Ford 5.3 big bore stroker

[SlowSVT]

Are you referring to under 25psi?

I was referring to the Boss stroker as delivered. More like 8-10 psi (I think it equates to about 10:1 CR with 10cc dished slugs) on pump gas.

Pure speculation on my part. I'm curious what the piston crown looks like with all those clearance notches (best not to have any).

 

[stangfreak]

I'm not sure if Ed is addressing this shortblock directly it appears to be a general statement and not directely related to this assembly. According to the web site the crank and rods are sourced from Eagal which is an engine re-manufacturer and produce their own rods and cranks and the pistons are from Hahle. Me thinks the Boss block is sourced from Ford (mine was cast at the Cleveland plant), the rods directly from Eagal and the crank is an "in-house" reworked stroked used factory crank. I don't think there is a great demand to justify tooling up for a stroker mod motor crank even in China.

Would Ford sell a shortblock thru it distribution sourced from a Chinese manufacturer with quality control as spotty as stated in the above post? OEM's usually have pretty high standards with regard to suppliers and quality control. Would Ford be OK using a supplier with such lacks quality control as stated and covering such an expensive assembly with a warrantee?

Next time I talk to Ed I'm going to press him on some of his assertions. I'm surprised he was advocating O-ringing a Boss block you will ruin the block attempting to cut a O-ring groove on such a small land between the bores. I agree with the statement about the risks of using pistons clearanced for 2, 3 and 4V applications those extra pockets are an unwanted sources of failure in an FI applications. CAT600 is boosting a Boss block to 25 psi with no issue but something tells me he is near the limit.

I think the best direction is to just get the Boss block, use the factory crank and H-beam rods and install purpose built pistons. This engine is probably best suited for a low boost mild Terminator build.

yea ill see if I can get ed to chime in on his post. I know juiced46 had an issue with his frpp block.

come to think of it, my buddy aj with the twin turbo comp orange cobra ran a boss block. He was pushing 25lbs and his car ran 8's all day. Never had any issues with the boss block. what are your thoughts on the 323 aluminum motors that livernois mentiones? sleeved blocks under boost

 

[01yellercobra]

yea ill see if I can get ed to chime in on his post. I know juiced46 had an issue with his frpp block.

come to think of it, my buddy aj with the twin turbo comp orange cobra ran a boss block. He was pushing 25lbs and his car ran 8's all day. Never had any issues with the boss block. what are your thoughts on the 323 aluminum motors that livernois mentiones? sleeved blocks under boost

I had a resleeved Teksid first. As long as the machining is done properly the aluminum should be ok. We ended up finding cracks in mine and we think it was the machining. Granted that block went through a lot before I got it.

I picked up an iron Boss block because I couldn't afford the aluminum version. That lived on pump gas and 91 octane. The most boost it saw was 19psi. I never had head gasket issues with the iron block. I'm hoping to re-use that shortblock in my 04 at some point.

 

[stangfreak]

I had a resleeved Teksid first. As long as the machining is done properly the aluminum should be ok. We ended up finding cracks in mine and we think it was the machining. Granted that block went through a lot before I got it.

I picked up an iron Boss block because I couldn't afford the aluminum version. That lived on pump gas and 91 octane. The most boost it saw was 19psi. I never had head gasket issues with the iron block. I'm hoping to re-use that shortblock in my 04 at some point.

I'm starting to gather lots of info bc I really want a built motor and change my setup. I was one of those people that got stuck in that cycle of buying one blower, then buy the next size up, sell and buy the next size. Each time thinking I'll make huge power lol. I want to build something different.

 

[fr03cobra]

I have the same block just not the eagle crank. I have the mmr stroker crank to 5.3.

 

[01yellercobra]

I'm starting to gather lots of info bc I really want a built motor and change my setup. I was one of those people that got stuck in that cycle of buying one blower, then buy the next size up, sell and buy the next size. Each time thinking I'll make huge power lol. I want to build something different.

I've always said there's no replacement for displacement. That's why I went with the 5.3.

 

[stangfreak]

I've always said there's no replacement for displacement. That's why I went with the 5.3.

yep. That is why I am leaning toward the 5.3. I see you ran a F1A. Today at work I was thinking, vortech ysi, built 5.3 with a freddy brown 4r70w. Hpp upper manifold and sullivan lower.

 

[SlowSVT]

yea ill see if I can get ed to chime in on his post. I know juiced46 had an issue with his frpp block.

come to think of it, my buddy aj with the twin turbo comp orange cobra ran a boss block. He was pushing 25lbs and his car ran 8's all day. Never had any issues with the boss block. what are your thoughts on the 323 aluminum motors that livernois mentiones? sleeved blocks under boost

Good luck getting Ed in here. I would have to insult him pretty badly on this site and in a very public manner even then that would likely result in a phone call filled with hurtful words :nonono:

For a mild FI street car built for longevity I don't think you will find a better block for a 4.6 than a Boss. The improved cap register, solid bearing bulkheads (not webbed), siamesed bores and higher grade alloy make for a rock solid foundation for any 4.6 with durability in mind. The problem is iron has very little sense of humor to movement and will crack if provoked. But the beauty of that is the stuff hardly moves under both mechanical AND thermal load which holds everything in alignment spinning inside better. That linebore you thought was within .0005 ain't there at 900 hp. Aluminum on the other hand is more like a rubber band and can (and will) flex a lot more before it yields which is why you don't run extreme power levels with an iron block....... the extra 24 cubes don't hurt either if your making 1.5 hp per cube you can add that to the math plus you can unshroud the valves for better breathing. From experience I would not be surprised to find a well cared for 650 hp Boss block with 100K on the clock can get way with a just flexi-hone scratched cylinders and no machining at rebuild time. I know I'm not saying anything here you don't already know, this was more for any hapless nube who stumbles onto the paragraph and makes for good dialog.

I know nothing of Livernois 232 but have heard nothing but good things about the company. Any stroked 4.6 will have longevity problems regardless of who builds it there is no getting away from it a PhD will lose that argument. I can't see the logic of compromising the dynamics of this engine to gain another 20 cubes. Funny thing is a stock stroke 3.7" bore engine is the only undersquare mod motor on the planet! Undersquare is always better then oversquare I always say.

 

[01yellercobra]

yep. That is why I am leaning toward the 5.3. I see you ran a F1A. Today at work I was thinking, vortech ysi, built 5.3 with a freddy brown 4r70w. Hpp upper manifold and sullivan lower.

I wanted to make up for the "lack" of boost centris are known for. I had a D1 first and at 12psi that dyno graph looked like a PD set up. The torque curve was nice and flat. I was looking at swapping to a Sully, but I was having dreams of 1000hp at that point. I never made it.

 

[stangfreak]

Good luck getting Ed in here. I would have to insult him pretty badly on this site and in a very public manner even then that would likely result in a phone call filled with hurtful words :nonono:

For a mild FI street car built for longevity I don't think you will find a better block for a 4.6 than a Boss. The improved cap register, solid bearing bulkheads (not webbed), siamesed bores and higher grade alloy make for a rock solid foundation for any 4.6 with durability in mind. The problem is iron has very little sense of humor to movement and will crack if provoked. But the beauty of that is the stuff hardly moves under both mechanical AND thermal load which holds everything in alignment spinning inside better. That linebore you thought was within .0005 ain't there at 900 hp. Aluminum on the other hand is more like a rubber band and can (and will) flex a lot more before it yields which is why you don't run extreme power levels with an iron block....... the extra 24 cubes don't hurt either if your making 1.5 hp per cube you can add that to the math plus you can unshroud the valves for better breathing. From experience I would not be surprised to find a well cared for 650 hp Boss block with 100K on the clock can get way with a just flexi-hone scratched cylinders and no machining at rebuild time. I know I'm not saying anything here you don't already know, this was more for any hapless nube who stumbles onto the paragraph and makes for good dialog.

I know nothing of Livernois 232 but have heard nothing but good things about the company. Any stroked 4.6 will have longevity problems regardless of who builds it there is no getting away from it a PhD will lose that argument. I can't see the logic of compromising the dynamics of this engine to gain another 20 cubes. Funny thing is a stock stroke 3.7" bore engine is the only undersquare mod motor on the planet! Undersquare is always better then oversquare I always say.

Lmao. Eds one hell of a guy. That was good info you gave. I know I heard in the past that stroker motors aren't the greatest builds. Just like you said, how long will they last. Of course more cubic inches would be nice. We are just limited. And doing 5.4 swaps IMO is a lot of work.

 

[SlowSVT]

Lmao. Eds one hell of a guy. That was good info you gave. I know I heard in the past that stroker motors aren't the greatest builds. Just like you said, how long will they last. Of course more cubic inches would be nice. We are just limited. And doing 5.4 swaps IMO is a lot of work.

Ed to me is more like a: "Ford Technical Service manual or the "Dear Abby" of reciprocating combustion engines" with legs. I occasionally catch him on an technical snafu or a philosophical blunder more commonly but other than that he's a pretty sharp guy. I talked to him regarding his post on the origins of the 5.3 Boss based long block from Ford which appears to have legitimacy though the extent of the quality issues associated with it is not what one would expect from an OEM. As Ed put it: "the 5.3 LB is not sourced from a tier 1 supplier".

I think for a "no holds barred" mod motor a stock stroke and bore 4.6 is the way to go. The Boss block is good for a moderately boosted street motor or weekend racer, a stroker if want the most displacement out of the engine where longevity is a secondary consideration.......nothing wrong with that if you are willing to accept a few compromises along the way I've never heard of a mod motor stroker living much past 50K miles before the piston skirts start showing the side effects of getting pulled so far out the bottom of the bore.

Ed and I tossed around the idea of installing a 4.6 crank in a 5.4 block with longer con rods which would make for a bottom end that could be revved to the moon. Kellogg actually listed a de-stroked crank which could take the engine well past 10K rpm but they never actually made one and for obvious reasons......... if we only had the time and resources to play all those games *sigh* :nonono:

 

[SID297]

Sounds like a fun experiment for someone with a CNC machine in their basement.

 

[stangfreak]

Ed to me is more like a: "Ford Technical Service manual or the "Dear Abby" of reciprocating combustion engines" with legs. I occasionally catch him on an technical snafu or a philosophical blunder more commonly but other than that he's a pretty sharp guy. I talked to him regarding his post on the origins of the 5.3 Boss based long block from Ford which appears to have legitimacy though the extent of the quality issues associated with it is not what one would expect from an OEM. As Ed put it: "the 5.3 LB is not sourced from a tier 1 supplier".

I think for a "no holds barred" mod motor a stock stroke and bore 4.6 is the way to go. The Boss block is good for a moderately boosted street motor or weekend racer, a stroker if want the most displacement out of the engine where longevity is a secondary consideration.......nothing wrong with that if you are willing to accept a few compromises along the way I've never heard of a mod motor stroker living much past 50K miles before the piston skirts start showing the side effects of getting pulled so far out the bottom of the bore.

Ed and I tossed around the idea of installing a 4.6 crank in a 5.4 block with longer con rods which would make for a bottom end that could be revved to the moon. Kellogg actually listed a de-stroked crank which could take the engine well past 10K rpm but they never actually made one and for obvious reasons......... if we only had the time and resources to play all those games *sigh* :nonono:

Didn't a member on here try to destroke a 5.4? I remember that floating around. My tuner told me the same thing. a built 4.6 motor stock bore and and stroke will be strong and reliable.

 

[Juiced46]

I am going to copy and paste what I posted from the other site so the info is on both. Like I mentioned in the below quote, the pistons are the weak link. The ringland where the valve relief is cut into is very very thin. If this shortblock came with a better suited piston it would be a much better buy. You are better off building one with better internals for roughly the same cost.


"Ken, I would explore other options. I had some issues with FRPPs 5.0 shortblock which looks to use the same exact piston as this 5.3L. The pistons are very thin on the top ringland where they cut the valve relief into it. It is only about .090" thick in that spot. On a 500rwhp Procharged Mach1 I installed this engine in, it broke the ringland clean off on the very first dyno pull. Ford was good at honoring their warranty and paid to have it sent back to them, fixed it and sent it back on their dime. They covered a portion of the labor. When we got the engine back, they installed all of the pistons backwards. The valve reliefs should be on the exhaust side, they were all on the intake side. Also, Ford does not build these engines, they have them built by an engine shop somewhere in Michigan. The whole experience with the 5.0L Alum stroker left a bad impression for me, especially the quality we saw when we got it back for the 2nd time. The engine is back in and running in the Mach1, but I think it is a ticking time bomb. The price is very appealing, but I think there are better options out there. Here is a picture of the piston when it broke. Look how small the ringland is where the valve relief is cut. It is a weak link for sure. Like Ed mentioned. It is a 1 size fits all engine for all applications. I would look into the Gibtec pistons and build a shortblock with those. It is a little more work, but the quality and piece of mind is well worth it."

When we got it back, the reliefs were on the wrong side. They switched the banks that the pistons should have went into

 

[Blkkbgt]

I know nothing of Livernois 232 but have heard nothing but good things about the company. Any stroked 4.6 will have longevity problems regardless of who builds it there is no getting away from it a PhD will lose that argument. I can't see the logic of compromising the dynamics of this engine to gain another 20 cubes. Funny thing is a stock stroke 3.7" bore engine is the only undersquare mod motor on the planet! Undersquare is always better then oversquare I always say.

What exactly is the longevity issue caused by? Is it the piston being able to rock slightly in the bore as it reaches BDC due to the increased stroke?

The reason I ask is that I have seriously considered ditching my KB setup for a NA 5.3 stroker with tfs heads. I considered doing the same with a 5.4 but the lack of intake manifold options for the 5.4 with 2v heads stopped me. No sense in building something that can't breathe.

 

[Chris Noell]

So, obviously no one has been one this post for a long ass time. Lol. I bought a Boss Big Bore block and had it built. I beams, Diamond flat top pistons with 4v reliefs, file fit steal rings, upgraded wristpins, pretty aggressive Comp cams and topping it with a TVS 2.3.
Car made 611/592 @ 17 psi on Stock 4.6 Aluminator. Not sure what it’ll do now but I’m trying to send it to the moon. I ran across a guy who had the stock Boss 5.3 Stroker with stock cams, 21psi and a 150 shot that was running 8.40’s. I’m hoping to get around 900hp out of it on e85 and 25psi. I guess we’ll see next month. Does anyone have any updates on what they’ve done or seen lately?

 

[JetmechF16]

I've had a 5.3 Boss motor sitting in my car for over a year now, haven't finished the build yet. Just ordered the intercooler, all that's left is a bov, intake tube fabbing, and tuning. Been a slowww process but hoping to have it done in a month or two. Plan is ~25 psi from an F-1A-94 and e85 with stock heads, cams, Sullivan lower, HPP upper. We'll see what it makes.

 

[01yellercobra]

FWIW I had a Boss block 323 in my 01. Stock 03 heads, Ford GT cams, stock 01 intake, 9.5:1 compression, and full exhaust. It made 496/469 on a Mustang dyno. That was with a D1 at 12psi and 12 or 13 degrees of timing. They same engine put down 326rwhp in N/A form on RET's dyno.

I still have the shortblock for future use with a Whipple 2.9.

 

[Corbic]

Are these Iron Boss blocks really $2,000 better then a factory iron block?

 

[01yellercobra]

Are these Iron Boss blocks really $2,000 better then a factory iron block?

Are they really that much now? I got mine for $1000. Granted that was back in 2010ish.

I think the extra cubes and unshrouding the valves is worth it. But really plenty of people make power with stock or aluminum blocks. Pick your poison.