GT350 vs. Z/28

[Vonbrandwolf]

I stand by my predictions.

1: the 50th anniversary halo car MUST be something new and range topping. The Shelby's 662 hp is a helluva number to beat but my bet is on a turbocharged version of the coyote that puts out a nice round number for publicity. We've all heard the rumors about the flat crank v8 and what better application could there be than a turbo v8 with twin scroll turbochargers to take advantage of the 180° firing order? I also believe that ford isn't using the z28 as a benchmark but aiming much higher a la viper and corvette zr1, therefore a massive hp figure like 700 makes sense.
2: those big disks over the wheels aren't hiding calipers or new fancy blingin rims - those are hiding the brakes. We've already seen monster brembo calipers on the mustang so if they're going to these lengths to hide what this car is packing in the brake department you know it's going to be something important. When the '13 gt500 came out all the magazines complained about the fading brakes, so this is the answer.

 

[darreng505]

I stand by my predictions.
I also believe that ford isn't using the z28 as a benchmark but aiming much higher a la viper and corvette zr1, therefore a massive hp figure like 700 makes sense.

The problem there is the Mustang just doesn't have the chassis to compete with those cars. It's not just a HP thing. It would have to be something like the Ford GT incarnate.

Regarding the spy shots of the new SVT vehicle, its interesting to note that the tire setup looks square (to me).

 

[Ninjak]

The problem there is the Mustang just doesn't have the chassis to compete with those cars. It's not just a HP thing. It would have to be something like the Ford GT incarnate.

Regarding the spy shots of the new SVT vehicle, its interesting to note that the tire setup looks square (to me).

Perhaps. But think on this. Mustang is still a MUSCLE car. For it only to be a step or so behind a viper or the Z06~7 is a very large step in the right direction.

Mustangs did well in racing for a few years now on a solid axle. Just think of what the new platform could do.

 

[darreng505]

Perhaps. But think on this. Mustang is still a MUSCLE car. For it only to be a step or so behind a viper or the Z06~7 is a very large step in the right direction.

Mustangs did well in racing for a few years now on a solid axle. Just think of what the new platform could do.

Agree. I do have high hopes though.

 

[LostPony]

Nobody knows how capable the new chassis will be. It could surprise all of us!

 

[darreng505]

Nobody knows how capable the new chassis will be. It could surprise all of us!

True but its only evolutionary not revolutionary....

 

[Vonbrandwolf]

The problem there is the Mustang just doesn't have the chassis to compete with those cars. It's not just a HP thing. It would have to be something like the Ford GT incarnate.

Regarding the spy shots of the new SVT vehicle, its interesting to note that the tire setup looks square (to me).

No one has seen this chassis on a road course yet. The new suspension looks pretty solid and ford has been working on this setup since almost back in '05. The reason Ford didn't put the IRS in the car then was because the Mustang already led the segment because it had no competition. The bean counters said "hell, why should we spend all this money if we don't have to?" and the Mustang got a 300 hp v8 and a stick axle.

Fast forward to the age of a brand new body style, the 50th anniversary of the mustang, and huge competition from the Camaro and voila -700 hp twin turbo mustang :beer:

Remember this little market probe back in 2012?

 

[darreng505]

No one has seen this chassis on a road course yet.

No, but look at the goals for the vehicle. It is designed as a single chassis to support many variations of the car. Those design constraints will not be able to compete with purpose-built performance cars like the Z/28 and Z06 with chassis' designed for performance, not "bolted up" to perform.

I'm sure the performance models will be great, but with a least-common-denominator chassis I hope they can compete with the ground-up performance cars.

The new suspension looks pretty solid and ford has been working on this setup since almost back in '05.

Other than the IRS, which is new only to late model Mustangs, there's nothing I've seen or heard about the new chassis setup that "goes further". Rather, its catching up.

Remember this little market probe back in 2012?

Yeah, I remember that. It's a prototype bolt-on turbo kit for the CJ coyote/roadrunner. Definitely not "streetable".

 

[Tbonez3858]

Lofty expectations by this crowd...If Ford actual delivers on these expectations how many of us are going to be able to afford the car? I'm guessing not many of us can or at least will...Twin turbos with all the "fixings", huge brakes, better suspension better tires, interior upgrades and paint upgrades aren't going to add 15k to the car...They are going to add 20-25k

If this car gets into the 70k range the audience is going to swing the way of the Z06. The Z06 is sick and let's be real a car based on a chassis that supports a 20k car isn't in the same league as a custom designed technology show case that is the vette...


If this comes in at 50-55k, it's game on....

 

[chuckstang]

No, but look at the goals for the vehicle. It is designed as a single chassis to support many variations of the car. Those design constraints will not be able to compete with purpose-built performance cars like the Z/28 and Z06 with chassis' designed for performance, not "bolted up" to perform.

I'm sure the performance models will be great, but with a least-common-denominator chassis I hope they can compete with the ground-up performance cars.




Other than the IRS, which is new only to late model Mustangs, there's nothing I've seen or heard about the new chassis setup that "goes further". Rather, its catching up.



Yeah, I remember that. It's a prototype bolt-on turbo kit for the CJ coyote/roadrunner. Definitely not "streetable".

The z28 is not a ground up purpose built race car LOL

That shares a borrowed chassis just like the Mustang.

Lastly, the Mustang has been able to compete with the likes of Corvette, Audi R8, BMW M3 etc. with a solid rear axle, if you dont think the new mustang with an all new chassis and suspension, IRS, etc, will not be a huge increase in performance, you are going to be in for quite a shock.

"cathing up" :lol: Ford is leading the way in performance for the masses regardless of the fact that they have been able to do so with an old archaic suspension set up.

PS- Doesnt the vette still use leaf springs :lol1:

 

[mustangletback]

The z28 is not a ground up purpose built race car LOL

That shares a borrowed chassis just like the Mustang.

Lastly, the Mustang has been able to compete with the likes of Corvette, Audi R8, BMW M3 etc. with a solid rear axle, if you dont think the new mustang with an all new chassis and suspension, IRS, etc, will not be a huge increase in performance, you are going to be in for quite a shock.

"cathing up" :lol: Ford is leading the way in performance for the masses regardless of the fact that they have been able to do so with an old archaic suspension set up.

PS- Doesnt the vette still use leaf springs :lol1:

very well said.the mustang has looked past the camaro,just like the FORD GT looked past the vette,and went strait at ferrari.epper:

 

[ON D BIT]

2015 GT350? Performance Mustang Caught Testing With Less Camo | StangTV

An insider says this is the new svt mustang, leading me to believe its the the new GT500 not the 350. I will take his word over any media each every day!

Lastly, the Mustang has been able to compete with the likes of Corvette, Audi R8, BMW M3 etc. with a solid rear axle, if you dont think the new mustang with an all new chassis and suspension, IRS, etc, will not be a huge increase in performance, you are going to be in for quite a shock.

Way to blow a simple statement out of the water chuck! The vette is still killing the mustang 5.0 on a road course. 500lbs less weight, better weight distribution, better geometry. No way is it keeping up with the r8 either.:bash: The old m3 on the other had has the weight and power of the 5.0, well people can draw their own conclusions

 

[darreng505]

The z28 is not a ground up purpose built race car LOL

That shares a borrowed chassis just like the Mustang.

Lastly, the Mustang has been able to compete with the likes of Corvette, Audi R8, BMW M3 etc. with a solid rear axle, if you dont think the new mustang with an all new chassis and suspension, IRS, etc, will not be a huge increase in performance, you are going to be in for quite a shock.

"cathing up" :lol: Ford is leading the way in performance for the masses regardless of the fact that they have been able to do so with an old archaic suspension set up.

PS- Doesnt the vette still use leaf springs :lol1:

Well if you're going to quote me, do it correctly. I said purpose-built performance car. My understanding is the Z/28 uses a NEW chassis with this as a specific design goal. It's not especially clear that Ford did anything drastic to improve the new Mustang chassis save for the IRS which is "catching up". The Mustang is being marketed as "the car the world can like" I think it said on Ford's website - or similar.

Second, the Mustang does not compete with Corvette, R8 or BMW. At least not in any sanctioned race organization I watch. Mustang is in GTS and those other cars are in GT class and above (bmw might have some GTS cars and Camaro is in GTS too). Sorry. This was covered in another thread. :shrug:

"cathing up" Ford is leading the way in performance for the masses regardless of the fact that they have been able to do so with an old archaic suspension set up.

At the moment this just isn't true. Mustang did poorly in grand am last year (albeit there were rules and restrictions against it). It did poorly in PWC. And it underwhelmed at Daytona this year.
Granted it did have success there in the past.

Ford doesn't _really_ have any consumer-class performance cars in production right now (I don't count the GT as a performance car personally), or announced to be in production (all 2014 PERFORMANCE models have ceased production last I read). So right now, Ford has nothing. Just clarifying some facts here. There is, however, a lot of speculation and I hope the next SVT car will be great (also, not announced or scheduled or in production either). Seems it very could be, but it will still be a pony car, competing with pony cars. Not corvettes, not R8's not Ferraris or anything else of that class. It lacks the chassis (geometry, weight, balance, etc) for it.

 

[jes_csx]

Well if you're going to quote me, do it correctly. I said purpose-built performance car. My understanding is the Z/28 uses a NEW chassis with this as a specific design goal. It's not especially clear that Ford did anything drastic to improve the new Mustang chassis save for the IRS which is "catching up". The Mustang is being marketed as "the car the world can like" I think it said on Ford's website - or similar.

So GM bult and all new Z28 chassis for 500 cars? Huh?
Ford did more then just tack on IRS.

 

[RaceRedSnake]

I was under the impression Ford was still producing 2014 Mustangs except for the GT500.

 

[darreng505]

So GM bult and all new Z28 chassis for 500 cars? Huh?
Ford did more then just tack on IRS.

My understanding is its a new or newer chassis with performance design goals that will be used going forward. It's not the same SS chassis in the run-of-the-mill Camaros. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jes_csx]

My understanding is its a new or newer chassis with performance design goals that will be used going forward. It's not the same SS chassis in the run-of-the-mill Camaros. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It doesn't seem to make sense with the alpha platform camaro on its way. It depends on terminology… chassis as the static unibody "frame", or chassis as that "frame" with the z28 unique dynamic components attached to it? I would think they plan on carrying over some of the components to the alpha camaro and thats what the marketing speak refers to.
The 2015 OTOH has a static "frame" from which nothing is carried over.
Lower CG, wider, new suspension pickup points on a new subframe up front, a rear unibody designed for IRS from the start, new floors etc.
Update materials are another thing to consider with regard to "newness".
Then add the moving suspension pieces, all of which are new (at least to the mustang).
There is more going on with the chassis then they have publicly stated. They are still working on it and waiting for april.

 

[Vonbrandwolf]

I stand by my predictions

 

[ON D BIT]

Well if you're going to quote me, do it correctly. I said purpose-built performance car. My understanding is the Z/28 uses a NEW chassis with this as a specific design goal....

Second, the Mustang does not compete with...or BMW. At least not in any sanctioned race organization I watch.

While I agree with a lot of what you say I believe chuck stating what team mustang publicly stated, that they were reaching towards the m3 in comparison with their new 11+ mustang gt. As a street car it is damn close too.
Motor Trend ran both the 11 m3 and 11 gt on track and the mustang had better acceleration, lateral g's, figure 8 time. Track time was 1.27.67 m3 and 1.27.76 gt or just nine hundredths of a second difference.
You're right both the vette and r8 will kill the mustang at the track.
Super Coupes Track Attack! - 2011 Ford Mustang GT vs 2011 BMW M3 Coupe - YouTube

To my knowledge the z28 is on the stock chasis that every other 13/14 camaro is built on. The suspension is re-engineered and the interior is shredded as even the weighty a/c is optional. Basically a body in white car sold by the manufacturer to race and street legal.

Yes it will be faster than the zl1.
Yes it will be faster than the boss l/s
No I do not believe any of the times gm post for their camaros. :beer:

 

[darreng505]

Ok. I see your points and they are valid.
The consumer M3 is a pig in my opinion.
And i thought the production z/28 will be on their new chassis. April will bring interesting news im sure.