Headers necessary for the KB?

[sambandit]

Oh yeah, I heard it! To be honest, sounds just like kpinco's car. Remember, kpinco has the x/pipe as well. I thought all along that the x/pipe had alot to do with the sounds but that's obviously not true because Steve's car sounds almost identical. I did order the Steeda, should be in soon. Also sold my seats so I have some new ones on the way, including my rear seat delete. Can anybody advise fang where to get the Bassani cb?? Who has the best price on them??

 

[stangin]

I hear ya, can be confusing and I went through this very decision. I dont want to sacrifice any torque, that is where the fun is and I dont want to have to push the engine to high RPM's to get it, I want it low and on demand. I must be doing something right I have 570 ft lbs of torque to the rear wheels with the KB, stock cat back, o/r x pipe, no headers and a slipping S/C belt. Im shooting for 630 / 670, with the stock cat back, a new tune, non slipping S/C belt and 55lb injectors.

Anyways you can add the headers at anytime, you dont have to do it now.. you could do it later or not at all. Why dont you do the KB and get it tuned and then dyno, think about it and if you decide to do it then dyno after and let us know if there were any gains. I would like to see the numbers..

 

[Blades]

I went with headers before KB. I found that skimping is just bad for these cars. It had to be done sometime.. Pace yourself.. Haste makes waste.. Plus the mid length headers are amazing!

 

[Fang]

Thanks for the great input. You guys always help in the decision making.

 

[Jim Vaccaro]

I don't know why guys want to run 19lbs with KB blower to make a number (600)
Then Skimp on the Headers.
To complete the package with Long Tubes ,,You get less cylinder Pressure and make more power with a bit less boost.Not to mention broodening the power band..
Yes these cars make awesome power without useing even the aftermarket TB..
The Oval bore TB and Headers make it more efficient...

 

[racerat]

Originally posted by PhillyCobra
Losing boost with a header installation is actually not necessarily bad, and can be good. What counts with the supercharger is how much air can be pumped. If you relieve an obstruction (such as exhaust system) after the supercharger, you can get the same air flow at a lower pressure, and often more air flow.

I have a 3" MAC catback, catted X and stock headers. However, I'm seeing better numbers with less boost than most folks. 587/536 SAE with 15.6psi. My pulley combo is supposed to make 17-19psi but I think the 3" exhaust is what's causing my lower than expected boost levels. I'm not complaining...just want to know if my assumption is correct.

 

[JSHTROD]

Originally posted by racerat
I have a 3" MAC catback, catted X and stock headers. However, I'm seeing better numbers with less boost than most folks. 587/536 SAE with 15.6psi. My pulley combo is supposed to make 17-19psi but I think the 3" exhaust is what's causing my lower than expected boost levels. I'm not complaining...just want to know if my assumption is correct.

Boost is simply a measure of pressure in the intake manifold. If you free up the exhaust, you will loose some boost (but usually gain power).

You've effectively made your motor more effecient.

After I installed the Bassani Headers, I now reach a peak boost of ~7.5lbs. Yet, make more power than before.

;-)

 

[mustarrosa]

I have the full Bassani setup...headers-Xpipe-catback exhaust and got about 3hp gain at the wheels. Not worth the money. Don't get headers and save your money for other stuff.. Not worth the money. I would not do it again. Do you want to buy mine? I'll give you a good deal. Only 4 months old.

 

[Fang]

Originally posted by racerat
I have a 3" MAC catback, catted X and stock headers. However, I'm seeing better numbers with less boost than most folks. 587/536 SAE with 15.6psi. My pulley combo is supposed to make 17-19psi but I think the 3" exhaust is what's causing my lower than expected boost levels. I'm not complaining...just want to know if my assumption is correct.

This is exactly what I am looking for. Thanks for the reply. I would be extremely happy with those numbers Racerat. Why did you never go with aftermarket headers anyway? What is the Hermans deal and what does it do? Does it do what it is supposed to? Thanks

 

[racerat]

Originally posted by mustarrosa
Do you want to buy mine? I'll give you a good deal. Only 4 months old.

If you are serious, pm me with price.

Originally posted by Fang
This is exactly what I am looking for. Thanks for the reply. I would be extremely happy with those numbers Racerat. Why did you never go with aftermarket headers anyway? What is the Hermans deal and what does it do? Does it do what it is supposed to? Thanks

I am extremely happy with my car right now. Headers are in the future, along with cams, fuel rails and upgraded tanks as they become available.
Hermanns oil spray fix keeps my engine spotless and the oil in the blower where it belongs.

 

[bassin247]

Originally posted by JSHTROD
Boost is simply a measure of pressure in the intake manifold. If you free up the exhaust, you will loose some boost (but usually gain power).

You've effectively made your motor more effecient.

After I installed the Bassani Headers, I now reach a peak boost of ~7.5lbs. Yet, make more power than before.

;-)

Same here. I see around 7.5-7.7 psi. Even with the loss of boost, I gain HP and TQ after 5000 rpm.

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by Jim Vaccaro
I don't know why guys want to run 19lbs with KB blower to make a number (600)
Then Skimp on the Headers.
To complete the package with Long Tubes ,,You get less cylinder Pressure and make more power with a bit less boost.Not to mention broodening the power band..
Yes these cars make awesome power without useing even the aftermarket TB..
The Oval bore TB and Headers make it more efficient...

It is not a matter of skimping, I just dont have substantial proof that it increases power.. and many reports of loosing torque which is supposed to come back at high RPM, but I do not want to push my Cobra that high in RPM, it is not necessary.. so I would not get the torque back. Why would I install headers to loose torque? These cars need back pressure.. I agree that the engine bay is cooler. Dont get me wrong, I love headers and have had them on every v8 car I have had, until the Cobra and it kinda bugs me to not have headers on it. I heard on this board that they loose torque so I am seeing what I can do without the headers, then after my KB is dialed in all the way I will probably put headers, but I will do a before and after dyno (with just the header change only) like I have for all my mods and see how much of a gain or loss occurs. If I can make 520rwhp and 570rwtq (soon to be 630 / 670 new inj/tune) without headers, hell I am still running the stock cat back with an O/R X.. then I question weather headers are needed at all, sounds to me that the flow is ok or the numbers would not be so high.

 

[Fang]

Originally posted by stangin
It is not a matter of skimping, I just dont have substantial proof that it increases power.. and many reports of loosing torque which is supposed to come back at high RPM, but I do not want to push my Cobra that high in RPM, it is not necessary.. so I would not get the torque back. Why would I install headers to loose torque? These cars need back pressure.. I agree that the engine bay is cooler. Dont get me wrong, I love headers and have had them on every v8 car I have had, until the Cobra and it kinda bugs me to not have headers on it. I heard on this board that they loose torque so I am seeing what I can do without the headers, then after my KB is dialed in all the way I will probably put headers, but I will do a before and after dyno (with just the header change only) like I have for all my mods and see how much of a gain or loss occurs. If I can make 520rwhp and 570rwtq (soon to be 630 / 670 new inj/tune) without headers, hell I am still running the stock cat back with an O/R X.. then I question weather headers are needed at all, sounds to me that the flow is ok or the numbers would not be so high.

This is exactly why I started this post. I wonder if headers are needed at all. I would be interested to see your dynos after the inj/tune. Thanks for the great comments.

 

[stangin]

Originally posted by Fang
This is exactly why I started this post. I wonder if headers are needed at all. I would be interested to see your dynos after the inj/tune. Thanks for the great comments.

I hear what you are saying, most of the people on this board are much smarter than I, but I have been into performance for a long time and have learned a few things along the way.. one was I had a 70 Camaro RS SS, I had 1 5/8" headers, ran great, then I added 1 3/4" headers and it lost all kinds of torque.. I later had a 90 GT that I added a vortec and thought for sure it would benifit from the 1 3/4".. wrong lost torque with it as well, so I am a little leary when I saw many a post about loosing torque with headers. I really feel these cars need at least some back pressure. I will post my results after the dyno day at the end of the month.. then decide if I will go headers or not.

 

[sambandit]

Check the sig, I haven't seemed to have lost tq.

 

[Imperial Pose]

I'm not looking for the fastest ride just enough to make you clean your shorts after hammering it.

I can't help you with any hard-numbers. I've only the MAC 3" catback, with the KB setup @ 15 psi. Car sounds great, and SOTP is outstanding.

My understanding (no data, just hearsay), is that the catback is the least efficient stock exhaust component, thus has most aftermarket gain-potential.

 

[mike5876]

i have long tubes with the kb.....i dont think the headers cause boost loss...with the 17b lb pulley ...car made 17.9 lbs of boost i dont know if they are worth any power or not cause i dynoed after i installed them and didnt know how just the kb did without the headers

 

[JSHTROD]

Originally posted by stangin
It is not a matter of skimping, I just dont have substantial proof that it increases power.. and many reports of loosing torque which is supposed to come back at high RPM, but I do not want to push my Cobra that high in RPM, it is not necessary.. so I would not get the torque back. Why would I install headers to loose torque? These cars need back pressure.. I agree that the engine bay is cooler. Dont get me wrong, I love headers and have had them on every v8 car I have had, until the Cobra and it kinda bugs me to not have headers on it. I heard on this board that they loose torque so I am seeing what I can do without the headers, then after my KB is dialed in all the way I will probably put headers, but I will do a before and after dyno (with just the header change only) like I have for all my mods and see how much of a gain or loss occurs. If I can make 520rwhp and 570rwtq (soon to be 630 / 670 new inj/tune) without headers, hell I am still running the stock cat back with an O/R X.. then I question weather headers are needed at all, sounds to me that the flow is ok or the numbers would not be so high.

People loose torque when they go to a too large header, or too open exhaust system.

It seems complete 3" systems loose torque. So do catless systems.

The vast majority of headers are great. Just don't do 1 7/8's tubes.

:coolman:

 

[03MUSTANGSVT]

Hey Mustarrosa - how much do you want for the Bassani headers?

 

[wicked03snake]

like philly said. the engine is an air pump and the more it flows the more power. you can lose torque at the low end but make more on the top end along with more power if all that air goes in and doesnt come out you will make good boost and lots of low end torque, but as soon as you free it up you lose boost and torque but gain massive power up top. although i dont know if i want to do it yet because if you can get that low end torque to hook, that is what gets the car moving for good 60' times, however if you launch at higher rpms you should still be able get roughly the same torque. the main place you will notice the loss of tq is on the street so i guess it depends how often you street drive and how important the 1/4 times are.