Defyant Marauder at the track

[BillyGman]

I feel that you guys that have 4.10 and 4.56 gears will be able to definitely run more consistent times as compared to us with stock gears. We will have to have a near perfect run to achieve those times.

Nope....Having taller gears such as 4.10's or 4.56's have nothing to do with consistency. You're simply not going to get a supercharged car to turn times anywhere near as consistent with the stock radials as you would with that same car and drag radials, and if anyone here has used drag radials before on a 12 second car (or faster) at the dragstrip, then they will fully understand what I'm talking about.

Taking a supercharged Marauder on the dragstrip without drag radials is a waste. It's hit or miss even when the track in question is well prepared. You'll still be spinning your stock radials off the line during a big percentage of your passes. And considering the fact that you'll only get three or four passes at many dragstrips each day you go during the summer when it's busy, it isn't even worth going there with standard radial tires. You guys could've ran consistent 13.5's and 13.6's all day long without supercharging your Marauders, and could've done that on 93 octane pump gas alone, and with your presently used stock radials w/out wheel spin off the line. That's what MartyO and I used to do all day at the track with our Marauders before we supercharged them.

So unless you don't ever take your cars to the dragstrip, and you didn't care anything about ET's, then what's the point of supercharging them if you can't even run faster times than guys who haven't even supercharged their Marauders do because you insist on running stock tires that cannot grip the asphalt under such torque? Why did you even bother spending $5K or $6K for supercharger kits if atleast 50% if not 75% of your runs at the track merely yield the same ET's that N/A Marauders yield in 90% of their runs? I mean no offense here, but talk about being in denial. I'm sorry if it feels better to your ears to have someone tell you "congratulations" for running the same ET's with your supercharged Marauders as many guys with N/A Marauders run with their cars, but I respect you guys too much to soft-soap you liike that.

I'm gonna tell it like it is, in hopes that speaking the truth might help you some day. If you get ticked off at me for that, then that's your problem, not mine. But let it be known that despite my outspoken manner here, I'm merely telling you how it is. Whether you choose to recognize or believe the truth in my words is up to you. I've done what I can to help. :-D

 

[bigslim]

I will say that I saw Dave run some consistant 12's with a 12.4 best last year with the Trilogy 1 car on street tires. The first run was a 15.7 because the tires were spinning hard. After Dave learned how to launch it it ran in the 12's. BTW, I got my Nittos on my car now so I should do better than before. Can't wait for Milan during the Dream Cruise week.

 

[bigslim]

Billy, I will say that I ran four runs in the 13.3 areas. I would never have run that in my car before it was supercharged. You cannot say that having a blower is a waste without drag radials. How many non-supercharged MM's you know of would have run 13.3's. Hey sure Barry's would but he has a lot of money in it. I am sure my times will drop into the 12's now with the Nitto's.

 

[BillyGman]

Billy, I will say that I ran four runs in the 13.3 areas. I would never have run that in my car before it was supercharged. You cannot say that having a blower is a waste without drag radials. How many non-supercharged MM's you know of would have run 13.3's. .

Marty and I both ran consitent 13.5's BEFORE supercharging our Marauders. So you spent $6K to run 2 tenths faster in the quartermile??? Not exactly a decent bang for your buck. Atleast not on the dragstrip anyway. I think you've come to your senses by getting the Nitto tires. Forget about Barry, and others who run race gas at the track and therefore have special engine tunes with considerably more ignition timing advance for 100-114 octane gas. That isn't a realistic comparisant at all. I've always run nothing but 93 octane pump gas on and off the track, before and after supercharging my car. How about you?

 

[TooManyFords]

Billy, remember that there are more uses for having a supercharger than just 1/4 mile passes. I may not by slicks or drag radials for mine now either and I still appreciate having that extra kick when I have to pass a slow vehicle out on the two-lane highways. That extra boost makes the car feel like a rocket when passing and it don't get loose out there either.

So when you berrate someone for spending $6K (Trilogy, $5K Procharger) to gain 2 tenths, they gain far more than just 2 tenths. [smile]

Cheers!

John

PS: I'm in the 12's on street tires [wink]

 

[bigslim]

Billy, remember that there are more uses for having a supercharger than just 1/4 mile passes. I may not by slicks or drag radials for mine now either and I still appreciate having that extra kick when I have to pass a slow vehicle out on the two-lane highways. That extra boost makes the car feel like a rocket when passing and it don't get loose out there either.

So when you berrate someone for spending $6K (Trilogy, $5K Procharger) to gain 2 tenths, they gain far more than just 2 tenths. [smile]

Cheers!

John

PS: I'm in the 12's on street tires [wink]

Exactly. I do not plan on running my car at the track all the time, When I do go to the track I only make a couple of passes. I got mine for the "WOW" factor and for the punch on the street.

 

[Tallboy]

Marty and I both ran consitent 13.5's BEFORE supercharging our Marauders. So you spent $6K to run 2 tenths faster in the quartermile??? Not exactly a decent bang for your buck. Atleast not on the dragstrip anyway. I think you've come to your senses by getting the Nitto tires. Forget about Barry, and others who run race gas at the track and therefore have special engine tunes with considerably more ignition timing advance for 100-114 octane gas. That isn't a realistic comparisant at all. I've always run nothing but 93 octane pump gas on and off the track, before and after supercharging my car. How about you?

But what did you do to get into the 13s? My car went from 15.3 to 13.1 in the 1/4 mile after the Trilogy install. It runs consistent 13.1, different drivers on different days, and it'll do it all night long. And, that's on OEM tires inflated to 35 PSI and a full tank of fuel.

 

[BillyGman]

Yeah Chuck, but how many of your runs do you turn a 13.1 second ET? Maybe half of them? You can be well into the 13's on just about every single run with headers, and upgraded exhaust, 4.10 gears, & a 3,000 RPM stall speed with a Stallion Torque converter, and also w/out drag radials. I fully agree and understand what you guys are saying about your car still being two tons of fun on the street w/out drag radials since you've supercharged them. After all, on the street, if you get into a race on an empty wide open highway begining at 40, 50, or 60 MPH, then you can just punch it all at once, and not have to worry about traction loss on the dry pavement with the stock radials, and come out on top. But on the dragstrip races aren't started at 60 MPH, but from a standstill.

That's why I specifically stated that I was talking about ET's at the dragstrip. No offense, but it must be aggrivating when you know that you can turn an ET well into the 12 second bracket with your cars, but a turbocharged four cylinder Honda racing in the other lane at the track crosses the finish line first with a mid 13's run because your car wouldn't hook up, and you turned a pathetic 2.1 second 60' time that stock Marauders turn with merely 240 RWHP. oke:

After that happens, then here come the excuses like...."Oh well if I hooked up I would've beat him". And the ricer walks away telling his buddy that he runs faster than a supercharged Marauder did at the track. (I can't help it, but I'm competitve like that). Yeah, yeah, you can come back and say that you're not there to out-do anyone else, but deep down inside that scenario would bug you. A lot of guys on the Marauder board always use sayings like "Good way to REPRESENT" after congratulating a fellow Marauder owner on a good ET. Getting beat by a 4 cylinder ricer or a 4 cylinder Volkswagon GTI which the owner merely put $1,000 into for go-fast parts isn't exactly a good way to "Represent". In that case burnout contests might be a better choice for you.

W/out drag radials I'd just keep my car on the street, and not even bother going to the track, and I only go to the track once or twice per year myself. But with the drag radials, I know that whenever I do go to the track, if other drivers are hooking up, then I'll be hooking up too, and I'll run a low 12 ET on my first run with my foot all the way to the floor as soon as the tree lights green. But to each his own I guess. No offense intended, and thanks for everyone's replies.

 

[The Wraith]

Yeah Chuck, but how many of your runs do you turn a 13.1 second ET? Maybe half of them? You can be well into the 13's on just about every single run with headers, and upgraded exhaust, 4.10 gears, & a 3,000 RPM stall speed with a Stallion Torque converter, and also w/out drag radials. I fully agree and understand what you guys are saying about your car still being two tons of fun on the street w/out drag radials since you've supercharged them. After all, on the street, if you get into a race on an empty wide open highway begining at 40, 50, or 60 MPH, then you can just punch it all at once, and not have to worry about traction loss on the dry pavement with the stock radials, and come out on top. But on the dragstrip races aren't started at 60 MPH, but from a standstill.

That's why I specifically stated that I was talking about ET's at the dragstrip. No offense, but it must be aggrivating when you know that you can turn an ET well into the 12 second bracket with your cars, but a turbocharged four cylinder Honda racing in the other lane at the track crosses the finish line first with a mid 13's run because your car wouldn't hook up, and you turned a pathetic 2.1 second 60' time that stock Marauders turn with merely 240 RWHP. oke:

After that happens, then here come the excuses like...."Oh well if I hooked up I would've beat him". And the ricer walks away telling his buddy that he runs faster than a supercharged Marauder did at the track. (I can't help it, but I'm competitve like that). Yeah, yeah, you can come back and say that you're not there to out-do anyone else, but deep down inside that scenario would bug you. A lot of guys on the Marauder board always use sayings like "Good way to REPRESENT" after congratulating a fellow Marauder owner on a good ET. Getting beat by a 4 cylinder ricer or a 4 cylinder Volkswagon GTI which the owner merely put $1,000 into for go-fast parts isn't exactly a good way to "Represent". In that case burnout contests might be a better choice for you.

W/out drag radials I'd just keep my car on the street, and not even bother going to the track, and I only go to the track once or twice per year myself. But with the drag radials, I know that whenever I do go to the track, if other drivers are hooking up, then I'll be hooking up too, and I'll run a low 12 ET on my first run with my foot all the way to the floor as soon as the tree lights green. But to each his own I guess. No offense intended, and thanks for everyone's replies.

Time for me to get a set as soon as she comes back...What size can be purchased without any modifcation and how wide should the rims be 9.5" or 10"?

WTG Defyant!!! Gotta post those other videos too..

 

[DEFYANT]

Thanks Mark.

Billy,
Although you say your comments are not intended to flame anyone, I get the impression from your recent posts here, that your innuendos are directed at me and my 13.5 pass.

You know what? I honestly don't give a shit. I didnt S/C my Marauder to race it. I would have kept my Cobra (I must have said that 100 times now :nonono: )

I S/Ced my Marauder to enhance the over all driving experiance. Our cars lack(ed) torque. Like the guys above said, there is no doubt on the street with this car now.

I took my car to the track with some buddies from the local Mustang club for some fun. It was the first time I raced and I have not been back since. I may race again... I may not :shrug: . All I know is, this car is alot of fun and I enjoy it with no regrets.

 

[BillyGman]

Thanks Mark.

Billy,
Although you say your comments are not intended to flame anyone, I get the impression from your recent posts here, that your innuendos are directed at me and my 13.5 pass.

You know what? I honestly don't give a shit. I didnt S/C my Marauder to race it. I would have kept my Cobra (I must have said that 100 times now :nonono: )

I S/Ced my Marauder to enhance the over all driving experiance. Our cars lack(ed) torque. Like the guys above said, there is no doubt on the street with this car now.

I took my car to the track with some buddies from the local Mustang club for some fun. It was the first time I raced and I have not been back since. I may race again... I may not :shrug: . All I know is, this car is alot of fun and I enjoy it with no regrets.

Oh, I must have hit a nerve. I wasn't trying to though. Okay then, how's this:

Congratulations on running the same ET with your supercharged Marauder as both Marty's, and my Marauder consistently ran when they were both N/A..(mine on 93 octane pump gas).........and congratulations on running the same 60' times with your supercharged Marauder as my Marauder ran all day long when it was BONE STOCK right down to the rubber, and it was my first time racing any car on the dragstrip ever. How's that feel? Does that sound good? Or does it sound like flowery words, and empty compliments? Which do you prefer, a little truth, or insincere, empty compliments?

If you say you don't give a "****" then you're being insincere, because if you didn't care, then you wouldn't have bothered going out to the track to bring home a timeslip, and you wouldn't have bothered starting a thread about it here. But as you will. It's your car. Just don't say you're content with the same 60' times as some bone stock Marauders turn with novices behind the wheel(like me), because I know that isn't true. Maybe you're trying to convince yourself that it is though. If you lived close by, I'd give you my worn set of drag radials, just so you can see the difference. Oh well.

BTW, I was using your ET as an example since you've started this thread about it. But I know that you have plenty of fun on the street with your car, and that your car is a terror on the street even with the standard radials because I used to run regular radials on the street too. But on the track they're a waste with a supercharged car, unless maybe you had a 4 cylinder supercharged car. Then perhaps you wouldn't need the drag radials for traction at the track. ....Happy motoring.

 

[BillyGman]

Time for me to get a set as soon as she comes back...What size can be purchased without any modifcation and how wide should the rims be 9.5" or 10"?

WTG Defyant!!! Gotta post those other videos too..

Mark, we don't have a lot of choices with these 18" wheels. There are Nitto tire sizes in 18" drag radials that are narrower, and do not need wider rims than our stock 8" ones, but those tires are also much shorter, and wouldn't look very good on the back of the car (if that matters to you...it would to me).

If you want drag radials that are the same height as our factory tires are, then to my knowledge you have to go with the ones I have ( P305/45/18) and for those you have to get the mags widened to 9.5". Lidio can do that for you. That's who did it for me.

 

[Tallboy]

Yeah Chuck, but how many of your runs do you turn a 13.1 second ET? Maybe half of them?

On this point you are 100% correct. Unless I catch everything perfect [good track conditions, perfect launch] half my runs go up in smoke. Either that, or I have to really feather the launch. Your point on drag radials is well taken and good advice. OEM tires at the track are useless IMO also. If you're serious about drag racing, you just gotta have a set of drag radials.

However, I'm not much of a drag racer. Yet. Future plans for this car are widened wheels and drag radials [don't park your car outside next time I'm in Connecticut :-D ] like yours, and probably a smaller pulley. But, that won't happen 'till next year at the earliest. In the mean time, I'll be there to cheer on my faster and more expirienced Marauder brothers at the track, and continue to prowl my favorite playground. The street. :burnout:

P.S. Maybe we could coordinate my next Connecticut trip with a raceday down at Atco?

 

[DEFYANT]

I irony is that I agree with the drag radial / widened rims requirement. Especially on the track. And as I said above, I plan on getting them -see post #16.

I can handle constructive criticism.... in fact I welcome it.
I would rather hear honest opinions as long as it is not designed to stroke you own ego at my expense. And that is how your posts read. Did I read it wrong? My runs down the 1320 do not compare to yours. The only similarity between the two runs is that we drive Trilogy Marauders.

MarauderMark and I were talking at the track that day. We agreed immediatly that drag radials were necessary. All I got at the track with these tires is alot of rubber thrown up on the car!

Billy, I asume your running widend rims and drag radials...did you upgrade your axles too?

Incidently... The numbers you ran stock seem to be an anomaly. I have been watching MM.Net for awhile. Most NA Marauders I've read about turn high 14s or low 15s.

 

[BillyGman]

I can handle constructive criticism.... in fact I welcome it.
I would rather hear honest opinions as long as it is not designed to stroke you own ego at my expense. And that is how your posts read.

Well then I don't think that you're really reading them clearly, because didn't you see that I called myself a "novice" racer? Is that a sign that I'm egotistical as you claim? You have me all wrong my friend. If I was on an ego trip, then I wouldn't be trying to encourage you other supercharged guys to get drag radials, because I'd be glad that you're running in the 13's while my car is consistently in the low 12's with the drag radials. But what I'm trying to convey to you, is that I want more from you guys, because I know that your cars are capable of better ET's. I want to see you guys all in the 12's consistently. I know that your cars can do that. Atleast in the high 12's.

So yes, I think you're reading me all wrong. I know that I can be brutaly outspoken at times, but I believe that while in some cases, it isn't needed, in other cases, it is to grab your attention enough to make you sit up and take notice when it's something that I believe is significant. And consistent 60' times, and therefore good ET's for supercharged Marauders, are simply dependent on the use of drag radials, so this is significant. Really, I mean no offense.Keep in mind that the 03/04 Vette that I just raced the other day would've beaten me had I not had drag radials, and that occured on the street. yes, the 4.56 gears helped me too, but they would've been kinda useless too w/out the drag radials. So there's value in drag radials on the street to to a certain extent (not as significant as on the track though).

As far as your comment about my Marauder being an anomaly when it was stock, you're missing what I stated. My car ran 15.2 ET's when it was stock, but my 60' times were 2.1, and 2.2 seconds just like your 60' times are with your supercharged Marauder. Now doesn't something sound wrong about that? The thing that's wrong is that you're wasting that low-end torque you have with the roots supercharger since you're using the standard radials at the dragstrip, and they're spinning waaaaay too much off the line.

And to answer your question about the axles in my car, they are stock 28 spline axles just like you have, and the transmission is bone stock too.

 

[MarauderTJA]

Nittos

Well then I don't think that you're really reading them clearly, because didn't you see that I called myself a "novice" racer? Is that a sign that I'm egotistical as you claim? You have me all wrong my friend. If I was on an ego trip, then I wouldn't be trying to encourage you other supercharged guys to get drag radials, because I'd be glad that you're running in the 13's while my car is consistently in the low 12's with the drag radials. But what I'm trying to convey to you, is that I want more from you guys, because I know that your cars are capable of better ET's. I want to see you guys all in the 12's consistently. I know that your cars can do that. Atleast in the high 12's.

So yes, I think you're reading me all wrong. I know that I can be brutaly outspoken at times, but I believe that while in some cases, it isn't needed, in other cases, it is to grab your attention enough to make you sit up and take notice when it's something that I believe is significant. And consistent 60' times, and therefore good ET's for supercharged Marauders, are simply dependent on the use of drag radials, so this is significant. Really, I mean no offense.Keep in mind that the 03/04 Vette that I just raced the other day would've beaten me had I not had drag radials, and that occured on the street. yes, the 4.56 gears helped me too, but they would've been kinda useless too w/out the drag radials. So there's value in drag radials on the street to to a certain extent (not as significant as on the track though).

As far as your comment about my Marauder being an anomaly when it was stock, you're missing what I stated. My car ran 15.2 ET's when it was stock, but my 60' times were 2.1, and 2.2 seconds just like your 60' times are with your supercharged Marauder. Now doesn't something sound wrong about that? The thing that's wrong is that you're wasting that low-end torque you have with the roots supercharger since you're using the standard radials at the dragstrip, and they're spinning waaaaay too much off the line.

And to answer your question about the axles in my car, they are stock 28 spline axles just like you have, and the transmission is bone stock too.

Billy, it looks like I am going to purchase a set of Kazera wheels for my car. These wheels have 18 X 9.5 for the rear, to which I am going your route with the Nitto Drag Radials (305 X 45 X 18). I would also like to put Nittos on the front wheels which are 18 X 8.5. Do you have any suggestions for Nitto 555's for the front in the size tires to use that would be compatible with the rears?

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida

 

[tmac1337]

Tom, are you and BillyG still meeting at the track to run your cars this fall?

 

[LRDYGNE]

New Guy

Hi there, I'm new on the scene thought this would be a good place to jump in. I have owned my 2003 Marauder for almost 2 years now and have finally bit the bullet and have decided to purchase the Trilogy charger kit (400 hours to go I am told). Should have took Billy's advice a year ago when I first read it on MM.net, live and learn.

Even though I have not experienced the Trilogy charger first hand I must agree with BillyG. I have 4.10 Gears, PI 3000 Stall, SCT 9100, Steeda UDP's and a K&N FIPK currently and the odd time on some roads I have had her twist a little (not hook up) using the stock BFG's when launching hard (not even at WOT). I have had no experience at the track but consider myself an experienced lead foot :burnout: . Although this is rare on good street conditions ( happened maybe 3-4 times in 2 years and I live for 0-60 ), add 140 RWHP and all I can say is before I hit the track 305 Nittos will be on the rear and Honda's look out :thumbsup: .

BillyG still want to give your warn out Nittos a good home?

 

[BillyGman]

Billy, it looks like I am going to purchase a set of Kazera wheels for my car. These wheels have 18 X 9.5 for the rear, to which I am going your route with the Nitto Drag Radials (305 X 45 X 18). I would also like to put Nittos on the front wheels which are 18 X 8.5. Do you have any suggestions for Nitto 555's for the front in the size tires to use that would be compatible with the rears?

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida

If you're bent on running Nitto tires in the front too, then your only possible choice would have to be the NT555 in P255/45 ZR18 103W because that's the only thing that has a tire height (aka "overall diameter") that's even close to the factory stock tire height on the front. The factory stock front tires are 27.2" tall, and the NT555 P255/45 ZR18 Nittos have a height of 26.97". So that's only about .23" shorter which I doubt would create a problem with your traction control, or ABS system. But that's merely a guess on my part. Keep in mind that those NT555 tires are NOT drag radials like the NT555R tires are, because obviously you wouldn't want to run drag radials on the front (unless you're driving a wrong wheel drive car ).

 

[DEFYANT]

Welcome.

You will not regret the Trilogy choice. On the street the stock tires will get you by. Before I get flamed again!, I will be upgrading to wider rims and (probably) Nittos eventually!