how about some general respect

[BillyGman]

Billy, I was not intending to get supercharged, but within the last few weeks, I have been seriously considering it. I'll wait till next summer because I want to give Procharger some market time and reviews. Also, I might consider turbo charging if someone comes out with a kit. We all know Trilogy is a proven kit.

However, TMAC has a valid point. If you have never driven a Procharger MM, how can you be so sure it's "inferior"? Just curious.

Uhmm, yeah, Like I'm supposed to take that question seriously after you set me and TMAC up for yet another debate with your question about if this thread is some kinda battle against him and I.

But I'll answer your question anyway for the benefit of other readers, even though I don't take you seriously at all......

Centrifugal S/Cer are much better for lightweight cars, and all the experienced experts will tell you that. They're not suited for a heavy car like the Marauder at all. Especially one with a a small 281 cubed engine which grossly lacks low-end torque from the factory as it is, and is sluggish off the line. The roots supercharger makes up for that deficiency, and will do so w/out going with a very high stall speed such as 3,500 RPM's like most of the centrifugal equipped Marauder owners are doing now because they're seeing that their cars just don't move good off the line w/out a 3,500 RPM stall speed, and that's a pretty high stall speed for a dialy driver, and the higher you go with the stall speed, the more potential there is for heat build-up in the transmission. I have the rear gears and a 3,000 stall speed simply because I opted for those mods before I had the Trilogy supercharger, and before I even ever thought that I'd supercharge this car. There are many Trilogy equipped Marauder owners who have remained with the factory stall speed of 2,400 RPM's since that's all you really need with a roots supercharger on a V8 engine, and most street cams.

Below is a quote I've taken from a car magazine(Muscle Mustang & Fast Fords) which happens to be posted by a moderator on the Marauder board which clearly states that roots blowers are much better for heavy vehicles, and centrifugals are better suited for vehicles of such weights as "3,000 LBS". And keep in mind that this magazine article wasn't about one particular brand or type of supercharger, but was about ALL types. So apparently I'm not alone in my theory.......


"If there is a downside to the centrifugal superchargers, it\'s that they rely on rpm to make boost and they give up low-rpm performance to the Roots and screw units in this department. Nevertheless, they are generally more efficient at making boost in the higher rpm ranges.

Today there is a huge number of blower kits available to Mustang and Lightning owners. The choices can be overwhelming, but we\'ve found that picking the right blower requires nothing more than a little research on your part. The key to finding the best one for your combination is to select a unit that can supply the most efficient level of boost in the rpm range that you\'re building your engine for. In addition, consider the combination as a whole. For instance, heavier vehicles need more torque than lighter ones do and that\'s why the Eaton, Magnum Powers or Kenne Bell is the best choice for a 4,500-pound Lightning. But a Paxton, Powerdyne, ProCharger, Vortech may be the way to go for your 3,000-pound LX."

So there you have it....keep in mind that a Marauder weighs in at 4,200 LBS, and that's w/out gas, or a driver. I drove my Marauder onto the scale at the dragstrip, and with me weighing 205LBS inside of it, and a half tank of gas, it tipped the scales at a whopping 4,444 LBS.

 

[dougwg]

can't you guys play nice?

 

[MarauderTJA]

Uhmm, yeah, Like I'm supposed to take that question seriously after you set me and TMAC up for yet another debate with your question about if this thread is some kinda battle against him and I.

But I'll answer your question anyway for the benefit of other readers, even though I don't take you seriously at all......

Centrifugal S/Cer are much better for lightweight cars, and all the experienced experts will tell you that. They're not suited for a heavy car like the Marauder at all. Especially one with a a small 281 cubed engine which grossly lacks low-end torque from the factory as it is, and is sluggish off the line. The roots supercharger makes up for that deficiency, and will do so w/out going with a very high stall speed such as 3,500 RPM's like most of the centrifugal equipped Marauder owners are doing now because they're seeing that their cars just don't move good off the line w/out a 3,500 RPM stall speed, and that's a pretty high stall speed for a dialy driver, and the higher you go with the stall speed, the more potential there is for heat build-up in the transmission. I have the rear gears and a 3,000 stall speed simply because I opted for those mods before I had the Trilogy supercharger, and before I even ever thought that I'd supercharge this car. There are many Trilogy equipped Marauder owners who have remained with the factory stall speed of 2,400 RPM's since that's all you really need with a roots supercharger on a V8 engine, and most street cams.

Below is a quote I've taken from a car magazine(Muscle Mustang & Fast Fords) which happens to be posted by a moderator on the Marauder board which clearly states that roots blowers are much better for heavy vehicles, and centrifugals are better suited for vehicles of such weights as "3,000 LBS". And keep in mind that this magazine article wasn't about one particular brand or type of supercharger, but was about ALL types. So apparently I'm not alone in my theory.......


"If there is a downside to the centrifugal superchargers, it\'s that they rely on rpm to make boost and they give up low-rpm performance to the Roots and screw units in this department. Nevertheless, they are generally more efficient at making boost in the higher rpm ranges.

Today there is a huge number of blower kits available to Mustang and Lightning owners. The choices can be overwhelming, but we\'ve found that picking the right blower requires nothing more than a little research on your part. The key to finding the best one for your combination is to select a unit that can supply the most efficient level of boost in the rpm range that you\'re building your engine for. In addition, consider the combination as a whole. For instance, heavier vehicles need more torque than lighter ones do and that\'s why the Eaton, Magnum Powers or Kenne Bell is the best choice for a 4,500-pound Lightning. But a Paxton, Powerdyne, ProCharger, Vortech may be the way to go for your 3,000-pound LX."

So there you have it....keep in mind that a Marauder weighs in at 4,200 LBS, and that's w/out gas, or a driver. I drove my Marauder onto the scale at the dragstrip, and with me weighing 205LBS inside of it, and a half tank of gas, it tipped the scales at a whopping 4,444 LBS.

Billy, I agree with you in basic theory and respect your opinion. However, a major component which is important which you have not mentioned that gives our cars far more low end power/torque and boost, even for the centrifugal blower, are the four valve heads. These heads can move tremendous volumes of air. Thus the high RWHP and TQ for all the blowers, roots or centrifugal. This along with the four over head cams give our cars serious power in torque and horsepower well over two valve cylinder head engines. However, I do have a 3000 speed converter (4.10's) and, I do not lack low end power whatsoever. I can smoke the tires at will from a dead stop or at 35 MPH. More than enough low end for me or any daily dirver, to which my car is (22K in one year). Granted torque is extremely necessary for our heavy cars, but as you know the converter/gears makes up for the lack of low end that the roots blower has naturally.

I really am looking forward to our getting together, hopefully Labor Day weekend while I am in Trenton, NJ. The most important reason to me is for you to drive my car. Racing you is secondary. But I will have my drag radials on the car and be ready for that too. I am really and truly confident that your opinion will change and you will be equally surprised. I say this due to my friends here in Florida who have Trilogy cars with and without our mods that have told me this. I am confident in my saying this as you will agree when you get the chance to take my car for a spirited drive.

TOM

 

[DJP]

Uhmm, yeah, Like I'm supposed to take that question seriously after you set me and TMAC up for yet another debate with your question about if this thread is some kinda battle against him and I.

But I'll answer your question anyway for the benefit of other readers, even though I don't take you seriously at all......

Centrifugal S/Cer are much better for lightweight cars, and all the experienced experts will tell you that. They're not suited for a heavy car like the Marauder at all. Especially one with a a small 281 cubed engine which grossly lacks low-end torque from the factory as it is, and is sluggish off the line. The roots supercharger makes up for that deficiency, and will do so w/out going with a very high stall speed such as 3,500 RPM's like most of the centrifugal equipped Marauder owners are doing now because they're seeing that their cars just don't move good off the line w/out a 3,500 RPM stall speed, and that's a pretty high stall speed for a dialy driver, and the higher you go with the stall speed, the more potential there is for heat build-up in the transmission. I have the rear gears and a 3,000 stall speed simply because I opted for those mods before I had the Trilogy supercharger, and before I even ever thought that I'd supercharge this car. There are many Trilogy equipped Marauder owners who have remained with the factory stall speed of 2,400 RPM's since that's all you really need with a roots supercharger on a V8 engine, and most street cams.

Below is a quote I've taken from a car magazine(Muscle Mustang & Fast Fords) which happens to be posted by a moderator on the Marauder board which clearly states that roots blowers are much better for heavy vehicles, and centrifugals are better suited for vehicles of such weights as "3,000 LBS". And keep in mind that this magazine article wasn't about one particular brand or type of supercharger, but was about ALL types. So apparently I'm not alone in my theory.......


"If there is a downside to the centrifugal superchargers, it\'s that they rely on rpm to make boost and they give up low-rpm performance to the Roots and screw units in this department. Nevertheless, they are generally more efficient at making boost in the higher rpm ranges.

Today there is a huge number of blower kits available to Mustang and Lightning owners. The choices can be overwhelming, but we\'ve found that picking the right blower requires nothing more than a little research on your part. The key to finding the best one for your combination is to select a unit that can supply the most efficient level of boost in the rpm range that you\'re building your engine for. In addition, consider the combination as a whole. For instance, heavier vehicles need more torque than lighter ones do and that\'s why the Eaton, Magnum Powers or Kenne Bell is the best choice for a 4,500-pound Lightning. But a Paxton, Powerdyne, ProCharger, Vortech may be the way to go for your 3,000-pound LX."

So there you have it....keep in mind that a Marauder weighs in at 4,200 LBS, and that's w/out gas, or a driver. I drove my Marauder onto the scale at the dragstrip, and with me weighing 205LBS inside of it, and a half tank of gas, it tipped the scales at a whopping 4,444 LBS.

Nice post. So I can now safely assume that you have never driven a Marauder equipped with a Procharger and your opinion is based on what you have read. Thanks.

 

[MarauderTJA]

Drive my Procharger Car!

Nice post. So I can now safely assume that you have never driven a Marauder equipped with a Procharger and your opinion is based on what you have read. Thanks.

I will be in Trenton, New Jersey with time off during the entire Labor Day Weekend. Any Marauder guy in the region who is considering moving up to a S/C car is "welcome to take my car for a drive." This is an open invitation. I will post what hotel I am staying at and can PM you my cell phone number. A drive tends to make opinions change radically. So any of you guys out there, let me know.

TOM

 

[DJP]

I will be in Trenton, New Jersey with time off during the entire Labor Day Weekend. Any Marauder guy in the region who is considering moving up to a S/C car is "welcome to take my car for a drive." This is an open invitation. I will post what hotel I am staying at and can PM you my cell phone number. A drive tends to make opinions change radically. So any of you guys out there, let me know.

TOM

Thanks, Tom. I just PM'd you a contact number - Dave.

 

[BillyGman]

Billy, I agree with you in basic theory and respect your opinion. However, a major component which is important which you have not mentioned that gives our cars far more low end power/torque and boost, even for the centrifugal blower, are the four valve heads. These heads can move tremendous volumes of air. Thus the high RWHP and TQ for all the blowers, roots or centrifugal. This along with the four over head cams give our cars serious power in torque and horsepower well over two valve cylinder head engines. However, I do have a 3000 speed converter (4.10's) and, I do not lack low end power whatsoeverTOM

Tom, your car is pushing 500 HP to the wheels which is 100 HP above mine as well as most of the supercharged Marauders out there. So your car is NOT the typical case. If you cannot beat my car in a race with having 100 HP more, and 3 lbs of boost more than my car does, then that would be pretty pathetic. The match you're proposing would mean absolutely nothing.

Most of the supercharger packages for the Marauder that are available offer 8-10 PSI of boost pressure, unless the buyer alters them like you have. My car has the same 9.5 PSI of boost pressure that the original Trilogy kit comes with, and my car is my daily driver that get's driven 12 months out of the year even in the snow, and sees nothing but 93 octane pump gasoline. My car also has the original stock bottom end, and the stock internals haven't been replaced with forged internals either. And it runs fine, and has done so for 20,000 supercharged miles now (31,000 total miles).

With 500 RWHP and and atleast 12 LBS of boost along with a higher than stock stall speed, I certainly hope that your car can get off the line well and perform some good burnouts! If my Trilogy/roots supercharger was pullied to be pumping out 12 PSI of boost like your car is, then we would be able to see what's what. But what you're talking about is NOT an apples to apples comparisant at all.

Furthermore, I thankyou for your post, but you don't need to convince me that your car is fast. But that doesn't mean that a roots supercharger that's also pushing 12+ LBS of boost like your centrifugal is, wouldn't have been a better choice for your car. And I disagree with you about the 4 valve cylinder heads making any difference down low in the RPM scale. If that were true, then that would mean that a bone stock Marauder would out accelerate a 16 valve engine Crown Vic during the first 30 or 60 feet of a race. And from what I hear, they don't. Usually the more a cylinder head design provides better breathing up high in the RPM scale, the less effective they are at making low-end power, which is the same with camshaft designs.

So apparently what you guys are saying is that this article taken from Muscle Mustang & fast Fords magazine is ALL wrong. Right? Sorry, but I dont think so. If you enjoy your saupercharged Marauders, then that's all that matters, right? Anything over and above that means that you're just trying to be advertisements for the supercharger company of your choice, which is the same thing that your demented buddy TMAC has accused me of doing in the past.

Let's come back down to earth here. Shall we? The main point of this thread was basically a complaint about people not congratulating someone for their choice of supercharger. And I've already addressed that issue in my first post. If what I said doesn't sit right with you, then there's nothing to be done about that. If you had a Marauder equipped with the standard and basic centrifugal supercharger kit along with the pulley that it originally comes with pushing 8 or 9 PSI of boost, along with the stock torque converter with 2,400 RPM stall speed and the 3.55 gears like many Trilogy customers have, and you wanted to come here and give me a ride in your car, then I'd be glad to take you up on that.

But no matter how impressed I might be from a ride in your 500 HP monster, that still wouldn't convince me that a roots supercharger isn't the better choice for a heavy vehicle like the Marauder. So there it sits, and nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise. But it really isn't all that important that you convince me otherwise as far as I'm concerned. And it doesn't mean that we cannot be friends either. Which is exactly the point of my first post here.

But two jokers in this thread have desperately tried to turn my original point into something else. It seems that the stakes are pretty high for those two people. I don't know why that is, but it really doesn't matter to me either. I'm just a car buff, and a very satisfied Trilogy customer out of many. Nothing more.

 

[DJP]

Oh, brother. If I could channel hot air into cold, I could use my PC to power my ride.

 

[BillyGman]

Oh, brother. If I could channel hot air into cold, I could use my PC to power my ride.

Translation: You haven't any valid argument to finish the debate that you have helped to start. Thankyou....... And now I'm done with this rediculous thread.

 

[tmac1337]

:sleeping:

 

[Tallboy]

Demented: Insane. Afflicted with dementia. Irreversible deterioration of intellectual faculties with concomitant emotional disturbance resulting from organic brain disorder. Madness. ;-)

----------------

Bully: A person who is habitually cruel to smaller or weaker people. Hired ruffian. To intimidate by size. A thug or gangster. "filthy or scabby person". Scab. Filth. Cutthroat. :mj:

Tim, you're being way too hard on yourself. Sure, you can come on a little strong at times, but I don't think you're a bully. Demented? That has to be determined by a psychiatrist, right?

 

[tmac1337]

I was the former.....not the latter :-D

And as for being accused of dementia, I'll have Navchap perform an exorcism on my brain the next time he is in town.

 

[maraudernkc]

Billy, below is Hwycruiser's Dyno sheet on his car. This is our stock kit making 9 PSI and he does have Cobra manifolds and the X pipe.

Our stock kit made 464RWHP and 425RWTQ on his car. That is with safe timing and A/F ratio. He did lean the A/F from about 11to1 to about 11.8to1 which is still very safe.

That run was withthe converter unlocked and it was 82 degrees inside the building. The RWHP would have been higher if we would have locked the converter but we don't play games. I know we don't have any low end power. That's why my tires are shredding off my car. :bash:

Also you car would have never run the 1/4 mile time it did without the help of the following.

Trilogy Kit
Drag radials
4:56 Gears
3000 Stall converter
Headers

The base Trilogy kits will run 13.0 and you know that is the truth.

Tom, your car is pushing 500 HP to the wheels which is 100 HP above mine as well as most of the supercharged Marauders out there. So your car is NOT the typical case. If you cannot beat my car in a race with having 100 HP more, and 3 lbs of boost more than my car does, then that would be pretty pathetic. The match you're proposing would mean absolutely nothing.

Most of the supercharger packages for the Marauder that are available offer 8-10 PSI of boost pressure, unless the buyer alters them like you have. My car has the same 9.5 PSI of boost pressure that the original Trilogy kit comes with, and my car is my daily driver that get's driven 12 months out of the year even in the snow, and sees nothing but 93 octane pump gasoline. My car also has the original stock bottom end, and the stock internals haven't been replaced with forged internals either. And it runs fine, and has done so for 20,000 supercharged miles now (31,000 total miles).

With 500 RWHP and and atleast 12 LBS of boost along with a higher than stock stall speed, I certainly hope that your car can get off the line well and perform some good burnouts! If my Trilogy/roots supercharger was pullied to be pumping out 12 PSI of boost like your car is, then we would be able to see what's what. But what you're talking about is NOT an apples to apples comparisant at all.

Furthermore, I thankyou for your post, but you don't need to convince me that your car is fast. But that doesn't mean that a roots supercharger that's also pushing 12+ LBS of boost like your centrifugal is, wouldn't have been a better choice for your car. And I disagree with you about the 4 valve cylinder heads making any difference down low in the RPM scale. If that were true, then that would mean that a bone stock Marauder would out accelerate a 16 valve engine Crown Vic during the first 30 or 60 feet of a race. And from what I hear, they don't. Usually the more a cylinder head design provides better breathing up high in the RPM scale, the less effective they are at making low-end power, which is the same with camshaft designs.

So apparently what you guys are saying is that this article taken from Muscle Mustang & fast Fords magazine is ALL wrong. Right? Sorry, but I dont think so. If you enjoy your saupercharged Marauders, then that's all that matters, right? Anything over and above that means that you're just trying to be advertisements for the supercharger company of your choice, which is the same thing that your demented buddy TMAC has accused me of doing in the past.

Let's come back down to earth here. Shall we? The main point of this thread was basically a complaint about people not congratulating someone for their choice of supercharger. And I've already addressed that issue in my first post. If what I said doesn't sit right with you, then there's nothing to be done about that. If you had a Marauder equipped with the standard and basic centrifugal supercharger kit along with the pulley that it originally comes with pushing 8 or 9 PSI of boost, along with the stock torque converter with 2,400 RPM stall speed and the 3.55 gears like many Trilogy customers have, and you wanted to come here and give me a ride in your car, then I'd be glad to take you up on that.

But no matter how impressed I might be from a ride in your 500 HP monster, that still wouldn't convince me that a roots supercharger isn't the better choice for a heavy vehicle like the Marauder. So there it sits, and nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise. But it really isn't all that important that you convince me otherwise as far as I'm concerned. And it doesn't mean that we cannot be friends either. Which is exactly the point of my first post here.

But two jokers in this thread have desperately tried to turn my original point into something else. It seems that the stakes are pretty high for those two people. I don't know why that is, but it really doesn't matter to me either. I'm just a car buff, and a very satisfied Trilogy customer out of many. Nothing more.

 

[MikesMerc]

Greg,

You know you have my support. I'll voice it again here....when set up the right way, the FIT kit makes an excellent SC kit for the Marauder.

I think what Billy is pointing out (as demostrated by the article he posted), is that with all other things being equal, the roots blower provides more power down low for a heavy car. That's hotrod 101 and is pretty much a basic fact. Nothing new here. So it comes down to how the blower makes power and in what rpms the power is made.

For example, when i look at the dyno sheet posted, I see impressive numbers indeed....but I only see half of the dyno run. There is no reporting of the power from 2200 up to 3800 range....and that is where most street driving takes place. Unless you plan on driving around at WOT in the upper rpm ranges all the time, the high end power band deosn't do as much good on the street. The roots blowers on the other hand are making 8 PSI at the crack of the throttle and putting down 400 ft lb of torque at 2800 rpm. That's the kind of power that gives you the "big block" feeling. You don't have to wind up the motor, nor go WOT to feel the shove in the back. I simple half pedal at 2500 rpm has you moving along nicely.

That said....the addition of a high stall and big gears that keeps the engine in the "sweet spot" (the higher rpm ranges) allows the centrifugally blown car to really shine. Set up properly, the centrifugally blown cars can, and do, make more power up top...so, with the proper set up you can have the best of both worlds (good launch and great top end).

The issue, then, comes down to choice. Does the owner want big gears and high stall to compensate for the comparibly soft bottom end of a centrifugally blown motor to gain the upshot of more power in the top end? Some do....some don't. Those that don't are better served with a roots based kit. And those willing to go the gear and stall route can have great success with the centrifugal kit. Again, its all about personal choice and the objectives for the car.

So, in the end, niether kit is the better choice. One is not superior or inferior to the other in an outright way. Yes, you can make a superior or inferior choice of blower....but that really depends on your entire set up and objectives with the car.

How's that? Can we all agree on that?

 

[MarauderTJA]

Tom, your car is pushing 500 HP to the wheels which is 100 HP above mine as well as most of the supercharged Marauders out there. So your car is NOT the typical case. If you cannot beat my car in a race with having 100 HP more, and 3 lbs of boost more than my car does, then that would be pretty pathetic. The match you're proposing would mean absolutely nothing.

Most of the supercharger packages for the Marauder that are available offer 8-10 PSI of boost pressure, unless the buyer alters them like you have. My car has the same 9.5 PSI of boost pressure that the original Trilogy kit comes with, and my car is my daily driver that get's driven 12 months out of the year even in the snow, and sees nothing but 93 octane pump gasoline. My car also has the original stock bottom end, and the stock internals haven't been replaced with forged internals either. And it runs fine, and has done so for 20,000 supercharged miles now (31,000 total miles).

With 500 RWHP and and atleast 12 LBS of boost along with a higher than stock stall speed, I certainly hope that your car can get off the line well and perform some good burnouts! If my Trilogy/roots supercharger was pullied to be pumping out 12 PSI of boost like your car is, then we would be able to see what's what. But what you're talking about is NOT an apples to apples comparisant at all.

Furthermore, I thankyou for your post, but you don't need to convince me that your car is fast. But that doesn't mean that a roots supercharger that's also pushing 12+ LBS of boost like your centrifugal is, wouldn't have been a better choice for your car. And I disagree with you about the 4 valve cylinder heads making any difference down low in the RPM scale. If that were true, then that would mean that a bone stock Marauder would out accelerate a 16 valve engine Crown Vic during the first 30 or 60 feet of a race. And from what I hear, they don't. Usually the more a cylinder head design provides better breathing up high in the RPM scale, the less effective they are at making low-end power, which is the same with camshaft designs.

So apparently what you guys are saying is that this article taken from Muscle Mustang & fast Fords magazine is ALL wrong. Right? Sorry, but I dont think so. If you enjoy your saupercharged Marauders, then that's all that matters, right? Anything over and above that means that you're just trying to be advertisements for the supercharger company of your choice, which is the same thing that your demented buddy TMAC has accused me of doing in the past.

Let's come back down to earth here. Shall we? The main point of this thread was basically a complaint about people not congratulating someone for their choice of supercharger. And I've already addressed that issue in my first post. If what I said doesn't sit right with you, then there's nothing to be done about that. If you had a Marauder equipped with the standard and basic centrifugal supercharger kit along with the pulley that it originally comes with pushing 8 or 9 PSI of boost, along with the stock torque converter with 2,400 RPM stall speed and the 3.55 gears like many Trilogy customers have, and you wanted to come here and give me a ride in your car, then I'd be glad to take you up on that.

But no matter how impressed I might be from a ride in your 500 HP monster, that still wouldn't convince me that a roots supercharger isn't the better choice for a heavy vehicle like the Marauder. So there it sits, and nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise. But it really isn't all that important that you convince me otherwise as far as I'm concerned. And it doesn't mean that we cannot be friends either. Which is exactly the point of my first post here.

But two jokers in this thread have desperately tried to turn my original point into something else. It seems that the stakes are pretty high for those two people. I don't know why that is, but it really doesn't matter to me either. I'm just a car buff, and a very satisfied Trilogy customer out of many. Nothing more.

Billy, I was never trying or stated to you that I wanted to convince you my car is fast. I know it is fast. And it should be with the mods I have done to the car. Even in a base 9.5 lb Procharger kit there is a lot more bottom end than you realize, whether I convince you or not is fine with me. People just need to ride in both cars and make their own decision. And you are right, you love your roots choice, I love my centrifugal choice and that is all that counts.

 

[maraudernkc]

Mike, I understand what you are saying. A converter and gears helps a centrifical get into the sweet spot much quicker. This is very true.

What I was stating to Billy is that he could have never run those times without the addition of his other mods.

Those mods I mentioned will enhance any supercharged car but they will enhance the centrifical even more.

I am not debating that a roots blower does not have more down low.

We don't show the low end because we don't lock the converter on the Dyno. It's hard on the converter and we know our TQ numbers are lower than a Roots down low.

I hope you can ride in one of our cars in Detroit.

We have all talked about the advatages of both types of blowers.

Beleive it or not I do own a roots blower. It's on my 2004 Grand Prix GTP

No darn Inercooler. What was GM or Eaton thinking?

Greg,

You know you have my support. I'll voice it again here....when set up the right way, the FIT kit makes an excellent SC kit for the Marauder.

I think what Billy is pointing out (as demostrated by the article he posted), is that with all other things being equal, the roots blower provides more power down low for a heavy car. That's hotrod 101 and is pretty much a basic fact. Nothing new here. So it comes down to how the blower makes power and in what rpms the power is made.

For example, when i look at the dyno sheet posted, I see impressive numbers indeed....but I only see half of the dyno run. There is no reporting of the power from 2200 up to 3800 range....and that is where most street driving takes place. Unless you plan on driving around at WOT in the upper rpm ranges all the time, the high end power band deosn't do as much good on the street. The roots blowers on the other hand are making 8 PSI at the crack of the throttle and putting down 400 ft lb of torque at 2800 rpm. That's the kind of power that gives you the "big block" feeling. You don't have to wind up the motor, nor go WOT to feel the shove in the back. I simple half pedal at 2500 rpm has you moving along nicely.

That said....the addition of a high stall and big gears that keeps the engine in the "sweet spot" (the higher rpm ranges) allows the centrifugally blown car to really shine. Set up properly, the centrifugally blown cars can, and do, make more power up top...so, with the proper set up you can have the best of both worlds (good launch and great top end).

The issue, then, comes down to choice. Does the owner want big gears and high stall to compensate for the comparibly soft bottom end of a centrifugally blown motor to gain the upshot of more power in the top end? Some do....some don't. Those that don't are better served with a roots based kit. And those willing to go the gear and stall route can have great success with the centrifugal kit. Again, its all about personal choice and the objectives for the car.

So, in the end, niether kit is the better choice. One is not superior or inferior to the other in an outright way. Yes, you can make a superior or inferior choice of blower....but that really depends on your entire set up and objectives with the car.

How's that? Can we all agree on that?

 

[MarauderTJA]

Greg,

You know you have my support. I'll voice it again here....when set up the right way, the FIT kit makes an excellent SC kit for the Marauder.

I think what Billy is pointing out (as demostrated by the article he posted), is that with all other things being equal, the roots blower provides more power down low for a heavy car. That's hotrod 101 and is pretty much a basic fact. Nothing new here. So it comes down to how the blower makes power and in what rpms the power is made.

For example, when i look at the dyno sheet posted, I see impressive numbers indeed....but I only see half of the dyno run. There is no reporting of the power from 2200 up to 3800 range....and that is where most street driving takes place. Unless you plan on driving around at WOT in the upper rpm ranges all the time, the high end power band deosn't do as much good on the street. The roots blowers on the other hand are making 8 PSI at the crack of the throttle and putting down 400 ft lb of torque at 2800 rpm. That's the kind of power that gives you the "big block" feeling. You don't have to wind up the motor, nor go WOT to feel the shove in the back. I simple half pedal at 2500 rpm has you moving along nicely.

That said....the addition of a high stall and big gears that keeps the engine in the "sweet spot" (the higher rpm ranges) allows the centrifugally blown car to really shine. Set up properly, the centrifugally blown cars can, and do, make more power up top...so, with the proper set up you can have the best of both worlds (good launch and great top end).

The issue, then, comes down to choice. Does the owner want big gears and high stall to compensate for the comparibly soft bottom end of a centrifugally blown motor to gain the upshot of more power in the top end? Some do....some don't. Those that don't are better served with a roots based kit. And those willing to go the gear and stall route can have great success with the centrifugal kit. Again, its all about personal choice and the objectives for the car.

So, in the end, niether kit is the better choice. One is not superior or inferior to the other in an outright way. Yes, you can make a superior or inferior choice of blower....but that really depends on your entire set up and objectives with the car.

How's that? Can we all agree on that?

Mike, I basically agree with you on your points. Well put. The first mod I did one week after I bought the car was install 4.10 gears. After supercharging the car, I really did not find any real problems with low end power for daily driving at all. Granted, it might not have been roots bottom power, but 325 ft lbs at 2800 rpm and 350 ft lbs at 3200 rpm isn't shabby and certainly far from WOT. But I do have 12 lbs of boost, which is spooling up faster. I did install a converter later, but mostly due to the extensive mods/power I wanted for my car. But that's me. I also agree with you totally on your point on choice of blower, with neither of them being inferior.

 

[MikesMerc]

I hope you can ride in one of our cars in Detroit.

Me too! And, to be honest, I know that I will be impressed. I had a centrifugal blower on my modified 91 mustang 5.0 and the boost coming on exponentially as rpms grew was nothing short of an exhilarating experience epper:

 

[tmac1337]

Me too! And, to be honest, I know that I will be impressed. I had a centrifugal blower on my modified 91 mustang 5.0 and the boost coming on exponentially as rpms grew was nothing short of an exhilarating experience epper:

Mike, JD (Highwaycruiser) is going to the event, or so I think. I hope you will take a spin in his car. He has the same 370 pully I do, with gears and a 3000 PI stall converter. Pay some attention to the driveability of the car, and hopefully get into at least 5-7 PSI and see what the car does in boost.

Noone here is trying to change your mind, brainwash you, or turn you into some kind of true believer. Just come back and give us an objective opinion on what your experience was.

That being said, have a great time at the event!

P.S., let me know what you think of the tune, I have invested a lot of time with it :rockon: eerrrr or have at least provided helpful suggestions to Main Man Beer!

 

[tmac1337]

Now, on a funny note, check out this thread, it get's better and better and better......

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199862&page=1&pp=25