Differences between Full synthetic

[jetmech]

I'm seriously thinking there is no real difference between Walmart brand Full synthetic or Mobil 1 Full synthetic(or other high-end oil brand), except price maybe... I'm getting ready to do oil changes in both my Denali(tow vehicle) and my BMW(family vehicle) and they both take 5w-30 like my Terminator. In my Terminator I use Motorcraft Synthetic blend because it has low miles and that's what it's had since day one with zero problems. My other cars are high mileage and reading the back of the 5qt jugs they both have the same aprovals and ratings so why should I pay $5 more for each jug if they have the same approval ratings? Anxiously awaiting to hear your thoughts.

 

[black4vcobra]

So you know, Unleashed Beast is going to come in here and set you straight.

In a nutshell, not all synthetic oils are created equal. There are high end "true synthetics" (Group IV - IE Amsoil, Royal Purple XPS) and "full synthetics" (Group III, IE - Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, etc) that are inferior to Group IV's. Group IV's offer lower NOACK and retain their viscosity better at all temps.

Even among Group III's, some are far superior to others, see this test chart - March 2013 - Test Results for AP

Some oils have superior additives also.

Side note - if your terminator is driven hard, it deserves better than Motorcraft synthetic blend.

 

[jetmech]

So you know, Unleashed Beast is going to come in here and set you straight.

In a nutshell, not all synthetic oils are created equal. There are high end "true synthetics" (Group IV - IE Amsoil, Royal Purple XPS) and "full synthetics" (Group III, IE - Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, etc) that are inferior to Group IV's. Group IV's offer lower NOACK and retain their viscosity better at all temps.

Even among Group III's, some are far superior to others, see this test chart - March 2013 - Test Results for AP

Some oils have superior additives also.

Side note - if your terminator is driven hard, it deserves better than Motorcraft synthetic blend.

Yeah, I just got done reading his tests done for the shelby with 5w-50. I'd be curious to see if he has tested the Walmart brand full synthetic(super tech).The AP test you highlighted is exactly why I question it. Look at the test results for Walmarts Super tech that is $5 less a 5qt jug than the Mobil 1 and see what I'm talking about. Keep in mind I'm talking about high milage daily driven SUVs not my Terminator. Now that I'm full race with the Terminator I've PM'd him with questions. But My REAL question was for my daily driven vehicles, and if the additional cost of the name brand (Mobil 1, Amsoil ect.) were worth it compaired to the Walmart brand full synthetic oil.So I'd like to hear his thoughts on that. Performance vehicles I understand the importance, but daily driven SUVs I'm not sure.

 

[ZWilson07]

In before it starts all over again.

 

[black4vcobra]

Yeah, I just got done reading his tests done for the shelby with 5w-50. I'd be curious to see if he has tested the Walmart brand full synthetic. Now that I'm full race with the Terminator I've PM'd him with questions. But My REAL question was for my daily driven vehicles, and if the additional cost of the name brand (Mobil 1, Amsoil ect.) were worth it compaired to the Walmart brand full synthetic oil.So I'd like to hear his thoughts on that. Performance vehicles I understand the importance, but daily driven SUVs I'm not sure.

I gotcha. DD's don't really need a synthetic but it doesn't hurt. That test did have the Walmart brand - Petroleum Quality Institute of America

It's NOACK is higher than the average but I'd venture to guess it's still better than most conventional oils and probably performs relatively close to the other mid grade oils.

In before it starts all over again.

Ya, a lot of these threads start as different threads and turn into "what is the best oil" and then into "Amsoil vs Royal Purple"

 

[UnleashedBeast]

OP, there are definitely difference between superior base oils you find in true synthetics, and most cheaper hydrocracked base oils you buy off the shelf. With the exception of Pennzoil Ultra, everything you commonly find will perform about the same.

I've said this before, buying off the shelf, opt for Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 "API SN" in your Terminator. It's using a better base oil called GTL (Gas To Liquid) technology that's superior to cheaper hydrocracked oils. Penn Ultra is also noted to be the best cleaning formulation you can buy in any lubricant. This is a plus for higher mileage cars that may have some buildup deposits over time. *please note that Penn Ultra "API SM" is a different formulation and not GTL base oil*

The only downside to Pennzoil Ultra is the price. Since Walmart stopped buying it after the reformulation to API SN, the only way to find it is at auto part stores like Pep Boys. They are charging $9.xx per quart for it. This is why I sway people to Amsoil on the preferred customer program. All members are able to buy lubricants that are a notch grade above Penn Ultra for only $7.85 per quart, not to mention better oil filters with Nano-Fiber technology.

Ya, a lot of these threads start as different threads and turn into "what is the best oil" and then into "Amsoil vs Royal Purple"

It use to be that, until it was proven that base Royal Purple commonly found at auto parts stores is no longer a true synthetic, and ranks about the same as other off the shelf hydrocraked petroleum like Mobil 1, Castrol, etc.

 

[04SilverSerpent]

I got some Penzoil Ultra from Walmart this past weekend...still pricey though at 7.82 a quart.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I got some Penzoil Ultra from Walmart this past weekend...still pricey though at 7.82 a quart.

You are lucky you got it for that. Pep Boys sells it local for ~$9.xx per quart. Were the quarts you bought API SN or API SM?

I was really lucky. All the local Walmart stores were selling remaining API SN quarts for $4.00 to $5.00 each, depending on store location. I picked up 14 quarts. It could have been 16 quarts, but two of the quarts were API SM. They were left on the shelf.

 

[04SilverSerpent]

Just looked on the back and all were API SN I forgot to look when I bought them because I remember you stating that SM was not as good. Perhaps I should have bought al lthey had...they had another 6 quarts atleast of 5w30 but just 4 of 10w30. How much of a difference on a cold start up is the 5w vs 10w? Is a 10W oil better for a turbo car?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Just looked on the back and all were API SN I forgot to look when I bought them because I remember you stating that SM was not as good. Perhaps I should have bought al lthey had...they had another 6 quarts atleast of 5w30 but just 4 of 10w30. How much of a difference on a cold start up is the 5w vs 10w? Is a 10W oil better for a turbo car?

buy all the API SN you can find on the cheap.

With Ultra, either lubricant will serve you well over 32*F, which is where most Mustang owners drive their car. I'd opt for 5W-30 if you were driving in freezing temps daily, starting the car multiple times.

The difference in NOACK isn't that big of a deal really.

5W-30 = 6.4% (actually tested by 3rd party @ 6.6%)
10W-30 = 4.8%

Ultra 10W-30 has the lowest NOACK I have ever seen on any lubricant's spec sheet. Both formulations will have the same additive package. In my 2014 GT, I have 4 quarts of Ultra 5W-20 and 4 quarts of Ultra 10W-30 mixed. Why not, they were spare on the shelf.

Ultra .PDF

 

[jetmech]

OP, there are definitely difference between superior base oils you find in true synthetics, and most cheaper hydrocracked base oils you buy off the shelf. With the exception of Pennzoil Ultra, everything you commonly find will perform about the same.

I've said this before, buying off the shelf, opt for Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 "API SN" in your Terminator. It's using a better base oil called GTL (Gas To Liquid) technology that's superior to cheaper hydrocracked oils. Penn Ultra is also noted to be the best cleaning formulation you can buy in any lubricant. This is a plus for higher mileage cars that may have some buildup deposits over time. *please note that Penn Ultra "API SM" is a different formulation and not GTL base oil*

The only downside to Pennzoil Ultra is the price. Since Walmart stopped buying it after the reformulation to API SN, the only way to find it is at auto part stores like Pep Boys. They are charging $9.xx per quart for it. This is why I sway people to Amsoil on the preferred customer program. All members are able to buy lubricants that are a notch grade above Penn Ultra for only $7.85 per quart, not to mention better oil filters with Nano-Fiber technology.



It use to be that, until it was proven that base Royal Purple commonly found at auto parts stores is no longer a true synthetic, and ranks about the same as other off the shelf hydrocraked petroleum like Mobil 1, Castrol, etc.

UB, so if I'm reading your response correct.. You are saying among all synthetic oils on the shelf at Walmart(hydrocracked oils) they are all about the same unless I come across Pennzoil Ultra or go to an Auto parts store for Amsoil(true synthetic oil). My next question is If I went with Pennzoil Ultra or Amsoil in my Terminator how many miles should I go before I do an oil change? I would hope this would be more than the conventional 3-5k mile intervals. Also What would be the interval between oil changes in my high mileage SUVs for the hydrocracked oils(mobile 1, SuperTech)?

 

[Mystic03]

bought 7 quarts of 530 HPS for 7.78 a quart! :rockon:

 

[UnleashedBeast]

UB, so if I'm reading your response correct.. You are saying among all synthetic oils on the shelf at Walmart(hydrocracked oils) they are all about the same unless I come across Pennzoil Ultra or go to an Auto parts store for Amsoil(true synthetic oil). My next question is If I went with Pennzoil Ultra or Amsoil in my Terminator how many miles should I go before I do an oil change? I would hope this would be more than the conventional 3-5k mile intervals. Also What would be the interval between oil changes in my high mileage SUVs for the hydrocracked oils(mobile 1, SuperTech)?

All lubricants you have mentioned above are more than capable to exceed the age old 3,000-5,000 oil change interval. The cheaper lubricants will safely make 7,500 miles. Ultra isn't sold as an extended mileage lubricant, but 10,000 miles is safe. Ultra is based on your factory recommendation.

Signature Series is 15,000 miles, or one year, whichever occur first.

bought 7 quarts of 530 HPS for 7.78 a quart! :rockon:

Now that's cheap!

 

[SID297]

Yeah, I just got done reading his tests done for the shelby with 5w-50. I'd be curious to see if he has tested the Walmart brand full synthetic(super tech).The AP test you highlighted is exactly why I question it. Look at the test results for Walmarts Super tech that is $5 less a 5qt jug than the Mobil 1 and see what I'm talking about. Keep in mind I'm talking about high milage daily driven SUVs not my Terminator. Now that I'm full race with the Terminator I've PM'd him with questions. But My REAL question was for my daily driven vehicles, and if the additional cost of the name brand (Mobil 1, Amsoil ect.) were worth it compaired to the Walmart brand full synthetic oil.So I'd like to hear his thoughts on that. Performance vehicles I understand the importance, but daily driven SUVs I'm not sure.

I feel like the Wal-Mart syn has a lot of detergents in it. I used it one time in my old Jeep and it led to a few new oil leaks.

bought 7 quarts of 530 HPS for 7.78 a quart! :rockon:

That's a good price.

 

[omj]

UnleashedBeast--How good is the Platinum line of oil for a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix with 180k miles? I went to Walmart and scored 2 jugs of Ultra 5-30 SN (Cobra use) for 20.xx each and they have plenty of Platinum (SN formula) that I can get for the same price.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

UnleashedBeast--How good is the Platinum line of oil for a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix with 180k miles? I went to Walmart and scored 2 jugs of Ultra 5-30 SN (Cobra use) for 20.xx each and they have plenty of Platinum (SN formula) that I can get for the same price.

Platinum uses a different base oil, however, it's more than adequate for your GP.

Lucky find on Ultra. All of my local Walmart stores have none.

 

[svt 500]

To make sure... is this the correct oil that is so great?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

To make sure... is this the correct oil that is so great?

Correct, that's it.

 

[5.0Flareside]

Local WM just got they're shelves restocked with Pennzoil Ultra SN in 5/20 5/30 10/30 @ $26.97 for a 5 qt jug..

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Local WM just got they're shelves restocked with Pennzoil Ultra SN in 5/20 5/30 10/30 @ $26.97 for a 5 qt jug..

Lucky you!