Ford Diesel Plans

[DHG1078]

So with the announcement that Ford will be putting a diesel in the F-150, part of their best selling product line, is this an indication that Ford is ready to start adding small diesel engines across the product lineup? Possibly starting in the largest/heaviest/worst mpg vehicles and slowly rolling them out to mid size sedans and then small cars?

Is the american market ready for manufactures to offer diesel options?

Diesels do have an initial upcharge over gas engines, and typically cost more to maintain, but have a big mpg advantage (read great for CAFE fleet averages) and can last much longer than the gas engine options. Diesel fuel isn't always more expensive than gas engines.

 

[DHG1078]

It seems like they already have new small diesels that could work in passenger cars and meet emissions requirements.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ine-is-diesel-game-changer--cleaner--mor.html

 

[SID297]

VW really hurt diesel's reputation in the eyes of the manufacturers. I do t think the general public cares as much as they think they do. However, EPA scrutiny has def been ratcheted up because of it.

I would expect the next Ford to get a diesel would be the new Expedition. It's going to be on a modified F-150 platform. I suspect it will all hinge on how the 3.0 PSD sales in the F-150.

I would love to see them bring the diesel Focus ST here from Europe. To me that makes the most sense to experiment with. The demographic is more affluent, younger, and educated. A lot of them are used as fun commuter cars. Potential buyers could easily be swayed into it with a little coaching on the benefits of a modern diesel.

One thing Ford and the other manufactures should push for is for the EPA to crank up the requirements on the quality of diesel fuel. What's available at the pump in most of the country is garbage. CA actually has the best fuel because of CARB regs. Higher quality fuel would require less after-treatment and could bring down the cost of the diesel powertrain option.


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[DHG1078]

One thing Ford and the other manufactures should push for is for the EPA to crank up the requirements on the quality of diesel fuel. What's available at the pump in most of the country is garbage. CA actually has the best fuel because of CARB regs. Higher quality fuel would require less after-treatment and could bring down the cost of the diesel powertrain option.


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Interesting tid bit about the quality of diesel fuel. I had no idea.

Most people I have talked to about diesel engines (obviously a small sample of people) either think they are the same as diesels from the 60's where they are smelly, slow, and spew black smoke. Or everyone who has a diesel is a "coal rolling douchebag."

It seems there is a lot of misinformation in the general public.

 

[DHG1078]

I like that audi put diesel in their SUV's. For a large family hauling, grocery getter it makes a ton of sense.

I think the diesel Q7 gets 50% better mpg than my NA 3.5 explorer.

 

[AustinSN]

I had no idea either about the diesel fuel quality.

Also, I'm afraid Ford may not sell enough small cars for it to be worth it. We have seen a drop in small car sales due to low fuel prices, not sure if Ford would go in that direction.

 

[AustinSN]

I like that audi put diesel in their SUV's. For a large family hauling, grocery getter it makes a ton of sense.

I think the diesel Q7 gets 50% better mpg than my NA 3.5 explorer.

Lol I was just wondering if Ford plans to stuff the 3.0 psd into the Explorer.

 

[DHG1078]

I had no idea either about the diesel fuel quality.

Also, I'm afraid Ford may not sell enough small cars for it to be worth it. We have seen a drop in small car sales due to low fuel prices, not sure if Ford would go in that direction.

Small car sales will pick up, but they don't have the profit margins of the trucks and suvs. OPEC has agreed to stop flooding the market to lower oil prices, so gas prices will be on the rise again.

Ford sells close to 200k Focus, 60k Fiesta, and 300k fusions. These vehicles have big CAFE requirements to meet coming up in the not so distant future.

Lol I was just wondering if Ford plans to stuff the 3.0 psd into the Explorer.

Maybe not the 3.0, but a small 4 cyl. diesel would be a welcome addition in my mind.

 

[DHG1078]

If diesel fuel quality varies enough between locations that it has a significant impact on emissions, fuel mileage, and emissions equipment cost and complexity, why hasn't this been changed yet? Especially with the huge number of trucks, tractors, and construction equipment that runs on diesel?

Assuming it doesn't add a significant amount of cost to diesel to match CA quality. Diesel is usually pretty close to gas pricing out here.

 

[SID297]

Ford already builds some world class diesels in Europe. It would be nice to see a few pop up here. It's just difficult to make financial sense of it all on low volume low margin small cars in the US.

It would be nice if the US and EU would homogenize pollution emissions levels regs so the same systems/hardware could be used in both markets. I don't want their CO2 regs though.


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[svtfocus2cobra]

Chevy is putting out a new Cruze hatchback with the diesel option and they are saying as high as 50mpg with it. The success of that vehicle should be a good gauge of whether a diesel Focus or Fusion would be a good idea for Ford.

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[mc01svt]

So with the announcement that Ford will be putting a diesel in the F-150, part of their best selling product line, is this an indication that Ford is ready to start adding small diesel engines across the product lineup? Possibly starting in the largest/heaviest/worst mpg vehicles and slowly rolling them out to mid size sedans and then small cars?

Is the american market ready for manufactures to offer diesel options?

In short no, diesels wont make economic sense for US small cars until there is a significant relaxation of the EPA requirements for NOx and particulate matter emissions. Navistar/International and VW attempted to skirt the law and to put it lightly it didnt end well for either

Diesels do have an initial upcharge over gas engines
, and typically cost more to maintain

Higher cost of entry plus higher ownership cost doesnt make sense for economy car buyers.

but have a big mpg advantage (read great for CAFE fleet averages) and can last much longer than the gas engine options.

not true anymore with so many hybrids and plug-ins on the market. Customers are reporting 130mpg real world with the new chevy volt, plus you typically get a tax credit for purchasing one.

Diesel fuel isn't always more expensive than gas engines.

its almost always more expensive and has been for over a decade now. Not to mention most new diesels have a second tank for adblue DEF fluid, which is about 9 bucks per gallon.

 

[Steve@TF]

I like that audi put diesel in their SUV's. For a large family hauling, grocery getter it makes a ton of sense.

I think the diesel Q7 gets 50% better mpg than my NA 3.5 explorer.

as did porsche cayenne, mercedes and bmw (iirc). i believe the mercedes "bluetec" engine option was like $10k more than the base engine. unless you're going to do a ton of driving or pull a heavy trailer i dont think the $10k would outweigh the savings in fuel costs. let alone maintenance.

and i dont think ive ever seen any mercedes suv pulling any trailers lol. let alone something big and heavy. and their suvs are all over the place out here.

 

[Steve@TF]

its almost always more expensive and has been for over a decade now. Not to mention most new diesels have a second tank for adblue DEF fluid, which is about 9 bucks per gallon.

when gas was almost $5 per gallon here diesel was significantly cheaper. its about the same price as regular gas right now (midgrade).

 

[DHG1078]

as did porsche cayenne, mercedes and bmw (iirc). i believe the mercedes "bluetec" engine option was like $10k more than the base engine. unless you're going to do a ton of driving or pull a heavy trailer i dont think the $10k would outweigh the savings in fuel costs. let alone maintenance.

and i dont think ive ever seen any mercedes suv pulling any trailers lol. let alone something big and heavy. and their suvs are all over the place out here.

My 6 year old Focus (bought in feb. 2010) has 152k miles on it. Roughly 25k a year.

My wife drives her car slightly less, but we take her car on several trips every year. Although for at least the next few months she will be driving more than I do.

I haven't done the math, but I think it would prove to be a viable option for us, currently.

 

[Robert Francis]

Around here in southeast Michigan, I cant remember when diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline. If you're interested in saving "fuel costs" when buying a diesel, considering the extra initial cost and usually higher maint costs for the diesel, even though the mpg may be higher, you're probably going to have to keep this vehicle for many years and put a lot of miles on it to finally start saving money over the comparable gas vehicle. And many people are not willing to do this.

 

[DHG1078]

Around here in southeast Michigan, I cant remember when diesel fuel was cheaper than gasoline. If you're interested in saving "fuel costs" when buying a diesel, considering the extra initial cost and usually higher maint costs for the diesel, even though the mpg may be higher, you're probably going to have to keep this vehicle for many years and put a lot of miles on it to finally start saving money over the comparable gas vehicle. And many people are not willing to do this.

I agree, if you change cars every few years, it's not worth it. My family keeps cars for much longer than most. And we drive a shit ton. It would pay off for us especially since diesel is usually fairly close to gasoline prices