Granatelli COP actual results

[MYSTCHRM]

Here are my thoughts on the product and I'm offering actual results.

Installation: Pretty straight forward. Not sure why Granatelli felt a need to reverse the polarity, but that is not difficult and didn't take much time.

They provide you coil cover spacers and I'm not a fan of them. They press into the coil cover and don't seal the OEM coil cover section that allows the wiring to enter the coil cavity. The spacers hardly hold the stock gasket in place and that presents a headache when trying to reinstall them. I used a little rtv to hold them in place. The spacer itself leaves a huge gap where the wiring enters the coil cavity and the gasket is left to flop left or right and not seal properly. I can only imagine the condensation build up under there now.

After changing the polarity, putting the coils in place, no issues. Putting the coil covers back on was an issue, but I can live with that. However, no where in any of the directions on any site that I've found does it tell you that the stock bolts that hold the coil cover on valve cover need to be replaced. They are too short. Nothing like having your only mode of transportation disabled so you can't get yourself the replacement bolts! That really pissed me off and I have to say that Granatelli could have just tossed those replacements in with the package. If you offer a kit, then it should come with what you need to complete the swap. Very poor if you ask me.

Actual results: Idles smooth. Throttle response might be better but not significantly. Took the car for a drive and I can't say that I noticed anything different. Next day, time to dyno and see if you get their 15hp gain for n/a cars and up to 35hp gain for supercharged cars. My previous dyno presented 434. Dyno with Granetelli COP's, 436. 2hp gain. Not enough of a gain for me to say that the gain wasn't due to air conditions or something else.

For $400, I'm not seeing any benefit. I'm going to play with the plug gapping. Stock gapping says .042, I'm going to try .050 and see if these 60,000 volt COP's can give me anything.

There is a video on the Granatelli site as well as American Muscle site that shows the swap and I cannot believe that they didn't leave steps out. They don't use the coil spacers. If you don't, the cover is not deep enough to allow for the angle of connectors (the stock are straight, Granatelli's are on an upward angle). If you were to attempt to put the coil cover back on without the spacer, you would damage the coil connectors. They even state that no spacer is necessary in the video!!! Maybe a difference between the Ford GT valve cover and the Cobra valve cover? I doubt it, but possible. And there is NO mention of the polarity swap. They got a hp/tq gain and I didn't see any.

I'm not bashing Granatelli, but their kit is not complete and I'm not seeing the results they claim. That is my opinion and my actual results.

 

[B_Pay]

Thanks for the objective review with actual data.

I think too many times people get caught up in the hype and marketing. Granatelli, WeaponX, MSD, any aftermarket ignition systems for our cars in general don't seem to be the greatest in terms of hp/$.

I'm no expert on this type of thing but if you have spark and it ignites fuel, what does it matter if your spark is hotter or whatever there claims may be.

 

[MYSTCHRM]

I too am no expert. I had a coil go bad so I thought that changing these out would be a timely gamble.

I'm also curious to hear what people think of the plug gap I'm going with.

 

[Black2003Vert]

I also have the Granatelli's for my Terminator, and I noticed no difference.

 

[lizardbreath]

What's stupid is that in the video they use a FORD GT instead of a Mustang to make their results.

 

[2004silvercobra]

i think alot of your problem is the gap even at stock with a pulley and few other basic mods i was at .035 and now with the kb at .031 .042 is way to much

 

[TERMIN8TR]

snake oil.....nice post and thanks for your time

 

[GodStang]

Just a couple things. MSD does not make COPs for our cars they are for 2V only at this time. Also I think you got an old set. The new ones you do not switch polairties and I also think you do not need a spacer with the new ones. Not 100% on that. Hopefully we will get COP results back soon.

 

[TRBO VNM]

Here are my thoughts on the product and I'm offering actual results.

Installation: Pretty straight forward. Not sure why Granatelli felt a need to reverse the polarity, but that is not difficult and didn't take much time.

They provide you coil cover spacers and I'm not a fan of them. They press into the coil cover and don't seal the OEM coil cover section that allows the wiring to enter the coil cavity. The spacers hardly hold the stock gasket in place and that presents a headache when trying to reinstall them. I used a little rtv to hold them in place. The spacer itself leaves a huge gap where the wiring enters the coil cavity and the gasket is left to flop left or right and not seal properly. I can only imagine the condensation build up under there now.

After changing the polarity, putting the coils in place, no issues. Putting the coil covers back on was an issue, but I can live with that. However, no where in any of the directions on any site that I've found does it tell you that the stock bolts that hold the coil cover on valve cover need to be replaced. They are too short. Nothing like having your only mode of transportation disabled so you can't get yourself the replacement bolts! That really pissed me off and I have to say that Granatelli could have just tossed those replacements in with the package. If you offer a kit, then it should come with what you need to complete the swap. Very poor if you ask me.

Actual results: Idles smooth. Throttle response might be better but not significantly. Took the car for a drive and I can't say that I noticed anything different. Next day, time to dyno and see if you get their 15hp gain for n/a cars and up to 35hp gain for supercharged cars. My previous dyno presented 434. Dyno with Granetelli COP's, 436. 2hp gain. Not enough of a gain for me to say that the gain wasn't due to air conditions or something else.

For $400, I'm not seeing any benefit. I'm going to play with the plug gapping. Stock gapping says .042, I'm going to try .050 and see if these 60,000 volt COP's can give me anything.

There is a video on the Granatelli site as well as American Muscle site that shows the swap and I cannot believe that they didn't leave steps out. They don't use the coil spacers. If you don't, the cover is not deep enough to allow for the angle of connectors (the stock are straight, Granatelli's are on an upward angle). If you were to attempt to put the coil cover back on without the spacer, you would damage the coil connectors. They even state that no spacer is necessary in the video!!! Maybe a difference between the Ford GT valve cover and the Cobra valve cover? I doubt it, but possible. And there is NO mention of the polarity swap. They got a hp/tq gain and I didn't see any.

I'm not bashing Granatelli, but their kit is not complete and I'm not seeing the results they claim. That is my opinion and my actual results.

nice review. what were the temp differences between your first dyno and then now with the Granatelli COP's? I assume same dyno. the 2hp change could happen with not even changing anything on the car. I have seen as much as 6rwhp/tq change depending on cooling of the car.

 

[sambandit]

Unfortunately, it just goes to show what I already believe, that it's a interestnig mod but in no way worth the money. Sure, if you have done everything else, and you have a few hundo burning a hole in your pocket, do it.... But in the words of the immortal Public Enemy, don't believe the hype!....lol

 

[MYSTCHRM]

I don't have a dyno sheet yet to look at the temps. If I had to take a guess, I'd bet they were very close. I also agree about the hp gains and losses with no changes in mods. This is not the same dyno that I got my previous numbers. This was another reason why I stated, "Not enough of a gain for me to say that the gain wasn't due to air conditions or something else."

In the three Dyno Jets I've tested my car, they are all within 4 rwhp. I believe this gap to actually be smaller as the air temp was 15' cooler on my highest number of 438rwhp. I don't like using that number only because it was very cool that day and is my very highest number. I've consistantly been at 434.

Now my bogging problem has returned. Now I'm beginning to think it is a clogged fuel injector. I'm going to change the fuel filter and send the injectors out to be cleaned.

 

[AMB]

COP's

The ONLY time that HI-OUTPUT COP's etc. etc. will give you more "HP", is if your STOCK COP's etc. etc; won't put out enough voltage/current for the PLUG GAP/BOOST yoi are using !!! Just changing from STOCK COP's to HIGH-OUTPUT COP's will not give you any more HP !!!

AMB

 

[MYSTCHRM]

The ONLY time that HI-OUTPUT COP's etc. etc. will give you more "HP", is if your STOCK COP's etc. etc; won't put out enough voltage/current for the PLUG GAP/BOOST yoi are using !!! Just changing from STOCK COP's to HIGH-OUTPUT COP's will not give you any more HP !!!

AMB

I appreciate that AMB. But what you and nearly everyone on the board needs to realize is that I don't know you any better than I know Granatelli. Having done the search and tried to understand if this purchase was worth it or not really didn't provide me with anyone offering any actual results. Most threads offer up opinions and like fingers, everyone seems to have more than one.

With that said, I had a problem, appeared to be coil related, with stock coils running in the neighborhood of $90 ea, why not replace all of them for half the price? Having done that, I can now offer up actual results to everyone. I'm not happy that I didn't get any hp gains, but it didn't hurt my car and I'm happy that I can contribute my lesson learned to all of the enthusiasts here.

 

[GodStang]

Just FYI stock COPs are $32 shipped new. I just had to replace some.

 

[MYSTCHRM]

i think alot of your problem is the gap even at stock with a pulley and few other basic mods i was at .035 and now with the kb at .031 .042 is way to much

How do you explain that the gapping requirement that Ford gives on the 03/04 Cobra is .042 to .046? I'm not saying you are wrong, but that is what Ford calls for. Granatelli says that you can open the gap up as wide as another .007 with the use of their coils. Now the fact I didn't get any hp gain makes me wonder about the gapping, but none the less, it is there.

 

[MYSTCHRM]

Just FYI stock COPs are $32 shipped new. I just had to replace some.

From Ford?

 

[Juruense]

I have been playing around with the gap and on my car which is stock I have found .035 to be best. Anything above .040 is not good at all for my car. Going above .044 and spark blowout becomes a big issue...

 

[MYSTCHRM]

Wouldn't a smaller gap produce a smaller spark and inhibit a good burn?

 

[69gt4speed]

Wouldn't a smaller gap produce a smaller spark and inhibit a good burn?

That is the theory since hei came out. Back in the old days (points) we would run .028 gap maybe to .032 gap. That was n/a, no nitrous, no blower and 10.5/1 compression. The problem is boost increases dynamic compression as you increase boost/compression it becomes harder for the spark to jump a set gap. Same using nitrous. Spark blowout is a misfire which then surely is much worse for the engine, engine emissions and power, like the old days pull off a wire same effect. So you have to close the gap depending on boost, nitrous, type of plugs till it stops misfiring at wot load. It is a catch 22. All high compression, high boost, nitrous engines have the same issues.

A elect. problem imo is the cop size has to be small to fit under covers. A little magnetic core is not too good. The real racers are using a dedicated ecu with a coil driver and big coils. Remember the s/c was a svt after thought, they never upgraded the ignition system for 8# boost.

So that brings me to the new option, Accel has new cop super coils adv. in new jegs. I might trust them more than g or x and 32 bucks apiece. Been around building coils for yrs. Racers have been trying stuff for yrs, plugs, coils, etc.

 

[John at J&S]

Are there any published specs on the coil, so we can calculate the energy stored in the coil?

Energy = (L x I x I)/2

L is the inductance of the coil primary and I is the primary current flowing at spark time.

Note that energy stored in the coil increases with the square of the current.

Coil current is affected by dwell time, primary resistnce and inductance, and voltage supplied to the coil positive.

An easy way to increase coil current is to raise the voltage to the coil positive, such as with a KB Boost A Spark or Jacobs Accuvolt, etc.

Coil current can be measured fairly easily in a given installation. I inserted a 0.1 ohm 5W resistor in the coil positive wire, and measured the voltage drop with an oscilloscope during the dwell period.

My measurement on a stock 6 cylinder Expedition showed about 6 amps peak current was achieved with 1.8msec dwell.

A more accurate technique would use a clamp on current probe, since the 0.1 ohm resistor decreases the coil primary voltage by about 0.6v, but it's good enough to make a comparison from one coil to another.

Another indication of spark energy is the arc time, which can be seen with an oscilloscope. Scroll to page 8 of the pdf:
http://www.autonerdz.com/downloads/copman.pdf

The vendor mentioned several times on another forum that they were patented. Anyone know the number? Patents can be read online at uspto.gov, then search by patent number.