How to go about getting started in OT racing?

[Relaxed Chaos]

I went out for my first HPDE with an instructor a month ago. My car is completely stock and my tires were, for the most part, bald and slippery. I flushed the brake lines, filled the tires to 36 all around, topped off all the fluids, cleaned everything out of the car and trunk, including the spare, and went for it. Man, it was a blast until I lost a valve stem and had to limp home. I had a little bit of brake fade/soft pedal but other than that the car did great. I was definately the limiting factor. I recommend bringing a small compressed air tank with you so you can adjust tire pressures to reduce tire roll and understeer, or deal with a slow leaker.

Since then I have new tires put on, braided brake lines are waiting to be put on, and I am waiting for Anthony's brake cooling kit to arrive. I'll get these on when I get back home and hopefully get another day on the track in July.

I'd start simple and find out what you need to go faster rather than trying to get your car just right. Make sure the fluids are good and it doesn't leak any out and just get out there and have some fun. You'll learn pretty quick that you need more practice before you are consistantly at the limits of your car's ability.

 

[laruei]

I went out for my first HPDE with an instructor a month ago. My car is completely stock and my tires were, for the most part, bald and slippery. I flushed the brake lines, filled the tires to 36 all around, topped off all the fluids, cleaned everything out of the car and trunk, including the spare, and went for it. Man, it was a blast until I lost a valve stem and had to limp home. I had a little bit of brake fade/soft pedal but other than that the car did great. I was definately the limiting factor. I recommend bringing a small compressed air tank with you so you can adjust tire pressures to reduce tire roll and understeer, or deal with a slow leaker.

Since then I have new tires put on, braided brake lines are waiting to be put on, and I am waiting for Anthony's brake cooling kit to arrive. I'll get these on when I get back home and hopefully get another day on the track in July.

I'd start simple and find out what you need to go faster rather than trying to get your car just right. Make sure the fluids are good and it doesn't leak any out and just get out there and have some fun. You'll learn pretty quick that you need more practice before you are consistantly at the limits of your car's ability.

Did you find that the instructor helped your driving or would you reccomend that i just go to a open track day after reading the primer and getting as much info as possible?

 

[shlbygt]

Did you find that the instructor helped your driving or would you reccomend that i just go to a open track day after reading the primer and getting as much info as possible?

An in car instructor with classroom is the way to go. I've ridden with many self taught drivers and it ususlly takes the entire first day to get them out of their bad habits.

 

[ac427cobra]

You want to go armed to your first OT event with as much information as humanly possible. Classroom, in car instructor, rides from other drivers etc. The more you know, the better you'll do. Also the more exposure you get to different instructors will also help as well. Everybody has a little different idea as to what is the best way around a track.

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[laruei]

Sweet, sounds like class is the way to start. I read the primer listed here and found it informative i just want to get out and actually put the information to good use.

So can anyone reccomend a school near me?

Thanks all

 

[David Hester]

SCCA PDX or NASA HPDE are relatively inexpensive. I'm sure Jim Russell, Skip Barber or someone has a school close. Expect to spend 5 times as much $$, though.
Mustang Club of America has track days at Nashville Speedway and Carolina Motorsports Park in Kershaw, SC every year. Might check out MCA for local chapter.
I've instructed with several groups and Yes, there are some bad habits to unlearn. Karts are a bonus, though!
Have fun!

 

[gcassidy]

I went out for my first HPDE with an instructor a month ago. My car is completely stock and my tires were, for the most part, bald and slippery. I flushed the brake lines, filled the tires to 36 all around, topped off all the fluids, cleaned everything out of the car and trunk, including the spare, and went for it. Man, it was a blast until I lost a valve stem and had to limp home. I had a little bit of brake fade/soft pedal but other than that the car did great. I was definately the limiting factor. I recommend bringing a small compressed air tank with you so you can adjust tire pressures to reduce tire roll and understeer, or deal with a slow leaker.

Since then I have new tires put on, braided brake lines are waiting to be put on, and I am waiting for Anthony's brake cooling kit to arrive. I'll get these on when I get back home and hopefully get another day on the track in July.

I'd start simple and find out what you need to go faster rather than trying to get your car just right. Make sure the fluids are good and it doesn't leak any out and just get out there and have some fun. You'll learn pretty quick that you need more practice before you are consistantly at the limits of your car's ability.

Sounds like you have your priorities correct. But did they tech you where ever you got on track with bald tires (I assume we're not talking slicks here-LOL).

Sweet, sounds like class is the way to start. I read the primer listed here and found it informative i just want to get out and actually put the information to good use.

So can anyone reccomend a school near me?

Thanks all

Here's a few to start going through. Find out where you are, where the tracks are, and who runs events there.

http://socal.drivenasa.com/

http://www.scca.org/divisions.aspx?div=sp

http://www.opentracking.com/

http://www.opentrackaction.com/event_search3.php

http://www.trackschedule.com/

Get info on tracks near you...
http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Tracks_in_the_United_States_Of_America

We have groups here in the east like Mazda Driving Ass. ( http://www.mazdadrivers.com/ ), PDA ( http://www.pdadrivingschool.com/ ) and EMRA ( http://www.emraracing.org/ ), there must be some local to only the west coast, too.

 

[brkntrxn]

www.motorsportreg.com is another good source

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

My comments in red, and I am assuming the car is an 03/04 Cobra

Not to high jack (i was going to start my own thread but this is on the same topic....), but i also live in SD and am interested in getting into open track.


My car currently has:
1. A 4 point roll bar (bolt in) from MM
2. 4.10's in the rear that are on their way out.. i have a set of stock 3.55's in a complete pumpkin waiting to get installed when they break.
3. 2000 R Brembo's up front with braided lines
4. Hawk pads out back with stock rubber lines...
5. Drilled rotors front and back (Relegate these to street duty with your street pads)

6. Full Bassani exhaust (headers, catted x, cat back
^
Those are all the things i bought the car with.

I added:
1. FIPK
2. Amazon tune that im still getting worked out. (it was a little lean, its since been reflashed i just havent been back to the dyno to check A/F's)(You will want to run fairly rich 11.1-10.7 while tracking, pull a little timing too)

3. Air tube blowing onto filter from bumper (I wrote the how too, check it out to see what im talking about..) (I would use this for street duty too, and connect some brake cooling ducts to those nipples for tracking, it's what they were put there for...and ... you will soon need them.)

4. MGW Orange
5. 1" Bolt on wheel spacers (prob take those off for the track for safety? YES )

6. New car smell, air freshener :rollseyes

I want to get the car in tip top shape before i spend a grand to race it and have something horrable go wrong on the track...as i said the diff is clucking a little bit and i have flushed it 3 times and its finally getting a little better but its still not great, thus the backup.. (hold off on the diff until you are ready to do the Delrin, then have it diagnosed it could be wiped out pinion bushings)

How much prep work should i do before showing up to actually race? I keep the car VERY well maintained in the maintenance department. As in Mobil 1 in the trans, Royal Purple in the diff, early oil changes things like that.

I have a small list that i would like to do before racing. Please let me know if this is over kill and not needed for the first few times out.

1. Stock, undrilled and unslotted rotors for the track (YES Most definitely! and bed in your track pads to them carefully)

2. A different set of front pads for the track (since they are easy on the brembos) (YES bed them in correctly)

3. ATE super blue brake fluid (that's what I use just make sure it's FRESH! In other words not in the car longer than 6 weeks. I change mine the day before an event and I bring more with me.)

4. Different tires i have about 65% tread on my ES100's which grip pretty well im my opinion but arent the best... (65% tread = use these up! no need to change them)

5. Change the diff to the stock 3.55's (Wait for the Delrin, and even then depending on the tracks you run you may want to keep them)

6. IRS bracing (not needed unless you are also drag racing or seeing lots of wheel hop....just lift.)

7. Poly IRS bushing (NO NO NO) or DELRIN (YES YES YES)

As a little back fill i owned a s2000 previously and never raced it but always wanted too, when i got rid of it i set a goal to get the cobra to handle as well as the s2000's do. (I'm sorry but that is an unrealistic goal. How about turn laps close to the same times or faster?)
My original plan was to purchase the road and track box from MM.. since reading i have learned that since im inexperienced in racing i should hold off on that and spend that money on teaching myself how to drive better. YES!

So the question is... leave the car the way it is and make small adjustments mentioned above and "go to school" or just take it out and drive it and assume im doing it right till i run off the track?

Sorry for the long winded post just looking to set it all out on the table.

THANKS!

What you want for rapid driver development with the maximum bang for the buck, is open track events with classroom and in car instruction.

Run you car in as stock a state as possible suspension and power wise.

Run tires that are safe and have tread but might otherwise be considered "stones".
Every time your car slips and wiggles you gain extremely valuable recovery experience!

 

[laruei]

Wow man, thanks a ton!

Ill put all those ideas to good use.

Now do you see any reason why i shouldnt (for aesthetic reasons mostly) lower my car on H&R race springs. It still is a street car and i think the 4x4 look is over rated. I know you stated that close to stock as possble is best for learning im just wondering if it would really be that different. At the same time i would get the MM Caster Camber plates and a good alignment of course.

Also why is close to stock better? As i get faster i would at some point upgrade the suspension and surrounding parts to make the car better. Why wouldnt i start with a car close to my "end point" in upgrades and learn how to drive that better?


Thanks for the time in advance.

:beer:

 

[ac427cobra]

Learning how to drive an ill handling car (your car stock, on street tires) will teach you invaluable lessons on car control that you simply cannot learn with a car that handles good and sticks to the track.

Once you learn how to control a car going through a turn in a four wheel drift (steering half with the steering wheel and the other half with the throttle) then you will be ready to start upgrading the car's handling. If you upgrade the handling you're going to miss out on learning how to drive a car at or at least near the limit. You don't want to miss out on that. Trust me. It WILL make you a better driver in the long run.

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[laruei]

Ok, you talked me into it.. im gonna hold off on the springs. Ill likely buy them so that i have them sitting and taunting me...

So when is the next race day?! Im freaking stoked..wait i need to search for that..

Is there a thread for people that get together in Southern CA to go to track days?

Thanks!

 

[laruei]

Also, do you guys think a different compund for the front brakes would be best? Or just some stock replacements?

Anyone know where i can get a different compound for the R calipers if needed?

And should i worry about changing the rear brakes? as far as pads and rotors back to non drilled?

thanks

 

[laruei]

Chris
If you want you can tag along with me for some Nasa DE's or when any other track days that are going on.
Where in SD are you?

HOLY SH!T.. awesome dude i just read about your car yesterday in MMFF! Congrats man nice car!

:beer:

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Even though they probably would not crack on the back, I would still change the rear rotors also. You have to pull the caliper off to do rear pads anyway. Save those bling rotors for the street.

Pad choices are kind of like color preferences anymore. There are lots of really good pads out there.
I run Carbotech pads. http://www.ctbrakes.com/faqs.html
Carbotech likes you to run a new rotor with their pads. For your use I would go AX6 front/ Bobcats in the rear, and you can drive on the street with these and get some heat cycles in those new rotors and pads.

BTW: I would go ahead and get the caster camber plates fairly soon after getting the brake cooling ducts on, but do hold off on the springs.

 

[brkntrxn]

Do everything these guys suggested and you will be having fun very quickly.

To add to Bruce and Jimmy's comments on leaving the car stock, think about it this way. You are going to make a lot of mistakes for quite a few weekends. I am not saying a few sessions, I am saying a lot of events. There isn't a person in this forum (ok, maybe one or two) that can truthfully say they have ever put in a perfect lap.

By keeping your car stock, you will learn what happens when the rear kicks out, the front pushes, the rear snaps back on your, you go into a four wheel drift, you miss a shift, and so on at comparibly lower speeds than after the car is modified. Any modifications you do to the car will cover up your minor mistakes and allow you to go that much faster. Then when you do make a medium to significant mistake, you are going to be hauling that much faster, need to react that much quicker and need to know that much better what to do. It is best if you build up to it.

Like stated above, it will make you a better driver. And don't turn down an opportunity to drive on track in the rain (although I hear that never happens in southern Cali).

A fast driver will be fast in any car. A slow driver can only be fast in a fast car. One of these days, I hope to be referred to as a fast driver. Until then, I will keep spending 300 a pop to learn from the fast drivers.

 

[laruei]

Ok...

First does anyone have a good site to get these pads from? And should i get REAL ford rotors or since these pads usually eat rotors alive can i get the cheap autozone/schucks/pep boys rotors?

Second, is everyone saying its ok to upgrade the brakes for the first time out? "Upgrade" as in carbotech pads and non-slotted/drilled rotors.

Third, with NASA HPDE's... i read the site and it was very limited to say the least.. basically there was a story of a guy who did it and a run down of what you do when your out there.. it didnt say HOW you could actually get involved and do it.. i assume you have to sign up as it says sign up today...bla bla so i went to the sign up page and it says for a membership its 44 dollars.. now ive been price checking and getting someone to sit in your car and instruct you costs a HELL of a lot more then 44 dollars... whats the catch?

Thanks

 

[gcassidy]

Leave it to "laid back LA" to screw up something as simple as online registration. Here's how NASA Mid-Atlantic does it:
http://nasaracing.net/sched_regis.htm

If you go to TireRack, you have many brands of brake pads to choose from, not that that neccessarly makes it easier. http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/products/pads.jsp

And many people just order blank Brembo replacement rotors from there, too. http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=Brembo&model=Replacement+Rotor
Diversified Racing (DBA Buy Ford Racing) is also a good place for rotors and lots of other cool stuff. http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/index.php?cPath=6

Like Jimmy says, there's many choices of pads out there. If you do a search, you'll find just as many drivers who like the ones they use over others. I think the best approace is to pick one manufacturer's line for your track and street pads, and stick with it until you've gained the knowledge to decide what you and your car need out of your brakes. And it's OK to do pads, brake fluid (and in your case-rotors) before your first event. :thumbsup:

 

[dragon40k]

This may be obvious but if you DO get new rotors make sure to season them (heat cycle) before you get on a track with them. Without seasoning they are more likely to crack.
Some advice from a fellow noob. Listen to your instructor even if what he is telling you doesn't make sense at the time. It will most likely make sense when the part of your brain that drives a car gets more developed.

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Did you find that the instructor helped your driving or would you reccomend that i just go to a open track day after reading the primer and getting as much info as possible?

Without any doubt the instructor was very helpful. I paid $275 for the day. This guy was a retired Skip Barber instructor. Anyway, the best was when I was trying everything to understand what he was telling me on two corners, but just not getting them right. He drove my car around these corners and showed me what he was trying to tell me and it made so much more sense. After that I was much improved. With his help, by the end of the day, when my valve stem crapped on me, I was planning understeer and oversteer into a few corners, shifting second, third, and fourth pretty smoothly, had some planned four wheel drifts going on and it was a blast. I was able to select a few corners to push the limits on while trying to dial in the others just to find the right line.

I have stock rotors with Satisfied Gran Sport break pads and they worked pretty well, faded a little bit in the heat of the day near the last turn but cooled a little on the main straight. Most of the day I was engaging the antilock on most corners.

One more piece of advice that I learned: Pay attention to yourself and your concentration level. Once you start missing a turn in or two do a cool down lap and take a 30 minute break. It takes a lot of concentration to drive fast so take your time and understand your personal limts so you don' hurt yourself, hurt some one else, or wreck your car.
Eat some noodles the night before and some bananas for breakfast and bring some granola bars and water to snack on during the day to keep your energy up.