Do I have this right? (general mustang suspension thought)

[9746Cobra]

The best paths to improve 94-'04 Mustang suspensions, especially those street driven and tracked:

1. If you don't mind a rough ride and/or don't want to spend lots of money:

Stiffin chassis, proper tires, restrict the suspensions movement via very stiff springs and top quality firm dampers and leave it at that. (Limits dive, roll, bind, but not good for rough pavement)

2. If you have money and time and want it all from your Mustang:

Stiffin chassis, proper tires, replace entire suspension with superior design.

3. If you don't like either of the above options:

Stiffin chassis, proper tires, then improve a few little things to make it more fun for you to drive. (ie, mild springs and dampers, solid rack bushings, sway bars and endlinks, etc)

Is this a good summary? I'm just talking suspension here not track-time, brakes, etc. We all know how important those are.

9746C

 

[wheelhopper]

I think your summaries leave a lot on the table.

I have seen good drivers, with few mods, pass decent drivers with full Griggs suspensions.

With that being said, I am all about modding my ride.

If it was me here is where I would start.

Install sub frame connectors
Install aftermarket controll arms
H&R race springs
Aftermarket struts/shocks
MM aluminum steering rack bushings
CC plates

That should spend about $1500 for you.

 

[David Hester]

for what it is worthover the past 25 years, I've seen things switch from really stiff springs to really stiff swaybars. Certainly a floppy chassis negates any suspension changes. I was behind a really quick car at Nashville Speedway last month. Really stiff suspension. He passed me going into the esses and got a little high on the curb. The whole car was tossed a couple of feet sideways.
different class, but this section
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I agree with Wheelhopper, except I'd start with replacing all rubber bushing with at least urethane, good struts/ shocks, chamber plates (for sure), tires.
From there you could add springs, connectors, etc.

 

[9746Cobra]

More questions about option #1.

I didn't want a kidney killing ride and found a great deal on some Mach one springs. I thought going from 400lb (stock) to 600lbs front and 165?lb to 250?lb rears would keep the body from moving around some but it did not.

Turns out there was very little difference. The body roll isn't real bad, but the brake dive sure is! Plus the car, now only dropped one inch, will bottom out the suspension on big dips. The car rides fine and I could certainly deal with a rougher ride.

All this points to the springs not being stiff enough and stock dampers aren't doing enough either. My goal is keep camber change and rear binding to a minimum.

But how stiff should I go for daily driven plus some track days? Many people seem not to mind say 850lbs front and around 300lbs rear. But what about 950lbs or more? Too much for daily driving?

Of course I'd have to get the proper dampers to match.

 

[9746Cobra]

Just found my old thread asking about the same questions! I'm off to read it again...

 

[mu22stang]

If you are looking into improving your daily driving comfort and on-track performance, you should look into swapping in an IRS. It's all the rage to remove them from '03/'04s for some reason, and you may be able to work out a trade. A '97 with an IRS would be a blast! If I ever grenade my Terminator motor, I'm probably going to an aluminum N/A 4V.

 

[9746Cobra]

If you are looking into improving your daily driving comfort and on-track performance, you should look into swapping in an IRS. It's all the rage to remove them from '03/'04s for some reason, and you may be able to work out a trade. A '97 with an IRS would be a blast! If I ever grenade my Terminator motor, I'm probably going to an aluminum N/A 4V.

No thanks to the IRS. Adds weight (over a hundred pounds if IIRC) and often driveline vib issues. Plus it overheats.

Going back into my old thread, I had just put on the mach one springs. Now after driving on them for awhile I know they are too soft, even on the street, as are my dampers.

I'm thinking 850lbs front at least, and about 300lbs rear. Plus Bilstiens, not sure which yet.

 

[Fastlane Cobra]

Coilovers and IRS - 600LB springs front/400 rear. Remove the rubber from the IRS and steering rack. replace with delrin and aluminum respectively. Add sub frame connectors and now you have a good starting point. I have this setup and a bit more and it is awesome. Great on the street and not overly harsh on bumps. Huge improvement in the handling department.

 

[9746Cobra]

Coilovers and IRS - 600LB springs front/400 rear. Remove the rubber from the IRS and steering rack. replace with delrin and aluminum respectively. Add sub frame connectors and now you have a good starting point. I have this setup and a bit more and it is awesome. Great on the street and not overly harsh on bumps. Huge improvement in the handling department.

Thanks, but my car is a '96. No IRS, already have SFC's.

I'm debating H&R Race springs. (750-850lb) I don't really have to get the rears as the ones I have (250lbs) are very close to the H&R race. (260-280) Or alternatively I could go coil over up front with 350lb springs and leave the rears alone. (250lbs standard type)

 

[gcassidy]

How much do you drive on the road verses track time? Are we talking dailey driver here, or just on a cruise now and then. And what are the roads around you like? Florida has a lot of concrete with expansion joints, right?
Remember, even if you don't mind a jolting ride, some parts of your car may.

 

[9746Cobra]

How much do you drive on the road verses track time? Are we talking dailey driver here, or just on a cruise now and then. And what are the roads around you like? Florida has a lot of concrete with expansion joints, right?
Remember, even if you don't mind a jolting ride, some parts of your car may.

Forgot this thread somehow...

It's a daily driver. Roads are fair to good.

 

[racebronco2]

Coilovers and IRS - 600LB springs front/400 rear. Remove the rubber from the IRS and steering rack. replace with delrin and aluminum respectively. Add sub frame connectors and now you have a good starting point. I have this setup and a bit more and it is awesome. Great on the street and not overly harsh on bumps. Huge improvement in the handling department.

Are your front springs rates coil-overs? 600lb coil-overs would be way to stiff. Stock for the 03/04 are 600's and around 450 for vert and older cobra's.

The rear springs rates are way off for any of the irs's. Stock 03/04 are 600's and the vert and older cobra's are around 450.

I used to have 600 with coil-overs but have changed to 700's.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

If you are retaining the stick axle you might want to look into one of the torque arm rear suspension packages. These are still streetable though some require custom tail pipes or dumps.

Make sure you have done you're homework and have read about what causes under steer and over steer.

If you piece meal the suspension, you will likely need to tune front or rear stiffness to balance in some near neutrality.... IE: mild under steer.

This can be done with either springs or sway bars, stiff springs are harsher on ride than stiff sway bars.

 

[David Hester]

I used a modified Griggs arm on my A-Sedan car. Much better bite and reduced dive. Look for Fred Puhn's How to make your car handle.
Amazon.com: How to Make Your Car Handle (0075478000012): Fred Puhn: Books
Written many years ago (polyester suits and lambchop sideburns), but physics is physics.
You still sound like you want to go down the heavy spring road... which is going to destroy your daily driver and not really help.
As Jimmy mentioned, look at a complete setup and don't try to piece something together not knowing where you are going.
See what I'm driving at....?
(I slay myself sometimes.;^))

 

[Ryan]

I think my lil SVO handles pretty good with what I've done with it. Granted, my first year OT I was on the 23 year old suspension (sssssh). Anyways, I've replaced all the rubber in the suspension with poly urethane. New Konis all around, HR Springs, MM FLSFC, MM Rear Lower control arms, FRPP uppers (reinforced), 96 Cobra Swaybar, MM CC Plates, and I believe thats it. This past year, I've only worked on the driver mod. I think that since my cars drivetrain is relatively stock, I have 'hung' with some 'faster' cars through the twisties....

 

[racebronco2]

I've driven a few fox body's with tq arms from both mm and griggs, a couple of new edge mustangs with either a tq arm or steeda 4 link. Under really hard braking all of them get wheel hop. It can be managed at the track but on the street you never know when some idiot pulls out in front of you and you need to slam on your brakes.

 

[David Hester]

7 years of SCCA racing (40-42 events) with the torque arm and the only time I had trouble with wheel hop was when I messed up matching a downshift. Off backwards at VIR at 140+ and I didn't try that again.
Y'all know there is a river on the other side of the trees outside turn 1 at VIR?

 

[racebronco2]

7 years of SCCA racing (40-42 events) with the torque arm and the only time I had trouble with wheel hop was when I messed up matching a downshift. Off backwards at VIR at 140+ and I didn't try that again.
Y'all know there is a river on the other side of the trees outside turn 1 at VIR?

I bet that was exciting. The couple of cars i drove might not have been set-up correctly. The owners said they never had a problem with wheel hop while braking ..... but i am a late braker. I usually make up a car or two in the braking zones. That being said if my barkes ever do fail i'm up shit creek.

 

[David Hester]

I brake really late, too. I never had any power with the Mustang (compared to the other a/sedan cars), so I could only make up time under braking. Whiff of smoke off the inside wheel was fairly normal. Come to think of it, I still do that. Comes from the days I raced formula cars and was fascinated by the whiff of smoke off the inside wheel. Used it as a barometer on how late I COULD brake. Plus it was neat watching the tire change from shiney down the straights to flat black in the corners and then shiney again as I unwound the wheel. Easily entertained, I guess. :rollseyes