GT cams

[99riocobra]

I will say if your already going to be taking the cams out to check the timing then I would do the swap. I mean shoot, the thread right above this one you have MMR cams at what 1 grand? And they claim great #'s. If your already paying for the labor might aswell.

Gearing also plays a role in spooltime aswell. And a right sized matched turbo.

My 57's were good to go a 4300 rpm's.

Are you pullin your heads apart?

yea i mean i'm gonna be taking the heads off for sure(regardless if my issue is a guide seal or not) and hopefully get them mild ported/cleaned up. so perfect time to do cams. i don't know if i'm gonna be able to swing a set of turbo cams. the GT cams with new springs will be enough for me i'm sure...we'll see how the money tree looks in a month or so though lol

Fastlane Motorsports Twin Turbo Cobra Dyno Drew Owens remix by drivnfool - Photobucket

Ok guys, here is a link to my dyno session. The graph is at the end.

Also let me also expalin my turbo cam issue i had with my build.

When we tore down my first motor we saw where I had some kind of oiling issue in the cam journals. It had so wear in the journals and the cams I had in it at the time (Fr500) so When we cleaned up the cam journals and the cams I didnt want there to be a cleareance issue. So instead of me having to buy new and ported 03 cobra heads I decided to just but a set of 03 cobra cams for $100.

Just wanted to let people know what happened so they can understand my decision so it might be able to explain and help you out.

oh, so you aren't running the stock 01 cams then? that makes sense to me cause everything i've seen makes it seem like NA cams aren't good for making big power, and especially torque, with turbos.

 

[dan03mach]

any way you can crop out that graph in there?

Also with that 100+rwhp gain im getting that they got that with a upgraded intercooler, downpipe and the turbo cams correct? Not just a cam swap?

you are correct... They already had the cams in there and just changed some things in the kit. You put the 03 cams back in yours correct?

 

[droptopsnake01]

yea i mean i'm gonna be taking the heads off for sure(regardless if my issue is a guide seal or not) and hopefully get them mild ported/cleaned up. so perfect time to do cams. i don't know if i'm gonna be able to swing a set of turbo cams. the GT cams with new springs will be enough for me i'm sure...we'll see how the money tree looks in a month or so though lol



oh, so you aren't running the stock 01 cams then? that makes sense to me cause everything i've seen makes it seem like NA cams aren't good for making big power, and especially torque, with turbos.

Man if you are gonna have your heads taken apart I would really think about swinging the extra $600 (over the gt cams) for a nice set of turbo cams. Because if you didn't you might always think what could have been but you will never do it again once the motor is buttoned up. If it were me I would either do turbo cams, or buy some stock 03/04 cams for $100 and you also wont have to worry about springs going that route.

Yep, Im running 03/04 cams.

 

[droptopsnake01]

you are correct... They already had the cams in there and just changed some things in the kit. You put the 03 cams back in yours correct?

See I want to see a dyno graph where they just change cams and thats it.

For example my car.

Dyno it how it is. Then take out my 03 cobra cams, put some turbo cams in there and dyno it again.

On the graph you posted you cant tell what the cams themself added since really what was changed was the intercooler and downpipe.

 

[dan03mach]

See I want to see a dyno graph where they just change cams and thats it.

For example my car.

Dyno it how it is. Then take out my 03 cobra cams, put some turbo cams in there and dyno it again.

On the graph you posted you cant tell what the cams themself added since really what was changed was the intercooler and downpipe.

Once I put my stock cams back in I'll post up a dyno sheet from before and after at the same boost level.... The cams are no big deal for me to change out. It is about a days worth of work to change them and put everything back so if it doesn't work out right I can just put them back in. I already have the comp springs and stainless valves in there so it isn't really a big deal. The hardest part is lining up the wastegate flanges to match up perfectly with the exhaust and hot side.

 

[droptopsnake01]

Once I put my stock cams back in I'll post up a dyno sheet from before and after at the same boost level.... The cams are no big deal for me to change out. It is about a days worth of work to change them and put everything back so if it doesn't work out right I can just put them back in. I already have the comp springs and stainless valves in there so it isn't really a big deal. The hardest part is lining up the wastegate flanges to match up perfectly with the exhaust and hot side.

well there you go. You can best the test subject lol.

Almost I consider this a win win situation. If you dont do turbo cams you can still make a ton of power and save some money.

If you do put in turbo cams you spend more money but you make more power, alot more hopefully.

win-win

 

[dan03mach]

well there you go. You can best the test subject lol.

Almost I consider this a win win situation. If you dont do turbo cams you can still make a ton of power and save some money.

If you do put in turbo cams you spend more money but you make more power, alot more hopefully.

win-win

Actually a buddy of mine that has those same HPP cams in his motor just sold his turbo system and going back to N20 for some open comp racing class. Anyway he is selling me his cams for the same price I am selling mine for. So I'll probably put those turbo cams in. I am just going to make sure they will work with my motor and not have to fly cut the pistons because I'm not doing that shit. I call this a win win win situation. I get turbo cams at no extra cost to me, They will make more tq down low then my blower cams I have now, they will spool quicker, and should make more upper end power too. I'm liking it...

 

[Juiced46]

See thats where I just have to ask. Something had to be different. I mean really 100rwhp b/c of cams?? You own a shop correct? And have been around tons of mustangs like myself w/ all kinds of mods. I have seen all kind of awesome results and also tons of results that were suppose to be alot better. Just hard for me to fathom 100rwhp from cams alone.

It is VERY possible to pick up 100rwhp with cams alone on a turbo car, especially if you are running 03/04 Cobra cams which arent meant for a turbo. Like Jason said a customer of mine had basically the same combo as me. He recently went with a new shortblock with higher compression.

But with the old shortblock, identical as mine, same CR as , but he had a set of MMR Turbo ground cams in thereSame turbo kit. He uses the same tuner, and same dyno as me as well. Same fuel, same timing etc. He made 791rwhp @18psi. I made 730rwhp @24psi both were with a stick in the car. So he made 60 more rwhp then me on 6psi less. If we added 6 psi, he would have made well over 100rwhp more then me. We then added a 4" DP. The car laid down 860rwhp @21psi. Thats 130rwhp MORE then me with 3 less #s of boost! He did add the 4" DP which helped pick up some, but this car (which ive built both) consistently makes more power then me with a similar combo plus cams with alot less boost. If we pushed his car to 24#s like mine it would have laid down 900rwhp all day. Even if we "assume" the DP added 60rwhp, he still would make 100rwhp more then me from the cams. When we recently built the new motor I contacted John @ Modular Performance. We actually wanted to go to a set of his turbo grind cams. Basically because we had some issues with MMR (not the cams) but with other stuff. When we spoke to John he also claims 100rwhp with his cams on a turbo car. This guy knows his stuff to. He has been on the game for a long time and doesnt BS. However we didnt go with them because he even said it wasnt worth us to swap because his specs were very close to MMR and he didnt want to make my buddy spend more money for no reason. If you have the money and the motor is apart it is worth it all day long!

 

[99riocobra]

Man if you are gonna have your heads taken apart I would really think about swinging the extra $600 (over the gt cams) for a nice set of turbo cams. Because if you didn't you might always think what could have been but you will never do it again once the motor is buttoned up. If it were me I would either do turbo cams, or buy some stock 03/04 cams for $100 and you also wont have to worry about springs going that route.

Yep, Im running 03/04 cams.

damn it what the hell. i go into this thread hoping everyone's gonna convince me to just go with the 03/04 cams. now i'm considering just doing the MMR turbo cams...so much for the budget lol :kaboom:. but dang your making some power/torque with those 03 cams!!! it's hard to argue that...

It is VERY possible to pick up 100rwhp with cams alone on a turbo car, especially if you are running 03/04 Cobra cams which arent meant for a turbo. Like Jason said a customer of mine had basically the same combo as me. He recently went with a new shortblock with higher compression.

But with the old shortblock, identical as mine, same CR as , but he had a set of MMR Turbo ground cams in thereSame turbo kit. He uses the same tuner, and same dyno as me as well. Same fuel, same timing etc. He made 791rwhp @18psi. I made 730rwhp @24psi both were with a stick in the car. So he made 60 more rwhp then me on 6psi less. If we added 6 psi, he would have made well over 100rwhp more then me. We then added a 4" DP. The car laid down 860rwhp @21psi. Thats 130rwhp MORE then me with 3 less #s of boost! He did add the 4" DP which helped pick up some, but this car (which ive built both) consistently makes more power then me with a similar combo plus cams with alot less boost. If we pushed his car to 24#s like mine it would have laid down 900rwhp all day. Even if we "assume" the DP added 60rwhp, he still would make 100rwhp more then me from the cams. When we recently built the new motor I contacted John @ Modular Performance. We actually wanted to go to a set of his turbo grind cams. Basically because we had some issues with MMR (not the cams) but with other stuff. When we spoke to John he also claims 100rwhp with his cams on a turbo car. This guy knows his stuff to. He has been on the game for a long time and doesnt BS. However we didnt go with them because he even said it wasnt worth us to swap because his specs were very close to MMR and he didnt want to make my buddy spend more money for no reason. If you have the money and the motor is apart it is worth it all day long!

DAMN IT!!! as if i wasn't already convinced...do you know what stage turbo cams from MMR? is that the mineral grey '01 car you're talking about?

i see that car has a Precision 78mm too. i guess that and the ported heads add some over a stock head and turbonetics 76mm...

 

[droptopsnake01]

damn it what the hell. i go into this thread hoping everyone's gonna convince me to just go with the 03/04 cams. now i'm considering just doing the MMR turbo cams...so much for the budget lol :kaboom:. but dang your making some power/torque with those 03 cams!!! it's hard to argue that...


DAMN IT!!! as if i wasn't already convinced...do you know what stage turbo cams from MMR? is that the mineral grey '01 car you're talking about?

i see that car has a Precision 78mm too. i guess that and the ported heads add some over a stock head and turbonetics 76mm...

Yea man. My car made a shitton of power and I was suprised.

Remember that was with just 110 and only 24psi aswell.

If you look at my graph you might understand why I think I would not gain 100rwhp with just a cam swap, I dont see me even gaining 50rwhp.

Like I said if you go with 03/04 cams for cheap then good. But if your gonna buy cams and spring just get turbo cams.

Juiced46, thanks alot for you post. Some questions tho like 99riocobra pointed out did that other car have a 78mm turbo vs your 76 and ported heads vs you stock heads?

I guess Im just still not convinced about 100rwhp gain claims. I mean I know they will give you more power but damn 100rwhp.

If I can make 100rwhp more with a cam swap that means you will have a twin 57mm, 01 intake, stock t/b, flowmaster cobra make 1000rwhp.

Not to brag but I have not seen a twin 57 car make the power mine did even with turbo cams on the same psi? Im sure there is something out there just sayin.

 

[2bscrewed]

Yea man. My car made a shitton of power and I was suprised.

Remember that was with just 110 and only 24psi aswell.

If you look at my graph you might understand why I think I would not gain 100rwhp with just a cam swap, I dont see me even gaining 50rwhp.

Like I said if you go with 03/04 cams for cheap then good. But if your gonna buy cams and spring just get turbo cams.

Juiced46, thanks alot for you post. Some questions tho like 99riocobra pointed out did that other car have a 78mm turbo vs your 76 and ported heads vs you stock heads?

I guess Im just still not convinced about 100rwhp gain claims. I mean I know they will give you more power but damn 100rwhp.

If I can make 100rwhp more with a cam swap that means you will have a twin 57mm, 01 intake, stock t/b, flowmaster cobra make 1000rwhp.

Not to brag but I have not seen a twin 57 car make the power mine did even with turbo cams on the same psi? Im sure there is something out there just sayin.

What has your car trapped with that power? I just ask becasue dyno numbers on turbos cars can be very sketchy.

 

[99riocobra]

Yea man. My car made a shitton of power and I was suprised.

Remember that was with just 110 and only 24psi aswell.

If you look at my graph you might understand why I think I would not gain 100rwhp with just a cam swap, I dont see me even gaining 50rwhp.

Like I said if you go with 03/04 cams for cheap then good. But if your gonna buy cams and spring just get turbo cams.

Juiced46, thanks alot for you post. Some questions tho like 99riocobra pointed out did that other car have a 78mm turbo vs your 76 and ported heads vs you stock heads?

I guess Im just still not convinced about 100rwhp gain claims. I mean I know they will give you more power but damn 100rwhp.

If I can make 100rwhp more with a cam swap that means you will have a twin 57mm, 01 intake, stock t/b, flowmaster cobra make 1000rwhp.

Not to brag but I have not seen a twin 57 car make the power mine did even with turbo cams on the same psi? Im sure there is something out there just sayin.

Yea, I'll probably have to agree. 100rwhp from just cams seems highly unlikely. Like you said though I'd love for someone to send you a set to test out...

From what it looks like I'm probably gonna go with 03/04 cams just due to the cost. They should be worlds better than the stock 01 cams anyhow...

I'm pretty sure Juiced has or had a precision 78mm so that would be equal, not sure on the heads. I was more meaning comparing the cammed cars numbers to a standard Hellion car.

I kind of just wish someone would decide for me lol

 

[nitemarestang]

I kind of just wish someone would decide for me lol

That would make it to easy for ya. Im on the same fence about cams and intakes. Debating the sully or the new mmr 1 if they make them for us.

 

[ret_junior]

What has your car trapped with that power? I just ask becasue dyno numbers on turbos cars can be very sketchy.

Exactly! Especially when the power is going through a auto :beer: I have seen this first hand.

 

[99riocobra]

That would make it to easy for ya. Im on the same fence about cams and intakes. Debating the sully or the new mmr 1 if they make them for us.

yea i know man! i wouldn't see why they wouldn't have a "C" head version of that ya know. that's why i held off getting my 01 intake ported for the time being in case they do...

 

[nitemarestang]

yea i know man! i wouldn't see why they wouldn't have a "C" head version of that ya know. that's why i held off getting my 01 intake ported for the time being in case they do...

Lol, yea. Was gonna go with the Sully, but im gona play the wait and see part. Depends on price of course tho

 

[99riocobra]

most definitely. if it's too outrageous then the stocker's getting some work done like how NAZ did them(don't think he's doing them at the moment).

 

[nitemarestang]

most definitely. if it's too outrageous then the stocker's getting some work done like how NAZ did them(don't think he's doing them at the moment).

Yea. If Naz is still out of the game, il prob just step up to the Sullivan then. As i need to get my hoopti converted to blow-through.

 

[Juiced46]

DAMN IT!!! as if i wasn't already convinced...do you know what stage turbo cams from MMR? is that the mineral grey '01 car you're talking about?

i see that car has a Precision 78mm too. i guess that and the ported heads add some over a stock head and turbonetics 76mm...

I was running a 76gts on my car at the time, the 860rwhp car was using a 78mm which we really didnt see to much of a difference between turbos. Not sure what stage the cams were.

Yea man. My car made a shitton of power and I was suprised.

Remember that was with just 110 and only 24psi aswell.

If you look at my graph you might understand why I think I would not gain 100rwhp with just a cam swap, I dont see me even gaining 50rwhp.

Like I said if you go with 03/04 cams for cheap then good. But if your gonna buy cams and spring just get turbo cams.

Juiced46, thanks alot for you post. Some questions tho like 99riocobra pointed out did that other car have a 78mm turbo vs your 76 and ported heads vs you stock heads?

I guess Im just still not convinced about 100rwhp gain claims. I mean I know they will give you more power but damn 100rwhp.

If I can make 100rwhp more with a cam swap that means you will have a twin 57mm, 01 intake, stock t/b, flowmaster cobra make 1000rwhp.

Not to brag but I have not seen a twin 57 car make the power mine did even with turbo cams on the same psi? Im sure there is something out there just sayin.

What kind of power did your car make? If I remember you made big #s. The issue with your car you may have already tapped out your turbos, so assuming you may make 1khp may be a stretch because those turbos may be done. Worst case it will make the same power or a little more with less boost

What has your car trapped with that power? I just ask becasue dyno numbers on turbos cars can be very sketchy.

I agree 100%. no offense to anyone, but there are a few shops no matter what the setup is, they make huge #s which seems a little weary. Id like to see trap speed #s. The #s I use to compare are all cars I have built, same dyno and same tuner, so its somewhat accurate.

That would make it to easy for ya. Im on the same fence about cams and intakes. Debating the sully or the new mmr 1 if they make them for us.

Im having 2 Naz ported short runner intakes repaired that will be for sale if you are interested.

Go with the turbo cams. If the motor is out and you have the extra cash do it! It will make power. If the top engine builders in the game are saying they will make the #s Id trust them! Cams can make a huge difference! I installed a set of blower cams in a KB 07 GT and he picked up 50rwhp! This was on a stock motor, with stock heads and manifolds. Ill guarantee you will pick up 50-100rwhp with a correct set of turbo cams ground to match your combo (unless your turbo is tapped out).

Next time my motor is out, hopefully not for a while, Im going with a custom ground set of Turbo cams from MP for sure. Its foolish not to, you are leaving alot of power on the table. Its hard to get a back to back comparison, because most people when they go with cams, they drastically change their combo and the cams are not the only thing that was changed.

 

[droptopsnake01]

What has your car trapped with that power? I just ask becasue dyno numbers on turbos cars can be very sketchy.

My car trapped 132ish mph on 16psi...

I never ran it on anything more lol. Im guessin that was around 650rwhp?