that GM took the TR6060 to the next level and stuck with it when Ford abandoned it after 2014 says a lot - it is a very robust transmission. Sadly, if you aren't fond of GM then making a move to a Camaro is a bit of a challenge. Regardless, you can't knock the performance GM engineers built into the car. They did a fantastic job.
If I was a serious new GT500 drag racer at 1,000+ RWHP, I'd yank the DCT and use a 6R80. No unobtanium parts and support out the butt for the 6R80.
There will be no shortage of guys pushing the DCT, but their credit cards will be smokin!
There will be no shortage of guys pushing the DCT, but their credit cards will be smokin!
That's because a lot of people over in the gt500 frustration thread proved what I am about to say: Manufacturers have to sell to magazines now, not individuals. How many people said "this car is an utter failure if it doesnt come with at least *insert ridiculous horsepower claim here*" when in reality what does it matter? If the GT500 was a full second faster than a hellcat or whatever with only 600 horsepower there are still those that would call it a failure.
Here was are again with this thread. Because lap times are all that matter, Ford had to put a DCT in here to really push things forward. Now, for that I commend them, and I think it's cool to see but at the end of the day it should just be about how fun and enjoyable the car is to drive. Some, obviously, get their chub off quoting stats. Some do not care and will choose to give up performance for enjoyment.
Those that will sit here and say a DCT is fun, that's fine, you need to understand it's fun for you though. I personally will always enjoy rowing my own gears, and furthering myself as a driver when I do track days. Now, since I do track days I would never purchase this GT500 for those as I feel it's too much anyways, so my opinion is probably worth nothing here.
It's frustrating to see the death of the manual, but it also has been a long time since any manufacturer put out a manual transmission worth a damn. The problem just keeps growing that cars are getting more powerful, more heavy, have higher rpm limits, AND no one is buying manuals, so what company in their right mind would spend the money to develop one?
Here was are again with this thread. Because lap times are all that matter, Ford had to put a DCT in here to really push things forward. Now, for that I commend them, and I think it's cool to see but at the end of the day it should just be about how fun and enjoyable the car is to drive. Some, obviously, get their chub off quoting stats. Some do not care and will choose to give up performance for enjoyment.
Those that will sit here and say a DCT is fun, that's fine, you need to understand it's fun for you though. I personally will always enjoy rowing my own gears, and furthering myself as a driver when I do track days. Now, since I do track days I would never purchase this GT500 for those as I feel it's too much anyways, so my opinion is probably worth nothing here.
It's frustrating to see the death of the manual, but it also has been a long time since any manufacturer put out a manual transmission worth a damn. The problem just keeps growing that cars are getting more powerful, more heavy, have higher rpm limits, AND no one is buying manuals, so what company in their right mind would spend the money to develop one?
All these threads and no one has mentioned the fact that America has an entire generation that can't drive a manual. I wonder how much marketing considerations were made around the fact that operating manual is a decaying skill. I bet there's rooms full of people talking about how cars won't sell well in the coming years because there's a shrinking number of people that know how to work a clutch.
Or, evidently, want to.
If manuals are almost impossible to find and in many cases a pain to daily drive, why learn?
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