GT350 vs. Z/28

[germeezy1]

So you have direct access to team Camaro, and yet you write long rambling posts about two cars that will not compete directly? Did they neglect to tell you that the Gen 6 Alpha based Camaro would be the S550 Mustang's competition? Nothing you have written is a secret, and yes it is narcissistic to believe that any of the information you have is somehow notable.

Do you have a car today that can easily show the Z/28 the door on a road course, and could you afford a Z/28 if it had a 638 hp LS9 for $75k?

 

[germeezy1]

If Ford truly did not give a crap about the Camaro they would be absolute idiots. Any time you much worse competitor outsells you in the market you never left for 3 years you should pay attention to them.

 

[germeezy1]

Huh? What? Had trouble following this narcissistic meandering ramble. :??:

All of his posts are exactly the same.

 

[dubbsfaris]

If Ford truly did not give a crap about the Camaro they would be absolute idiots. Any time you much worse competitor outsells you in the market you never left for 3 years you should pay attention to them.

Except I think that is exactly the point. Camaro numbers are partially inflated BECAUSE they left the market. My understanding is that the mustang trails camaro an average of 500 cars a month since 2009. That may seem like a lot, but that's 80k per year vs. 77k per year. Mustang numbers will improve with the new makeover. Don't take my comment so literally. Camaro hasn't exactly been leading the charge in performance lately was my point, and Ford is looking to expand globally.

Now maybe this is their idea of the easiest way to increase sales, but alternative explanations would feed GM trolls and this is a Ford group primarily. Lets not burn Ford fan currency just to disprove an opinion. :beer:

 

[darreng505]

Please do not confuse my ability to write and articulate, sometimes from a handheld, with narcissism.

Fair enough.

 

[Fenixfire]

^

Old idea? There is no replacement for displacement. Is chevy leaving hp on the table sticking to pushrod, sure DOHC motors have less valve train parts thus are more efficient( see BMEP ). However you will never get a N/A DOHC motor to pull like a N/A pushrod motor down low. Pushrods have the low end torque and DOHC's make power high up.

Turbos, nitrous and superchargers all increase effective displacement of air due to compression of molecules and N20 has more oxygen molecules ( Boyle's Law )

How is Ford getting more hp out of less? BA ported heads and a 7500rpm rev range(boss).

It's physics... you can get more horsepower out of 7.0l then 5.0l because in the end you are moving more air. Because in the end all a motor does is move air.

Look at top fuel, 500Cuin and on top of that a 14-71 supercharger at 5.0bars of pressure to increase the effective displacement.

Also fords pushrod 5.0 was in fact a 4.9l 4,942 cc not a real 5.0l. Ford Windsor engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do I like the new Z/28? Hell no but I bet it's going to be a N/A monster with aftermarket parts. You show me a N/A 5.0 302 coyote making 647RWHP that you can putt around on the street... you can't. Jpc is making 550RWHP on a 318Cuin with only 430torque.

Wicked C6 Z06 Makes 647WHP without nitrous or forced induction: All-motor monster inside | LS1Tech.com < and look at that torque almost 600 peak!

Look at my car list, i'm not on either side of the fence.

The problem with the LS7 is it is not boost friendly. Sure you can throw low boost at it, but it can never make big hp because of the thin cylinder walls due to all those cubes.

Also, you seem to forget that mod motors can be absolute torque monsters. (Terminators/Mach 1s) The current 5.0 just isnt setup for torque and it really doesnt need to be.

 

[O'Neill]

I find all this Z28 talk as if its just cover-up for the ZL1 being a failure. I specifically remember all the hype about the ZL1 and how it was going to be.. well.. heres the quote from uncle Al, "We ran the Nürburgring and released a time. Ford took the GT500, too, and never released a time. I guess you can draw your own conclusions."

Also, "We've done simulations. We predict that the ZL1 will be quicker to 60 than the [2013] GT500."

But now you dont hear anymore about it. Now all the attention has turned to the Z28. Its almost as if GM has thrown their failing red-headed step child under the bus, in hopes that their upcoming Z28 will do what they thought the ZL1 would.

But those are just my thoughts....

 

[mustangletback]

I find all this Z28 talk as if its just cover-up for the ZL1 being a failure. I specifically remember all the hype about the ZL1 and how it was going to be.. well.. heres the quote from uncle Al, "We ran the Nürburgring and released a time. Ford took the GT500, too, and never released a time. I guess you can draw your own conclusions."

Also, "We've done simulations. We predict that the ZL1 will be quicker to 60 than the [2013] GT500."

But now you dont hear anymore about it. Now all the attention has turned to the Z28. Its almost as if GM has thrown their failing red-headed step child under the bus, in hopes that their upcoming Z28 will do what they thought the ZL1 would.

But those are just my thoughts....

i agree

 

[thePill]

All of his posts are exactly the same.

Yep, fun and informative... Maybe not fun for you, but you don't like fun anyway.

How's those Camaro Ring times? Kinda sucks they have to go back next year, again, to run the same car, again...

Team Camaro, Team Corvette and Team Mustang were all at the Ring in June 2011. They knew what the GT500 was running, they just continued that BS marketing angle... again, with the same car... Yawn...

I am happy this all came back to f@&^ them, they look completely incompetent. Let me guess, this will be the REAL, REAL Ring time...

 

[specizripn]

I don't think we have to be worried at all. Something tells me the GT350 won't disappoint Just think about the 13 GT500, 600 was the original power figures and then Ford shocked everyone with 662. They like to tease everyone with little bits here and there to keep people interested and then throw a big shock at the end. I guess we will just have to wait and see :beer:

 

[RaceRedSnake]

If Ford was to produce a street legal Mustang track car comparable to the Z28 but faster, would anyone here pay $75000 for it ? I would pony up the money to get one. How about the rest of you ?

 

[black92]

If Ford was to produce a street legal Mustang track car comparable to the Z28 but faster, would anyone here pay $75000 for it ? I would pony up the money to get one. How about the rest of you ?

No

 

[mustangletback]

If Ford was to produce a street legal Mustang track car comparable to the Z28 but faster, would anyone here pay $75000 for it ? I would pony up the money to get one. How about the rest of you ?

if it was less than 70k,and a GT350 i would if i could.:coolman:

 

[RTD]

If Ford was to produce a street legal Mustang track car comparable to the Z28 but faster, would anyone here pay $75000 for it ? I would pony up the money to get one. How about the rest of you ?

Hell no.

The Z/28 at $75k and the new Challenger Hellcat at $70k-$80k are ridiculous.

A 2014 GT500 with SVT/Track Pack/Recaros at $64k is almost as ridiculous as is a 2014 ZL1 with a few options at $60k.

IMO, Ford got the pricing for a special edition pony car right with the Boss and Boss Laguna Seca. Assuming the GT350 is NA not FI and doesn't have unecessary exotic shit like ceramix brakes or a dry sump system, that is exactly how it should be priced, like a Boss LS adjusted for a couple of years of inflation.

 

[specizripn]

Maybe if it can take down a Ferarri or 911 turbo oke:

 

[sonic cobra]

60K can get you a brand new C7 Corvette with Z51 handling package, performance exhaust and comp seats. 465 whp and torque

 

[thePill]

60K can get you a brand new C7 Corvette with Z51 handling package, performance exhaust and comp seats. 465 whp and torque

...and a decent shot at some Regional classes with some practice. Only a 100lbs weight penalty for the LS7 in the SCCA/FIA.

 

[darreng505]

60K can get you a brand new C7 Corvette with Z51 handling package, performance exhaust and comp seats. 465 whp and torque

And that's exactly the problem Ford doesn't have an answer to. No corvette class car to compete and at $53k base for the C7, what is Ford gonna offer that is better and cheaper? There is room between the C7 and Z/28 around $21k, so maybe Ford will wedge the GT350 in there somewhere say $60k and it outperforms the Z/28, making it cost competitive and track competitive. That would be the sweet spot. But if Ford could make a Z/28 killer for $45k then I'm sure Chevy could have too, so offering a SVT car in that price range (that can't outperform) means it will just be humiliated by 2 year old Camaros (by then) also doesn't strike me as a good strategy.

Strikes me they will need two performance models. Something that actually IS an alternative to the C7 (in mechanical numbers) and priced about the same, say $49-55k. And something higher end that is cheaper than a Z/28 but targets the same people with similar performance, say $58-65k. And forget about the Z06, can't touch it....

Loaded GT: $40k targets camaro SS
SVT Vehicle 1: $49-55k targets C7 in price, power (not sure about overall performance, styling, etc.) road car.
SVT Vehicle 2: $58-65k targets Z/28 in price, performance. track car.

 

[mustangletback]

:dancenanak,i say a 650hp GT350 that can kill the z28,for 55k.for that price,they would sell,all that they could build.that 650hp,would put it almost as fast as a z06,and they could maybe pull z28 sales,and z06 sales away from chevy.remember that old BOSS 302 sx had a N/A 500hp motor.im sure they could get another 150hp out of it if they wanted.

 

[thePill]

And that's exactly the problem Ford doesn't have an answer to. No corvette class car to compete and at $53k base for the C7, what is Ford gonna offer that is better and cheaper? There is room between the C7 and Z/28 around $21k, so maybe Ford will wedge the GT350 in there somewhere say $60k and it outperforms the Z/28, making it cost competitive and track competitive. That would be the sweet spot. But if Ford could make a Z/28 killer for $45k then I'm sure Chevy could have too, so offering a SVT car in that price range (that can't outperform) means it will just be humiliated by 2 year old Camaros (by then) also doesn't strike me as a good strategy.

If the '15 GT is faster than the Laguna Seca, that's puttin' the 5.0 close to the C7 Z51. I highly doubt the Z51 is faster than the Z07.

The Z51 should be similar to the ZL1 as far as lap times, I could see it doing better on most occasions. The opportunity exist for a $50-60,000 GT350 and, it will be the first Mustang to go head to head with the Corvette... and have a good shot at a victory in both editor picks, performance and price.

The Mustang and Corvette have the advantage of a roll-over, profit budget and reverse engineering from racing. They can go places other models cannot.