GT cams

[droptopsnake01]

I would agree in general about cams and other performance parts that cost a lot and a lot to install, but for the right set of turbo cams, it is worth the money. And I do see you are agreeing there as well.

juiced46 has a great example, he compared his car and a friends car. both had the exact same motor and turbo kit. basically the whole setup was the same except the cams. his friend had turbo cams, I forget the company, but his friend made over 100rwhp more than him at the same boost level. That I say, and am sure you would agree, would be more than worth it.

even less stress on the motor and the hp gains are awesome. that is what I am looking to do and can't wait.

See thats where I just have to ask. Something had to be different. I mean really 100rwhp b/c of cams?? You own a shop correct? And have been around tons of mustangs like myself w/ all kinds of mods. I have seen all kind of awesome results and also tons of results that were suppose to be alot better. Just hard for me to fathom 100rwhp from cams alone.

I think the main thing here is budget. When you do a turbo build big or small it can get expensive. I think when you are going into the build you know that you are going to be making alot more power than before and that waivers your decision on things like cams. It will also let you put that money elsewhere like I said before (motor, fuel system, drivetrain, rims etc)

If I had an endless budget cams would be a go. Or if I had a money back guarantee that it would make 40 more rwhp I would pull the trigger aswell, But we all know that aint happenin ;-)

I also guess that I have just seen to many times where guys drop all that cash for cams with no results aswell, that was also a big part of my decision on why not to do cams. Plus I was broke after spending money on everything else lol.


TRBO VNM what kind of cams did that guy have in the car? Do you happen to have both dyno graphs overlayed?

 

[TRBO VNM]

See thats where I just have to ask. Something had to be different. I mean really 100rwhp b/c of cams?? You own a shop correct? And have been around tons of mustangs like myself w/ all kinds of mods. I have seen all kind of awesome results and also tons of results that were suppose to be alot better. Just hard for me to fathom 100rwhp from cams alone. Yeah, part time shop. Well, temporarily full time since I was laid off of my full time job, but hopefully that is changing in January. I totally agree, but juiced46 (Dave) is a stand up guy and has his own part time business as well as a performance shop. he is well known on these boards and everything as well. no reason to sugar coat it.

I think the main thing here is budget. When you do a turbo build big or small it can get expensive. I think when you are going into the build you know that you are going to be making alot more power than before and that waivers your decision on things like cams. It will also let you put that money elsewhere like I said before (motor, fuel system, drivetrain, rims etc)Again, totally agree like everything else you have said. And the big difference here is for myself and the OP, we already spent the money on the kit and supporting mods and have been rolling. Now time for other upgrades since the initial hit is over with. For me, I know I will be doing a motor, so when that time comes, I might as well do cams considering the resources I have with the engine builder I will be using L&M Engines in PA.

If I had an endless budget cams would be a go. Or if I had a money back guarantee that it would make 40 more rwhp I would pull the trigger aswell, But we all know that aint happenin ;-)I agree, probably won't get a guarantee, however I will ask my builder. he is a stand up guy and backs his builds.

I also guess that I have just seen to many times where guys drop all that cash for cams with no results aswell, that was also a big part of my decision on why not to do cams. Plus I was broke after spending money on everything else lol. Yup, as said above, some people have already put that money out, so now it is time for other upgrades to get the most out of the combo.


TRBO VNM what kind of cams did that guy have in the car? Do you happen to have both dyno graphs overlayed?

Send juiced46 a pm, he may have them or could get them. I believe him, so I never asked. he has posted in here and I thought they were comp cams, but I could be wrong.

 

[99riocobra]

wow glad this turned out to be a great discussion! i guess i'm still sorta convinced that a "blower" cam will be better for a turbo setup. i know Drew(droptop) has had great luck on stock cams, but from everything i've seen NA cams always have a slower spool. mabe some of it is me just being extra pissed that my cam timing was more than likely way off which was (hopefully) the reason my car spooled late and made no torque...

 

[dan03mach]

wow glad this turned out to be a great discussion! i guess i'm still sorta convinced that a "blower" cam will be better for a turbo setup. i know Drew(droptop) has had great luck on stock cams, but from everything i've seen NA cams always have a slower spool. mabe some of it is me just being extra pissed that my cam timing was more than likely way off which was (hopefully) the reason my car spooled late and made no torque...

My blower cams make great power up top and mid rang but not too great down low at all. And the tq isn't there down low either and that is what I want. I have the Comp XE274BH Blower/Nitrous cams because I was going to put a blower on the car but did a turbo instead. At 20psi it put down 750rwhp and 715rwtq @ 20 psi and a super fat A/F of 10.0, so it could have made a lot more leaned out a little bit. But I'm thinking about taking the cams out and putting either my 03 cams in or a set of 01 cams that I also have. I want more low end tq and faster spool. I don't really care if it loses too much power up top. So what do you guys think will the stock 03 or 01 cams work better as for spool up and low end tq and still give good upper end hp or the Comp XE274BH blower cams that I have now? The car sounds nasty with the blower cams in but I don't really care about that either. I almost want it quiet at hell and a sleeper now and tired of everything shaking all the time. lol

 

[99riocobra]

hmm, well i think there was some confusion. when i said "blower cam" i was referring to the 03/04 or the GT cams. your situation is probably a little skewed cause it seems aftermarket blower cams are more towards making top end power(or holding the torque at higher rpms). from everything i've gathered the stock 03 cams will spool quicker, while the 01's will be slower but provide more top end due to the duration. i'll sell you my stock 01 cams when they'r eout if you want...

 

[dan03mach]

hmm, well i think there was some confusion. when i said "blower cam" i was referring to the 03/04 or the GT cams. your situation is probably a little skewed cause it seems aftermarket blower cams are more towards making top end power(or holding the torque at higher rpms). from everything i've gathered the stock 03 cams will spool quicker, while the 01's will be slower but provide more top end due to the duration. i'll sell you my stock 01 cams when they'r eout if you want...

I have both 01 cams and 03 cams and also the Comp XE274BH blower cams which are in the car now... And yes that make great upper end hp and tq. It was over 700ft tq at 5300rpms. but the lower end sucks donkey balls for a turbo car. The upper end is nasty though.

 

[droptopsnake01]

Send juiced46 a pm, he may have them or could get them. I believe him, so I never asked. he has posted in here and I thought they were comp cams, but I could be wrong.

Thank man. Good luck with your build aswell. I must say it looks like the "turbo cams" have come a long way in 1.5 years aswell. I guess when I was doing my build I just didnt want to take that risk, and again money was a factor. After 15k + spent you dont want to spend no more lol. But with what Im reading now I would have gone with them, esp since I already have the Fr500 hardware in my heads so I could have just bought cams and been ready to roll. They sound badass aswell!

I have always wondered what my car would have made with turbo cams, a sullivan intake, aftermarket t/b and some free flowing mufflers (I have flowmasters now).

My car made 888/945 on 24-25psi w/ 18* and a 11:5/ 1a/f

I bet I could have squeezed 950rwhp out of those lil 57's. What could have been lol.

 

[droptopsnake01]

wow glad this turned out to be a great discussion! i guess i'm still sorta convinced that a "blower" cam will be better for a turbo setup. i know Drew(droptop) has had great luck on stock cams, but from everything i've seen NA cams always have a slower spool. mabe some of it is me just being extra pissed that my cam timing was more than likely way off which was (hopefully) the reason my car spooled late and made no torque...

I will say if your already going to be taking the cams out to check the timing then I would do the swap. I mean shoot, the thread right above this one you have MMR cams at what 1 grand? And they claim great #'s. If your already paying for the labor might aswell.

Gearing also plays a role in spooltime aswell. And a right sized matched turbo.

My 57's were good to go a 4300 rpm's.

Are you pullin your heads apart?

 

[droptopsnake01]

http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u220/drivnfool/?action=view&current=031b5e64.pbr

Ok guys, here is a link to my dyno session. The graph is at the end.

Also let me also expalin my turbo cam issue i had with my build.

When we tore down my first motor we saw where I had some kind of oiling issue in the cam journals. It had so wear in the journals and the cams I had in it at the time (Fr500) so When we cleaned up the cam journals and the cams I didnt want there to be a cleareance issue. So instead of me having to buy new and ported 03 cobra heads I decided to just but a set of 03 cobra cams for $100.

Just wanted to let people know what happened so they can understand my decision so it might be able to explain and help you out.

 

[dan03mach]

I will say if your already going to be taking the cams out to check the timing then I would do the swap. I mean shoot, the thread right above this one you have MMR cams at what 1 grand? And they claim great #'s. If your already paying for the labor might aswell.

Gearing also plays a role in spooltime aswell. And a right sized matched turbo.

My 57's were good to go a 4300 rpm's.

Are you pullin your heads apart?

The problem with the MMR cams is that they CLAIM to make great numbers but I have yet to see proof of anything and I have asked many time to post up a dyno sheet so we can see what the graph looks like. I know I'm not going to spend the money with out some kind of proof in the claims. I want to see the graph and see what it looks like... I do know that the HPP custom turbo cams do work very well and I might just buy those.

 

[droptopsnake01]

The problem with the MMR cams is that they CLAIM to make great numbers but I have yet to see proof of anything and I have asked many time to post up a dyno sheet so we can see what the graph looks like. I know I'm not going to spend the money with out some kind of proof in the claims. I want to see the graph and see what it looks like... I do know that the HPP custom turbo cams do work very well and I might just buy those.

thats what I was saying. You will hear alot of "claims" when talking about cams. What are the HPP turbo cams results you have seen on the dyno?

Before/after install everything else the same?

 

[dan03mach]

thats what I was saying. You will hear alot of "claims" when talking about cams. What are the HPP turbo cams results you have seen on the dyno?

Before/after install everything else the same?

They are huge... They make great tq and hp thru out the curve. They have a couple of cobras with stroker motors ported heads their cams and twin 61's making over 1100rwhp Same cams they use in their race car that is a 4v mod motor with a single 98mm with a stroker motor that has ran 7.7 @ 180mph... I'll post a graph of one of their single turbo cars with those cams in it when I get to the house. I'm really thinking about selling mine and buying their cams.

 

[droptopsnake01]

They are huge... They make great tq and hp thru out the curve. They have a couple of cobras with stroker motors ported heads their cams and twin 61's making over 1100rwhp Same cams they use in their race car that is a 4v mod motor with a single 98mm with a stroker motor that has ran 7.7 @ 180mph... I'll post a graph of one of their single turbo cars with those cams in it when I get to the house. I'm really thinking about selling mine and buying their cams.

Just make sure you are looking at cars/dyno sheets with mods similar to yours. Not race cars. And make sure its apples to apples.

I would hope they would have same car w/ stock cams, then same car with their cams on the dyno. Thats the only true way to tell ya know.

 

[dan03mach]

Just make sure you are looking at cars/dyno sheets with mods similar to yours. Not race cars. And make sure its apples to apples.

I would hope they would have same car w/ stock cams, then same car with their cams on the dyno. Thats the only true way to tell ya know.

Yup and that is what I am looking for... I have seen what the stock cams do and what the curve looks like and I have also seen what their turbo cams do and the dyno curve that they make. It spools pretty quick and makes great tq and hp...

 

[droptopsnake01]

Yup and that is what I am looking for... I have seen what the stock cams do and what the curve looks like and I have also seen what their turbo cams do and the dyno curve that they make. It spools pretty quick and makes great tq and hp...

There you go. When you have a min, post up some graphs.

 

[dan03mach]

There you go. When you have a min, post up some graphs.

I wont get to the house for about 2 hours I'll find a couple and post them up.

 

[dan03mach]

Here is a copy of what they posted on another board about one of their single turbo cars.

Have you seen HPP's single 76mm results from last week?

03 Cobra Setup -
HPP Teksid block 302 stroker - .020 Over, Kellog Crank
HPP Ported heads, oversized valves, HPP Billet turbo grind cams
Sullivan intake manifold, LFP single blade, HPP upper
Ford 80lb. injectors, Fore Hat two Walbro 342's, 8an supply / 6 an return
2800 SCT
Ram Twin disk 26 spline
Stock IRS
Hellion hot side Precision Billet T-76 / .96 AR, 4" downpipe and cutout, dual 3" exhaust
Custom HPP Racing intercooler and cold pipes
Twin Wastegate setup
4" DP with E-Cutout

On 20lbs it made over 100rwhp more than before the Intercooler/DP upgrades.

24psi - 16 Degrees - 921 rwhp 834 rwtq

-W

 

[dan03mach]

Fastlane Motorsports Twin Turbo Cobra Dyno Drew Owens remix by drivnfool - Photobucket

Ok guys, here is a link to my dyno session. The graph is at the end.

Also let me also expalin my turbo cam issue i had with my build.

When we tore down my first motor we saw where I had some kind of oiling issue in the cam journals. It had so wear in the journals and the cams I had in it at the time (Fr500) so When we cleaned up the cam journals and the cams I didnt want there to be a cleareance issue. So instead of me having to buy new and ported 03 cobra heads I decided to just but a set of 03 cobra cams for $100.

Just wanted to let people know what happened so they can understand my decision so it might be able to explain and help you out.

I just saw the vid and dyno graph. Now do you still have the T56 or is that an auto? That dyno graph is nuts and if that is what stock cams will do I think I'll go ahead and put my stock cams back in.

 

[droptopsnake01]

Here is a copy of what they posted on another board about one of their single turbo cars.

any way you can crop out that graph in there?

Also with that 100+rwhp gain im getting that they got that with a upgraded intercooler, downpipe and the turbo cams correct? Not just a cam swap?

 

[droptopsnake01]

I just saw the vid and dyno graph. Now do you still have the T56 or is that an auto? That dyno graph is nuts and if that is what stock cams will do I think I'll go ahead and put my stock cams back in.

Yes I still have the T-56 in there. And thats where Im coming from in saying I dont think there is a turbo cam out there that would add 40rwhp to my graph/curve if that were to be the only thing I changed.

Unless we have any vendors out here that want to test it out, and if it does I bet they wouldnt be able to keep those cams on their shelf :beer: