My tires are michelin PSS. I would have to go measure the car but they are lowered by FRPP springs and I'm not going lower than the drop they gave. On the Steeda relocation bracket if you count the top as 1, my lca are on the 3rd hole. Or 2nd to last from the bottom. That means the LCA essentially are almost parallel but slightly dip down on the side that is by the rear tire.
How to get even more traction
- Thread starter shelbysvt
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My tires are michelin PSS. I would have to go measure the car but they are lowered by FRPP springs and I'm not going lower than the drop they gave. On the Steeda relocation bracket if you count the top as 1, my lca are on the 3rd hole. Or 2nd to last from the bottom. That means the LCA essentially are almost parallel but slightly dip down on the side that is by the rear tire.
Van@RevanRacing
Active Member
A torque arm dramatically changes the suspension geometry. It moves the instant center to the middle of the car.
I had a torque arm on my 2007 and I use that as a point of reference with my customers. I have not done a Torque Arm on my 2013 because I plan to use and track Griggs new Watts link with the BMR upper third link because some people do not like to weld on their cars and I want to be able to discuss the differences in handling with just the new Griggs Watts Link which FYI WILL retain the stock differential cover.
epper:The torque arm has plates that weld to the frame rails on both sides under the car for the torque arm carry point.
The torque arm enhances traction dramatically however because it attaches to the differential it can transfer gear noise into the cabin of the car. It's single biggest down side is nosie. Many don't complain of the noise and others dynamat the interior of the car to eliminate noise all together.
The Adjustable LCA's enable you to dial in the thrust angle which counteracts oversteer which enables the driver to have fewer steering input for correction which translates to improved traction.
A friend of mine in Seattle installed the torque arm. His best quarter mile pass pre-torque arm was an 11.90. After the torque arm in similar run conditions with the same tire he improved his 60' and overall traction performance and had a new best ET of 11.56. The only change was the torque arm.
Gotcha. So I would guess the LCA is about 2-3/4" down from the factory position.
In order for me to work out the details, I really need to know ride-height and the LCA position in relation to the factory mounting point. Whenever you can provide this, I will let you know what I think, in terms of where they should be. I think you are pretty close, but small changes can make a world of difference.
In order for me to work out the details, I really need to know ride-height and the LCA position in relation to the factory mounting point. Whenever you can provide this, I will let you know what I think, in terms of where they should be. I think you are pretty close, but small changes can make a world of difference.
A torque arm dramatically changes the suspension geometry. It moves the instant center to the middle of the car.
I had a torque arm on my 2007 and I use that as a point of reference with my customers. I have not done a Torque Arm on my 2013 because I plan to use and track Griggs new Watts link with the BMR upper third link because some people do not like to weld on their cars and I want to be able to discuss the differences in handling with just the new Griggs Watts Link which FYI WILL retain the stock differential cover.
The torque arm has plates that weld to the frame rails on both sides under the car for the torque arm carry point.
The torque arm enhances traction dramatically however because it attaches to the differential it can transfer gear noise into the cabin of the car. It's single biggest down side is nosie. Many don't complain of the noise and others dynamat the interior of the car to eliminate noise all together.
The Adjustable LCA's enable you to dial in the thrust angle which counteracts oversteer which enables the driver to have fewer steering input for correction which translates to improved traction.
A friend of mine in Seattle installed the torque arm. His best quarter mile pass pre-torque arm was an 11.90. After the torque arm in similar run conditions with the same tire he improved his 60' and overall traction performance and had a new best ET of 11.56. The only change was the torque arm.
Hmmmm if griggs make this watts link in a way that doesn't increase noise like whiteline's then they will deffinitely have a winner. But if it retains the stock cover where is it going to mounted? Hopefully not the axle like steeda or fays.
Well I can't say how far off it is from stock because my car is no longer stock lol. Unless someone here with a stock suspension wants to measure and then I can measure mine and we can compare.
Van@RevanRacing
Active Member
Not on the axle. That's not a real watts link.
So on what part of the OEM differential is it going to attach securely to? *key word being securely*
I bought a 13-6 and Van's rear traction kit just the other day and I begged him to let me buy the badass looking billet LCA just because they look 10x better than the adjustables, but Van wouldn't let me, just kidding (don't want to get you in trouble with the BMR rep since he's in the thread) but he convinced me to buy the on-car-adjustable ones and i am glad the more i read about all of this.
I haven't had a Mustang since a 1985 GT and I just bought a 2013 Shelby and really like it, but first thing I noticed is how easily it wants to break traction.
I didn't order the lowering springs and now I'm thinking maybe I should have, how important are they to all of these other mods and I read one guy earlier talking about lowering just the rear maybe? Did i read that correctly? If the rear is too high maybe just lowering the rear 1/2-1" would be good?
You guys keep talking and I'll keep learning.
Thanks again Van, you obviously steered me in the right direction on everything I bought and I'm sure the KB is right around the corner.
Also I was under the impression that some of those tires like the Michelin sport cup, Toyo 888, NT05 (not NT05R) that are geared for circle tracks aren't really any better at the drag strip than say the Michelin super sport, but maybe I'm wrong.
Has anyone done any back to back comparisons or know for certain that the drag radials and the Dot R track tires are on the same level? If that makes any sense?
Also one more question: 18" will work on the rears I assume, but I get some fitment issues at websites when I tried to buy some Forgestar 18x10 for the rear of the 2013 Shelby. Anyone know why, is it just the Forgestar that are funny about the 18's? And do the "track pack" have less clearance for tire width than the non "track pack" cars? I would love to just buy a 19x10 for a spare set of rears, but the 19" drag radials are pretty scarce. I think I only found one in the 305 size.
OP, I know it's been said before but buy a set of $700 wheels in 18-20" and buy some good drag radials and have a buddy follow you to the track with a good jack and some tools and swap out there or home before you go. That's my plan anyway. You can also "cherry pick" your tire diameter to kind of alter your gear ratio. I'm looking at going down about an inch in tire diameter which will effectively get me in the vicinity of a 3.45 gear set. You on the other may want to go up in diameter from the OEM 27.9" and the Michelin ss are the same. Good luck.
Has anyone done any back to back comparisons or know for certain that the drag radials and the Dot R track tires are on the same level? If that makes any sense?
Also one more question: 18" will work on the rears I assume, but I get some fitment issues at websites when I tried to buy some Forgestar 18x10 for the rear of the 2013 Shelby. Anyone know why, is it just the Forgestar that are funny about the 18's? And do the "track pack" have less clearance for tire width than the non "track pack" cars? I would love to just buy a 19x10 for a spare set of rears, but the 19" drag radials are pretty scarce. I think I only found one in the 305 size.
OP, I know it's been said before but buy a set of $700 wheels in 18-20" and buy some good drag radials and have a buddy follow you to the track with a good jack and some tools and swap out there or home before you go. That's my plan anyway. You can also "cherry pick" your tire diameter to kind of alter your gear ratio. I'm looking at going down about an inch in tire diameter which will effectively get me in the vicinity of a 3.45 gear set. You on the other may want to go up in diameter from the OEM 27.9" and the Michelin ss are the same. Good luck.
The only reason I got FRPP springs was for the most minimal drop, no sacrifice in ride quality, and to get rid of the obnoxious front nose brake dive this car had on stock springs.
I wouldn't put 700 dollar cheap wheels on this car. It would add to the rotational mass and do more harm than good and it would ride like a$$. Thats why I spent the money to get lighter HRE wheels even in 20s they are still 6 pounds per rim lighter. And with the michelin tires I dropped 10 pounds per wheel for 40 pounds total of rotational mass. I could have went even further with p40sc but I don't think any mustang buyer will pay over 4k for these wheels when it comes to sell the car, so that extra money on the SC line would have been wasted. I'll save SCs for the viper
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where did you get this? I actually bought some extremely cheap wheels for a different mustang I had and when I took them to get tires on them at tirerack's headquarters they checked them for how "round" they were and they were VERY impressed. Also, they didn't take as many sticky weights as my stock Alcoa's on my SRT (different car) did!
I mean you can check weights of rims and rotational mass does mean a ton but how do you know they aren't actually lighter then stock?
and for the record the cheap rims flaked... so thats my complaint about cheap rims haha
The reason is that cheap rims usually are not made from aluminum at 700 dollars nor are they forged. If they are cast steel they are heavy as hell. Even cast aluminum is heavy. The alcoas are only like 2 pounds lighter than stock and they are the cheapest forged aluminum wheels out there.
The Forgestar wheels are light also. I don't know exactly what the factory wheels weigh but I have heard 30lbs. The Forgestars are 21lbs but in all honesty I am more concerned about traction that shaving weight off.
So do you think those tires work the same as drag radials or are they more geared for circle track racing?
So do you think those tires work the same as drag radials or are they more geared for circle track racing?
ANY sticky tire compound will work better at the drag strip. The difference is most handling tires have stiff sidewalls, the opposite of what you want to launch at the strip.
Ex--the Toyo R888 is the same compound as the Nitto DR but stiffer sidewall. Dame as the Nitto 555R and RII with the RII using a stiffer sidewall (and maybe slightly deeper tread depth) with same rubber.
-J
Ex--the Toyo R888 is the same compound as the Nitto DR but stiffer sidewall. Dame as the Nitto 555R and RII with the RII using a stiffer sidewall (and maybe slightly deeper tread depth) with same rubber.
-J
Great information in this thread. Not the OP but things were cleared up enough for me to decide what I need, I will be ordering my BMR stuff shortly Van.
I have double adjustable LCA's on my Buick but use an anti-roll bar to adjust whether it tracks straight under hard acceleration so I learned some great stuff here!
I have double adjustable LCA's on my Buick but use an anti-roll bar to adjust whether it tracks straight under hard acceleration so I learned some great stuff here!
Do you take the Buick to Milan or any local tracks?
I'd love to see it, maybe give you a run in my LX :rockon:
-J
Got the rear suspension upgrades and springs installed yesterday. Wow, what a difference. Still have to respect the throttle, but this really dials it it in. A big thank you to Van for the recommendation and help! I can't believe I hesitated. The small drop is certainly a nice side effect, car looks great. I am using the factory GYs too.
I went with Van's recommendation as well and installed FRPP springs, BMR lower control arm relocation brackets with Bob's LCA's, BMR adjustable Panhard rod and upper brace. I also added at the time this was all installed the whiteline upper control arm and new mount. My experience is the same as many have posted here. When it does break loose its pretty straight. I tend not to push it hard through corners on city streets for obvious reasons but it is definitely flatter on cornering than it was stock. I actually do not have much trouble with the stock tires for my daily driving. I have an 8 mile drive to the freeway and I can get on it full all through second gear without it breaking loose on me. First is a different story, even with warmed tires. I have yet to launch it though and wont even try until I get to a track so for my normal driving its set up really great.
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