Rip once the diehard GT350 fans read this.
GT350 on the dyno!!!
- Thread starter black92
- Start date
Rip once the diehard GT350 fans read this.
Soon enough we'll start hearing more from folks here who own one. For now, those numbers confirm that the GT-350 is one heck of a ride.
Hmmmm... Kinda like the '69 Boss 302?
It's because of it's 12:1 compression ratio. weak internals? Hardly, Sounds like Chevy fanboi talk
I'd like to see a same day dyno between both the GT and GT350 just to see what the power curves are like. Of the stock '15 GT dyno #'s I can find, the Coyote makes more torque lower, but by 3500rpm they are the same and appear to be close all the way to redline.
:burnout:
Here's a thread from this site about MD results on the 2010 GT500. That car had 540 factory horsepower and made 437 wheel horsepower on a Mustang. Trust me, I've seen this movie a few times. A $48,000 Ford will sustain 18% drivetrain loss. The Ford GT might have a driveshaft made of unobtanium and lubricated with unicorn tears to swing under 15%, but we won't be so lucky.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...53-2010-GT500-stock-dyno-graph-weak-sauce-lol
No way can you compare the GT500 and GT350 regarding drivetrain loss. The GT500 has supercharger loss, tighter piston rings, that big heavy TR6060 to turn over, that big heavy crank with big heavy rods and pistons to turn over, that big heavy clutch and flywheel to turn over... The amount of effort going into the GT350 to reduce friction and improve efficiency is absent in the GT500.
Boost would be iffy because of thin ring lands, piston skirt, drilled crank, and a myriad of smaller things like picking a fuel injector to supply 8500rpm and harmonic balance with that kind of power, the cylinder walls are thin but lined. It'll take some actual engineering to get it right, not just adjusting an existing kit. The 12/1 is easy to get around by playing with the dynamic timing. They do it on coyote's already.
Back on topic, 100 degree day and if put 467whp down? In my opinion, a crisp 60* fall day will see 480whp, maybe 485 in many area's. I'm expecting 1:35-1:36 at MRLS, deep 2:50's, maybe a 2:49 at VIR, and easy 12.0's@120, maybe 11.70's@123 on hero runs.
Gt350's are well sorted, I think many people will be shocked that a hot shoe in an na car will hang and pass zl1's, and hell cats at street legal nights, it'll probably show up some stock gt500's (with average drivers) from time to time.
It's ethos is track car, and it's pretty evident it'll be faster than all of those, and probably even z28's at most track days, drivers being equal.
Biggest thing is obviously driver. But the car is a great package.
Sincerely, Tony from the peanut gallery.
Back on topic, 100 degree day and if put 467whp down? In my opinion, a crisp 60* fall day will see 480whp, maybe 485 in many area's. I'm expecting 1:35-1:36 at MRLS, deep 2:50's, maybe a 2:49 at VIR, and easy 12.0's@120, maybe 11.70's@123 on hero runs.
Gt350's are well sorted, I think many people will be shocked that a hot shoe in an na car will hang and pass zl1's, and hell cats at street legal nights, it'll probably show up some stock gt500's (with average drivers) from time to time.
It's ethos is track car, and it's pretty evident it'll be faster than all of those, and probably even z28's at most track days, drivers being equal.
Biggest thing is obviously driver. But the car is a great package.
Sincerely, Tony from the peanut gallery.
Valid point on temps, bet IATs were high and a little timing pulled. The numbers are pretty much where one would expect when accounting for drivetrain loss etc.. I dont doubt they have more in them at all and agree with the above post. Hell I bet a tune alone has fairly substantial gains, even dialing back the tq mgmt/clutch protection by itself should yield good results.
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I think this car will be awesome.
I mean this is a mustang site I assume you guys should have driven coyote's with cobra jets swaps, cams, etc. I am just a american car whore I drive and work on chevy, ford, dodge and like them all in there own way. I work on a 5.0 with cobra jet swap, longtubes, etc all the time that spins 8k and that car has good power. before I sold my zl1 and put it back to stock that car would roll me strait up 60-130 and it is proabably 15hp down on this car.
So with this car it seem kind of like a marriage of my 2 favorite cars to date. my 07 Z06 and my 13 Zl1. high reving N/a motor with good power, and nice mag ride suspension. I don't really need more than 500whp to test my limits on a road coarse at my driving level. that usually gets you and 11 second car in a strait line which I am fine with for a driver and plenty of power for any track in driving distance.
I mean this should be a bolt on 500whp car. obviously it is not going to be a quarter mile monster like some of the other boosted models out there but as a driver I think it is just going to shine.
the problem i have with the boosted cars like the GT500 or my Zl1 they seem to get heavy 3900+lbs, massive low end toque which the tires they some with don't manage very well. So they are awesome but really hard to put the power down. you look at 60' on either of those cars on stock tire and it is nothing to write home about. you throw tire under them and then you have these 10 second car with minor mods but the minute you put normal tire back under it you pedaling for traction constantly.
I think this car will be a C7 or better with a back seat. which IMO is rad.
I mean this is a mustang site I assume you guys should have driven coyote's with cobra jets swaps, cams, etc. I am just a american car whore I drive and work on chevy, ford, dodge and like them all in there own way. I work on a 5.0 with cobra jet swap, longtubes, etc all the time that spins 8k and that car has good power. before I sold my zl1 and put it back to stock that car would roll me strait up 60-130 and it is proabably 15hp down on this car.
So with this car it seem kind of like a marriage of my 2 favorite cars to date. my 07 Z06 and my 13 Zl1. high reving N/a motor with good power, and nice mag ride suspension. I don't really need more than 500whp to test my limits on a road coarse at my driving level. that usually gets you and 11 second car in a strait line which I am fine with for a driver and plenty of power for any track in driving distance.
I mean this should be a bolt on 500whp car. obviously it is not going to be a quarter mile monster like some of the other boosted models out there but as a driver I think it is just going to shine.
the problem i have with the boosted cars like the GT500 or my Zl1 they seem to get heavy 3900+lbs, massive low end toque which the tires they some with don't manage very well. So they are awesome but really hard to put the power down. you look at 60' on either of those cars on stock tire and it is nothing to write home about. you throw tire under them and then you have these 10 second car with minor mods but the minute you put normal tire back under it you pedaling for traction constantly.
I think this car will be a C7 or better with a back seat. which IMO is rad.
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Any computer you have physical access to is easy to manipulate. That's not even remotely the point here. MD installers going to pain staking lengths to set the machine up properly and calibrate it so it reads the same as other MD installations. The QA process even includes running the same car on a few machines in the same region, to ensure it's similar.
Dynojet leads to delusions about what you have. People come up with wild theories about how manufacturers are under rating engines for marketing or other purposes, and conclude their car is making far more power than claimed. Depending on the day an NA motor will struggle to make the claimed power under ideal conditions. In this sense, MD gives you a far more accurate impression of what you have.
Surf over to a BMW board where everyone is convinced their new M3 makes 420 HP at the wheels. The thing they can't explain is how a competitive car on that same dyno is also making a lot more power than is known to be accurate.
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It doesn't matter what type of powerplant is making the power. It could be an electric motor for all we care. We're trying to resolve the delta between crank horsepower and wheel horsepower. What happens behind the crank is completely irrelevant. It can be a supercharger, a turbocharger, or an actual horse on a treadmill.
I don't remember reading anything about a carbon fiber driveshaft, electric diffs, or anything else that would substantially alter mechanical friction. Similar 6 speed tranny and flywheel (do you really think the flywheel being 19 pounds vs 20.5 pounds is going to move drivetrain loss by more than 0.5%). Similar final drive ratios. Essentially the same drivetrain length.
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Good point on the air resistance. Can that 300 HP V6 motor vary the ignition timing at all? If it can, it can make the same power with less fuel (or more power with the same amount of fuel if you're optimizing for performance).
Sorry, but this is not true at all. Mustang dynos read all over the place because basically it is up to each operator to calibrate and load the dyno for each car. Whether you believe them to be optimistic is another argument altogether, but as a whole dynojets are at the very least more consistent due to the way they are loaded. I have dyno tuned cars in quite a few locations, and i can pretty much tell you what a given car will make on a dynojet, a MD is a crap shoot, i've literally had two read 30 horsepower apart on the same car.
You're right, that's my fault, as most of what i quoted was irrelevant. My bad. However, i still am willing to bet that the drivetrain losses on the GT350 are lower. You cant surely believe the TR6060, designed to hold massive amounts of power and torque, doesnt take up just a little more power to turn over than the GT350 transmission. I'm also willing to bet there are a couple of other little things along the way. They went over this car with a fine toothed comb to keep things light and efficient, i dont think the gt500 got the same treatment. Not a slight against the GT500 by any means, just a statement.
I can believe this is regional, and proportional to whether the dyno was new or used and how recently it was installed. Some shops spend top dollar, some shops just want to throw something a spare bay.
My problem with dynojet is the wheel values are so close to the manufacturer crank value that the calculations need to include a mechanical miracle or a conspiracy theory about product marketing. They call the MD the heart breaker. What's telling is whether you can certify something like a Spec E30 or Spec Miata on the dyno in question. If race teams aren't using it, it's a fantasy dyno. It's like calculating your net worth without factoring in that a liquidity event has substantial tax implications.
I'm willing to accept that we may just have to agree to disagree. My personal problem for example was a local mustang dyno (a heart breaker) that a stock mazdaspeed3 dynod 214 whp on. The speed makes 265 at the crank, that's 20% drivetrain loss from a FWD car? No way. Car put down 240 on a dynojet, which may be a little lofty at 10%, sure, but its a hell of a lot more believable. I'm willing to meet you in the middle though, that it really just does come down to each shop how accurate their dyno is. I know at the end of the day its just supposed to be a tool for measuring gains, but i feel there should at least be a general ballpark thats acceptable.
The numbers are impressive but to get a real idea of what kind of power it makes relative to another car, you'd have to strap another car on the dyno same day, back to back in same conditions. You can't really calculate percent loss that accurately like this because like many of you said, all dyno's read differently. Dyno's are a tuning tool. Great to see gains and power curves, but take the numbers themselves with a grain of salt.
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