Help with gears???

[jumpincactus]

When it comes to gears I am rather challenged.

What is the result of swapping the Gt500 stock gears with the 3.73's

Give me a breakdown on how this equates with low end and high end performance. I believe the KR will come with 3.73's Wy are they changing gear ratios???

Reason I ask is........ based on the feedback on what I can look forward to in performance I am considering doing the swap.

 

[chuckstang]

The higher the numerical gear ratio, the "peppier" the car will feel. But keep in mind, each gear will tach out sooner and for some that means alot more shifting around town and worse gas mileage if you like to get on the loud pedal alot. But you can actually save gas as well if you shift into overdrive crusing around town where before with the stock gears you could not because the car would bog down and want to stall.
A heavier car in generally will benefit alot from a higher numerical gear ratio as it acts as a torque multiplier and helps alot from a dead stop and will get you into your power band quicker in all gears.
One big disadvantage will be the lack of traction in 1st gear and most likely 2nd gear if you retain the stock tires.
A 4:10 ratio out back would be best for the more hardcore racer while the 3:73 that you mentioned will give you the best of both worlds for the weekend warrior and around the town cruiser.
Good luck and remember, do not fear the gear! Once you drive in a properly geard 4v mustang, you will never want anything less than 373 IMO

 

[Black2003Cobra]

Gears change the amount of torque at the rear wheels, (which is NOT the same thing as torque reported on a dyno, BTW. That is not really rear-wheel torque, even though that’s what it is commonly referred to.) If you increase the gear ratio, torque at the rear wheels will go up in direct proportion to the increase of the numerical ratio (in any given transmission gear, and rpm). A higher rear-wheel torque will mean the vehicle will accelerate faster. This is the same reason the car accelerates faster in 1st gear compared to 2nd gear, and so on. It’s the same idea.

Of course if you put in a higher gear ratio, that means you have to shift out of each gear that much sooner, miles-per-hour wise. So for the drag strip, the basic idea is to select a gear so that you go through the traps right around red line in fourth. This will mean you’re maximizing “average” power over the run, and hence, should yield the best results. So the right gear will depend on tire height, red line, torque/power curve, and vehicle weight, etc. There are on-line calculators that can help you determine this.

A possible tradeoff is a loss of traction, however. The higher rear-wheel torque translates to a higher drive force at the tire’s contact patch. (If it gets too high, it can overcome the static friction force and the tire spins.) So if you put in so much gear that you can’t maintain traction, then the advantage will be lost. Or you could also put in too much gear so that you end up having to shift into 5th, and that will likely hurt your results as well.

Then there’s also the other things like fuel economy, cruising rpm at a given speed, etc.

 

[Black2003Cobra]

LOL...chuckstang...you beat me to it!

 

[jumpincactus]

Thanx for your input. So let me see if I got this. My GT500 comes with 3.31's in which 1st is worthless tachs out way too quick and 2nd is not much better.

So with 3.73 and higher ratio numbers then I am only going to increase the taching out quicker............correct?

Whhops I posted B4 I saw Black 2003Cobras reply.

I need to say by the way I also had a black 03 termie. Man do I miss that car. I traded for the GT500.

I shared my honest opinion over at Stangsunleashed and got my ass handed to me. I was sharing my initial disapointment with the ride quality and that I felt the 500 was sluggish compared to my termie and all hell broke loose.

Granted I could have used better presentation and later apologized. But after three months now I still feel that the solid axle setup was a bad move for Ford. My 03 rode like is was on rails and cornered way better and accelerated much better. For a while I had even begun to believe from them that I was outta my mind.

I have to qualify this however it is a great car. Just doesnt live up to my expectations after all the pre-release hype in comparision to the termie.

After much playing around on many types of surfaces/roads I am convinced that overall my 03 was a better overall car. Hell with the extra $ I spent with MSRP and ADM I would not have one sick 03.

Now in case there are any GT500 ownwers from Stangs lurking keep in mind I have aready had my A** kicked in your corral and no amount of flaming is going to allievate the occasional buyers remorse I still feel.

I am working at choosing the right suspension mods to help with the handling deficiencies, just not sure what will best suit this car. I will lay in wait and lay in wait to see what others are doing with thiers and see where the best mods are.

 

[Purvis]

Thanx for your input. So let me see if I got this. My GT500 comes with 3.31's in which 1st is worthless tachs out way too quick and 2nd is not much better.

So with 3.73 and higher ratio numbers then I am only going to increase the taching out quicker............correct?

Whhops I posted B4 I saw Black 2003Cobras reply.

I need to say by the way I also had a black 03 termie. Man do I miss that car. I traded for the GT500.

I shared my honest opinion over at Stangsunleashed and got my ass handed to me. I was sharing my initial disapointment with the ride quality and that I felt the 500 was sluggish compared to my termie and all hell broke loose.

Granted I could have used better presentation and later apologized. But after three months now I still feel that the solid axle setup was a bad move for Ford. My 03 rode like is was on rails and cornered way better and accelerated much better. For a while I had even begun to believe from them that I was outta my mind.

I have to qualify this however it is a great car. Just doesnt live up to my expectations after all the pre-release hype in comparision to the termie.

After much playing around on many types of surfaces/roads I am convinced that overall my 03 was a better overall car. Hell with the extra $ I spent with MSRP and ADM I would not have one sick 03.

Now in case there are any GT500 ownwers from Stangs lurking keep in mind I have aready had my A** kicked in your corral and no amount of flaming is going to allievate the occasional buyers remorse I still feel.

I am working at choosing the right suspension mods to help with the handling deficiencies, just not sure what will best suit this car. I will lay in wait and lay in wait to see what others are doing with thiers and see where the best mods are.

You better run for the hills and get outta town with talk like that.
A Mouth like that, around these here parts, will get you flammed, nice and toasty like.:burn:

I for one, appreciate the un-biased view.:read:

BTW, if you want a real improvement with the usability of 1st and second gears.. Run a set of Nitto DR's out back. Combined with the 3.73,s you would have a real street terror in the first three gears.
I run the Nittos on my ZO6 and they surprise the crap out of alot of cars on the street.

 

[ac427cobra]

jumpincactus:

You certainly are in the minority with your opinion about this car. In fact, you're actually the first person I've heard say they thought the '03 was the better riding/handling car of the two?!? :read:

Just out of curiosity, have you ever pushed the handling capabilities of BOTH cars on a race track!? :idea:

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[jumpincactus]

First off I am and always have been a lifelong Ford man. when it comes to the cobras I am convinced they are the best mustangs ever built.

As for the flaming I can take it. My comments are not meant to inflame but I would think in america that I am still allowed to voice my honest opinions.

that said I used to take my 03 to the track every season and ran the beast for what it was made for. pushing the envelope. Now for the 500 have not had it long enough to get it to the track as here in Seattle it is still moist and the track isnt open yet.


My observations have been on highway driving and city streets. The A** end of my 500 over even the slightest bumps jumps like a jack rabbit. At speed I just dont get the same feeling on confidence or being firmly planted as I did in the termie. Keep in mind I am running the same streets and terrain I ran the 03 on for three years.

Im not saying it is a loss as far as performance. There will over time be suspension upgrades that will alleviate some of my concerns I am sure. The power band is different for sure, the 500 has a much flatter more linear band.

I would really like to get some feedback on folks that owned a 03/04 termie and that now own the 500 and see how many agree with my assessment. Of all the flaming I have received I wonder how many of them had owned a termie. Not one person that tore me up stated that they owned a termie and felt I was wrong.

427 Cobra you did say that I thought the termie was a better riding car. I didnt mean that in as much as the handling. The ride in the 500 is a softer ride for sure. The termies have a much stiffer suspension and some ride quality was compromised. But I did not mind more chassis stiffness especially when it came to feeling more firmly planted in the corners.

I know that with the right mods the 500 will and does eclipse the termies raw power but it will be sometime and a lot of suspension mods before I will agree that it is a better car.

I have seen a lot of feedback and testing and there are many sites that concur with the handling deficencies in the live axle. See link below http://www.stangnet.com/Videos/Exhibition/Top-Gear-on-Shelby-GT500%3A-Old-vs-New/details/ Click on video Top Gear on Shelby GT 500 old versus new

I have a lot of respect for the SVT and Shelby history and engineering achievments and I would not truly say I dont like the car overall but I sure hope that some truly great mods will be forthcoming that will tame the jack rabbit feeling I get with the liveaxle.

Here is a great video of the testing of the new GT500 and some honest input about giving a car 200 more HP with a days of old solid axle. Videos about 7 minutes enjoy. For any of you Roush haters dont watch to the end as the road tests show the Roush mustang handles better and uns better track times with the same professional driver in both of the test cars.

 

[ac427cobra]

First off I am and always have been a lifelong Ford man. when it comes to the cobras I am convinced they are the best mustangs ever built.

As have I and do as well. :thumbsup:

.
As for the flaming I can take it. My comments are not meant to inflame but I would think in america that I am still allowed to voice my honest opinions.

But of course! :-D

My observations have been on highway driving and city streets. The A** end of my 500 over even the slightest bumps jumps like a jack rabbit.

I hear you on that and don't like it much myself!

At speed I just dont get the same feeling on confidence or being firmly planted as I did in the termie. Keep in mind I am running the same streets and terrain I ran the 03 on for three years.

I get just the opposite feeling as you comparing my (unmodified) SN-95 chassis 2000 Cobra R to the GT500.

I would really like to get some feedback on folks that owned a 03/04 termie and that now own the 500 and see how many agree with my assessment.

Well, technically my "R" isn't a Termi. But for all intent and purposes, it's a Termi that's hufferless.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON between the two cars as delivered from the factory. The SN-95 chassis was FAR inferior to the S-197 chassis. The 20+ year old suspension (although upgraded somewhat over the years) was archaic compared the the S-197. The factory delivered IRS leaves A LOT to be desired. Emphasis on the "A LOT".

As far as driving the two cars and seat of the pants differences, it could not be further from two polar opposites IMHO.

Give me a box stock Termi and GT500 on a race track and my money's on the GT500. Unless it's some sort of shitty short track that resembles an autocross course. Then it might be a toss up?

That's my take on it anyway.

YMMV

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

i still think that a stick axle can perform just as well(if not better) than an IRS on SMOOTH terrain. the stick axle, the camber angle hardly changes(tire flex maybe? thats about it) where as an IRS is constantly changing camber just like the IFS. the bumps is where the IRS has the advantage since one wheel hardly affects the other compared to the stick axle. although, to be honest, this is an outsiders opinion. "in theory" a stick should perform as good as/better than an IRS on SMOOTH terrain, but in reality i could be wrong. bruce, any insight? been pondering this one forever.

 

[snake134]

gt500 + 4.10's = spinnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[chuckstang]

LOL...chuckstang...you beat me to it!

hahaah I just put it in lamens(spelling?) terms
There are limited things I can explain in this world so I had to jump on this one hahah

 

[chuckstang]

I really have high hopes for this GT500 as I paid a ton for it and am still waiting for it.
I remember when I went from a solid axle GT Mustang to the IRS Cobra, I felt like I was driving an entirely different car! I loved it! Well, I hated the hop!!!!!!! With that said, I am very sad to hear that a stock GT500 will hop just as bad but a few mods can fix it
Your assessment of the 2 cars does worry me though

 

[jumpincactus]

Well fellas so far so good on reaction to my post's I appreciate your honest input and not flaming me out of here. Chuck I hope that I am not dashing your hopes. Dont get me wrong it is a fine car. I am hoping that I was so attached at the hip with my 03 that the GT500 will grow on me.

I rahter do like the retro look of the newer GT's and such. I guess alot of what I may be feeling too is again with all the hype and the amount of money I paid it is sad that I'm going to have to drop another 2-3 grand to get it where I want it to be.

Chuck I remeber the hop in my 03 although a few bushings and such and that was all that was eliminated. Part that gets me was Ford went to live axle for two reasons. One SVT said it would cure the wheel hop everyone complained about with the 03/04 termies. The 2nd reason as the video stated was the cost savings over the IRS. But as you well know there was no cost savings as far as I'm concerned. MSRP and ADM it cost a small fortune to own and the car still hops like a bunny....

I will undoubtably will warm up to my new ride as the mods get done and I get a better feeling of confidence at speed and in the twisties.

thanks again fellas for letting me air my opinions and not taking the postition that I am trying to be argumentative

 

[jumpincactus]

Chuck, After you get your suspension mods there is an option if you want to get more HP. Roush has partenered with Ford Racing and you can get a supercharger from Roush that will give you over 600 HP and the kicker is it keeps your warrantyfor 36/36.

It is rather pricy....... a KB blower or Whipple is a few dinero more but no warranty. However EVO also has a JLT CAI, pulley and a tune to boot that will get you close to 600. And for a heck of a lot cheaper. But again no warranty.

 

[ON D BIT]

I have seen a lot of feedback and testing and there are many sites that concur with the handling deficencies in the live axle. See link below http://www.stangnet.com/Videos/Exhibition/Top-Gear-on-Shelby-GT500%3A-Old-vs-New/details/ Click on video Top Gear on Shelby GT 500 old versus new

they, top gear, said the same thing about the c6's tranverse leaf springs as well! so dont take thier review too serious.

as for the live axle they can turn and turn very efficiently as seen in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzpDOFOvdek
The Ferrari Club Virginia City Hill Climb is an event the Griggs Racing staff enjoys attending each year. The 5.2 mile course, on route 342, has some breath taking views and death defying cliffs. Ride along with John Griggs in his 660whp 98 GR40 Cobra Convertible (daily driver/open track car with SLA upgrade) as he demonstrates the cars sure-footedness up the hill. Every part including the convertible roll bar is available for purchase from Griggs Racing Products or the Griggs Racing Dealer nearest you. BTW: No Ferrari has been able to beat John’s time. I hope they let us back next year.epper: :beer:

 

[Purvis]

Chuck I remeber the hop in my 03 although a few bushings and such and that was all that was eliminated. Part that gets me was Ford went to live axle for two reasons. One SVT said it would cure the wheel hop everyone complained about with the 03/04 termies. The 2nd reason as the video stated was the cost savings over the IRS. But as you well know there was no cost savings as far as I'm concerned. MSRP and ADM it cost a small fortune to own and the car still hops like a bunny....

I find it unnerving that this car wheel hops. At $45,000 this car should not wheel hop from the factory. This car was just about designed for drag racing in mind. Ive read a few "cures" on here about how to get rid if it (Thankyou SVT forums) which I will do when I get mine, but its just a PITA it didnt come from the factory right in the first place. Especially considering it has a solid rear. :rollseyes

And to the rest of you who claim a solid rear handles as well as a IRS.
YES, a solid rear can easily be made to handle like an IRS, around a SMOOOOOTH race track. But on the street, where there are bumps in the road, an IRS will shine, while a solid rear will be playing "skip to the next lane". So there is truth to what Cactus says.

Im not trying to be negative, just realistic. I was one of the advocates for a solid rear, when this car was in development. (Back when the target price was less than $39,999.) I was worried about weight and cost and wanted the solid rear. Turns out I was right, weight being the most important factor. An IRS would have put this baby dangerously close to 4 thousand pounds. Im glad they went with the solid rear, but they should have made sure this baby was not wheel hopping, before suspension R&D was wrapped up.:dw:

 

[ac427cobra]

Im glad they went with the solid rear, but they should have made sure this baby was not wheel hopping, before suspension R&D was wrapped up.:dw:

Then too many people would be bitching about a shitty ride! :idea:

 

[chuckstang]

Perhaps with stiffer springs and dampers the car will not hop???
Im sure the rear control arms are not the best but maybe they are not the whole problem. I say this because the Shelby GT is said to not hop and I highly doubt they put any better control arms in that thing, right???
I for one, paying $53k for my car to be, can not afford much mods right away which sucks but I feel that even in stock form the car will be leaps and bounds better than my modded 99. Please say it will be!!!!!!!!!

 

[ON D BIT]

And to the rest of you who claim a solid rear handles as well as a IRS. YES, a solid rear can easily be made to handle like an IRS, around a SMOOOOOTH race track. But on the street, where there are bumps in the road, an IRS will shine, while a solid rear will be playing "skip to the next lane". So there is truth to what Cactus says.

that looked like a race track to you???

it looked like a street going up and through small mountain range to me! i saw no skipping into the next lane even at 80mph +!