Was the knock sensors turned off in the tune. I know the 03-04 Cobra's don't have knock sensors, because the eaton was sending false signals causing the knock sensors to knock off timing, so ford didn't use it.
Dyno Numbers with Eaton!
- Thread starter 99riocobra
- Start date
thanks! i got the 03 harness with my 03 alternator from the guy with the 03. he left about 4" of wire on their for me to connect my stock wires to the 03 harness. real simple! :thumbsup:Hmbre97 said:
they were supposed to be turned off. that is being worked out. (see the above posts)01trublue cobra said:
03Steve:
yes, i am using the 3psi switch for the BAP. i debated on wiring it full time, but i didn't want my pump life to be shot. i know it's not supposed to affect that, but pushing that much more current through it has to do something. anyway, from my research, 30psi at idle was completely normal. and from what i could see in Double"O" 's recent vid, his fuel pressure does exactly what mine does. could the code be thrown due to the increase in pressure in the mid range? i have never heard of this 40psi thing at all times. thanks for any help you can provide!
wow, awsome numbers on the stock block! I dare to say these are the highest i've ever seen on a stock block 99-01!
On the knock sensor subject, I thought they had to be removed and the bosses for them cut down in order for a eaton to fit? I know for a fact the kb requires this.
On the knock sensor subject, I thought they had to be removed and the bosses for them cut down in order for a eaton to fit? I know for a fact the kb requires this.
99riocobra said:
Set your BAP to 30% or greater. Preferably 50%. Put the car in fifth gear on the highway at 50mph. Give it about 1/2 throttle, just to where you see about 3 psi or more on your boost gauge. Note what the car does.
BTW - if that pressure switch fails (they do), you are now on a unboosted stock pump with your Eaton. I continuously pegged that stock pump N/A on my 99.
The fuel pump will not fail from excessive current with the BAP on full time. Running all time prevents a significant fuel pressure spike from activation (see 5th gear scenario above), and eliminates the 3psi switch that has been known to fail.
99riocobra said:
All Ford fuel injectors are rated with respect to 40psi of fuel pressure, because this is what fuel pressure is from the factory. Check it on any stock car. The fuel injector high slope, low slope, breakpoint, and mulitplier are all centralized around 40 psi of fuel pressure.
I'm not saying your car will not run correctly with 30 psi at idle, and 50+ psi under WOT. But if you look at the description of the P190 code (low input) and the conditions that will throw the code with your stock ZMR2 processor settings (fuel pressure at 28 psi or less for 8 seconds), you have to think the 30 psi fuel pressure at idle and the P190 code go hand in hand.
Curious...do you have a chip or an XCal2?
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thanks! and yes, that was all done. it was a bitch!cyac5l8trfcar said:
03Steve:
so maybe full time wiring is the way to go. i'm glad i wasted all of that time running that wiring and vacuum configuring for it. so what makes my fuel pressure 30psi at idle then. will this rewiring take care of it? from what i researched, 30psi at idle was normal. so when that's what my gauge read, i figured i was good. thanks!
99riocobra said:
I hear ya dude, I did the same thing with the BAP on my 03 Cobra back in 2003. I would give it a little gas in 6th gear on the highway, and the switch would kick on...delievering the extra voltage from the BAP to the pumps.
Fuel pressure would go from 40 psi, to 74psi from the sudden extra BAP voltage. EEC would attempt to stabilize, bringing the FPDM duty cycle down rapidly. Fuel pressure then goes from 74psi to less than 15 psi. Eventually, it would stabilize back to 40psi. But the car would severely fall on its face while all this was going on.
99riocobra said:
Rewiring won't effect the fuel pressure at idle. Commanded fuel pressure is generated by the EEC. If your fuel pressure gauge is 100% accurate, the tuner is telling the car to use 30psi of fuel pressure at idle.
Curious...are you familiar with the FPDM, and the effects fuel pump duty cycle in the returnless fuel system?
so i guess my question then becomes what do i have to do to get my car to stop throwing this p0190 code? is it the idle psi? is it the 60psi spike at initial wot? i don't get why everyone says that 30spi is normal at idle, but you say it should be 40psi (just curious)? also, will i need a re-tune if i rewire my bap? will it affect my AF ratio at all?03Steve said:
honestly, no.03Steve said:
thanks fo all your help!
I'll stop crapping your thread with these topics Nick. We should be congratulating you and Steggy on a job well done! Not picking apart minor details such as check engine lights and fuel pressure readings.
Shoot me a PM sometime. I'd really like to see your conversion, as I am slowing building an 03 Cobra clone for the WFC 10 Cobra Eliminator class.
Shoot me a PM sometime. I'd really like to see your conversion, as I am slowing building an 03 Cobra clone for the WFC 10 Cobra Eliminator class.
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yea, good call. i'll get going on my research and pm you as needed. we'll have to meet up some time. thanks for your help though for sure!
i had issues with my knock sensors after the KB install....they were relocated and were close the blower and man you wanna talk about sing when i got into boost...they went crazy from the vibes fron the blower...i had mine Detuned to setting 1 so they are still functional.
wow. i didn't know you could make them still somewhat functional....
also, did you have any issues w/ your fuel pressure sensor? doesn't you pressure go up to around 60 at initial wot? is it at 30 at idle too?
also, did you have any issues w/ your fuel pressure sensor? doesn't you pressure go up to around 60 at initial wot? is it at 30 at idle too?
that's what i thought. from what it seems like, wiring it full time takes care of the 60psi spike. but i just don't want to screw anything up in mytune by changing it to that. everything runs fine, it's just this stupid code! :bash:
Nice
I would actually like to hear/read it.03Steve said:
If one can get rid of the knock sensors on a built motor with Eaton, can one get away with doing likewise on a stock motor procharged (P1SC-8psi)? Advantages and disadvantages of keeping or getting rid of them would be?
First off, the 03/04 Cobras and all Eaton-powered Lightnings do not use knock sensors.
The knock sensors on 99/01 Cobras and 03/04 Mach1s (FOCK Detroit just homered) are notorious for falsely activating. Wheel hop, shifting, sneezing, etc all contribute to false triggering of the knock sensors.
In stock form on the 99 Cobra strategy, knock sensor activation will cause the EEC to pull 1 degree of timing every 1/4 second. The car will pull up to 6 degrees of timing max. And it doesn't put the timing back right away.
The sensitivity of the knock sensors, the rate at which timing is pulled, how much timing can be pulled, and how quickly it can be put back is all adjustable within the EEC. There is even a feature to ADD timing when the knock sensors are not triggering.
However, since they are proven to falsely activate, and are not used in OEM Eaton-powered combinations...it is best to leave them off IMO.
The knock sensors on 99/01 Cobras and 03/04 Mach1s (FOCK Detroit just homered) are notorious for falsely activating. Wheel hop, shifting, sneezing, etc all contribute to false triggering of the knock sensors.
In stock form on the 99 Cobra strategy, knock sensor activation will cause the EEC to pull 1 degree of timing every 1/4 second. The car will pull up to 6 degrees of timing max. And it doesn't put the timing back right away.
The sensitivity of the knock sensors, the rate at which timing is pulled, how much timing can be pulled, and how quickly it can be put back is all adjustable within the EEC. There is even a feature to ADD timing when the knock sensors are not triggering.
However, since they are proven to falsely activate, and are not used in OEM Eaton-powered combinations...it is best to leave them off IMO.
Thx Steve.
Would it be wise the next time I go to my SCT tuner to suggest to him deactivating the knock sensors on my procharged stock motor?
Can he deactivate them through his computer or how is this done?
Sorry for the noob questions.
Would it be wise the next time I go to my SCT tuner to suggest to him deactivating the knock sensors on my procharged stock motor?
Can he deactivate them through his computer or how is this done?
Sorry for the noob questions.
ex-PJs snake said:
Do you have the ability to log the car? There is a parameter you can check called "Knock Sensor Retard" in the SCT Livelink software.
I would see how much timing the EEC is pulling (if any) as a result of the knock sensors first. From there, you can see if it is worth your time to talk to your tuner
FYI - for my street tunes, I use the knock sensors. For the track tunes, I turn them off to prevent timing retard from false knock sensor activation.
My knock sensors were pulling either 6 or 8 degrees of timing after I installed my Procharger, although there was NO detonation, low timing, and A/F was perfect. I turned them off and the car runs much better and I haven't had any issues. It's just the noise from the blower was giving false signals all the time.
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