Dealership unhappy they're not going to get to screw me?

[TEGEN]

Do you guys realize that selling a car at a dealership is akin to working for minimun wage. They truly struggle to make ends meet. In these times when hardly anyone is buying a car, it's even worse. Plus your trade in is generally a turd, that's why you are trading it in and most if not every car is sold at auction, not sold at top dollar for full value. Hell if it could have been sold that way you would have done it yourself. If someone walked into your place of business and wanted to buy your product or service at cost,,,,well you would be pretty pissed off as well. Every one now adays wants to screw the next guy down the line , but they are so Violated when it happens to them. And no I don't sell cars for a living.

+1

Everyone likes to get a good deal, but you have to be realistic. There is nothing wrong with making a little profit. That is after all, why we all drag our asses out of bed every morning isn't it?

Be friendly, get a "good" deal and be happy with your purchase!

(I've never been in the car business BTW)

 

[jm35ny]

I`ve seen alot of very shady dealers, but a few good ones.

Several dealers by me were involved in a scam last year where they accepting late model trade ins, and then selling the customer a new car. The only problem was that they weren`t paying off the balance of the loan on the trade in like they were supposed too. The dealers then suddenly closed up and went out of business and the customer got screwed big time.

 

[jm35ny]

I got screwed in 2008 when i purchased a new Dodge. When i bought the car I had the sales tax included in the loan and then drove away with a temp reg. When I went back to pick up the plates a few weeks later the dealer was out of business, and guess what! They never registered the car and i got stuck with the sales tax bill again! They did this to about a dozen customers

 

[Red Turtle]

I got screwed in 2008 when i purchased a new Dodge. When i bought the car I had the sales tax included in the loan and then drove away with a temp reg. When I went back to pick up the plates a few weeks later the dealer was out of business, and guess what! They never registered the car and i got stuck with the sales tax bill again! They did this to about a dozen customers

If you purchased the car from the dealer who charged you tax, why would you have to pay tax again when registering? Out of business or not, your buyers order would indicate the sales tax was charged. Whether or not the dealer paid the tax is not your problem. You should have spoke to someone before you decided to pay that.

 

[jm35ny]

The dealer charged the tax and it was listed on the bill of sale so it could be rolled into the monthly payment, they were supposed to get the car plated, reg, and pay the state sales tax. But they never did, they took the down payment and went out of business. The loan was through a local bank and not Jeep, so three weeks later i was left with a new car that had an expired temp reg tag.

Jeep didnt want to have anything to do with it because each dealership is indep. owned and operated and i so i had to go to dmv and pay again for plates, reg, and sales tax. I`m still fighting to be the money back.

 

[Red Turtle]

The dealer charged the tax and it was listed on the bill of sale so it could be rolled into the monthly payment, they were supposed to get the car plated, reg, and pay the state sales tax. But they never did, they took the down payment and went out of business. The loan was through a local bank and not Jeep, so three weeks later i was left with a new car that had an expired temp reg tag.

Jeep didnt want to have anything to do with it because each dealership is indep. owned and operated and i so i had to go to dmv and pay again for plates, reg, and sales tax. I`m still fighting to be the money back.

Something is still wrong. When the dealer registers the car, they don't take a check down to the DMV for the registration and sales tax. If you purchased from an individual then yes, they would have to collect sales tax but in this case it was from a retailer and you have a bill of sale indicating the tax was collected. The dealer (out of business or not) is liable for the sales tax fraud or lack of payment.

How much did you have to pay in total to get the car registered with the tax?

 

[lsp408]

Because they make a lot of money in after sales, notice the finance guy always wears the most gold

What happened to your G8, havent talked to you in a while..

Hi Kevin, I sold my G8 while back (got bored with it). Did you get you a stang too? I am in town this week and I need to stop by to see what you have plan on yours

 

[kevinp]

Hi Kevin, I sold my G8 while back (got bored with it). Did you get you a stang too? I am in town this week and I need to stop by to see what you have plan on yours

I picked up a 2011 GT a couple weeks ago. I'll send you a PM, I moved a while ago so dont stop by

 

[Mika]

I don't really see how not kissing his ass and falling all over themselves to sell a car at invoice = scum. Do you expect to get the same service on a 12 dollar meal at Appleby's as you get on a 400 dollar meal at a 3 star Michelin restaurant?

Pretty crappy analogy, seeing as how both ends of the spectrum involve the same exact place(Ford dealer). And no, I don't expect people to fall over themselves to make a minimum profit. If the sales guy was smart, he'd set a price right off the bat that's fair(a profit for the salesman, and a good price for the customer) and stick with it. But salespeople don't think like that. The vast majority are greedy bastards who would fleece their own mothers to make a buck. Not all, but most. There are some salespeople out there who try to be fair with the customer, but they unfortunately are outnumbered by the bad apples.

Bottom line is, the dealership is a business. And businesses aren't there for handouts. They are there to make money. If the salesman is concerned about the volume of cars, he'll concede a bit on the price and be happy he got a car sold. If he's more concerned about the profit on each car(which is understandable), then he will let the customer know that he won't do that. Not can't. Won't.

+1

Everyone likes to get a good deal, but you have to be realistic. There is nothing wrong with making a little profit. That is after all, why we all drag our asses out of bed every morning isn't it?

Be friendly, get a "good" deal and be happy with your purchase!

(I've never been in the car business BTW)

I have no problem making a profit. Especially since cars are a business. It's hard to find salespeople that are willing to work with you. Most seem to try to hit a home run on every sale.



Mika

 

[Booky]

Plus your trade in is generally a turd, that's why you are trading it in and most if not every car is sold at auction, not sold at top dollar for full value. Hell if it could have been sold that way you would have done it yourself.

That's a BS statement and you know it. Their are plenty of people out their that just want to upgrade to a new vehicle because they have had theirs for while. A lot of these are low mileage well kept vehicles. They trade them in on a new vehicle because they do not have the knowledge or resources to sell them on their own.

I have seen this happen first hand with my wife and my parents when they went to trade their vehicles in on new ones. There vehicles were low mileage and had zero problems and the dealership tried to screw them big time. They quote what ever book value is the lowest that week (Blue book, Black book, NADA, etc.) and then tack on reasons why they have to go even lower then that (slow market, bad economy, not a popular model, etc.). It is all smoke and mirrors. If anyone else stole a couple thousand dollars from a stranger they would be charged with felony theft.

 

[Red Turtle]

That's a BS statement and you know it. Their are plenty of people out their that just want to upgrade to a new vehicle because they have had theirs for while. A lot of these are low mileage well kept vehicles. They trade them in on a new vehicle because they do not have the knowledge or resources to sell them on their own.

I have seen this happen first hand with my wife and my parents when they went to trade their vehicles in on new ones. There vehicles were low mileage and had zero problems and the dealership tried to screw them big time. They quote what ever book value is the lowest that week (Blue book, Black book, NADA, etc.) and then tack on reasons why they have to go even lower then that (slow market, bad economy, not a popular model, etc.). It is all smoke and mirrors. If anyone else stole a couple thousand dollars from a stranger they would be charged with felony theft.

Have you been in the business? Unless you have, you will not understand the used car market. Book is only a tool or guide, and most of the time the dealership will use popularity of model, color, price range, estimated recon, age/model year as this leads to financing options, and ease of dumping it at the auction in the event it does not sell. The book values change drastically and if the car sits for 60days, it could potentially lose $500-$1000. So in theory, if the dealer put "Book" in a car and then could not sell it with 60 days, they could be in the car over book.

Now because most of you have never been in the business, lenders use " wholesale book" as loan value on used cars, and almost 100% of buyers "don't want to put money down". So now you have an equation of 120-130+% LTV (loan to value) after you take into consideration profit, being in the car over book, and of course financing the tax's/registration fees. This most of the time results in a lack of financing options for most. Now you have to hope that someone comes in with cash to purchase the car, which is less than 5%.

So here the dealer sits with the car and now has to go sell it at the auction. The next guy buying is not going to put his dealer in the same scenario, so he is going to try and buy it $2k-3k back of book. The dealer does not have to sell it for this, but runs the risk of the situation getting worse as time goes on. Dealers will recognize a car at auction from the same dealer and offer less and less each week.

So all of these things are considered when placing a value on a vehicle. Everyone has the ability to try and sell their own vehicle and are not headlocked into trading.

 

[CAPTAIN JACK]

well said, I sell Fords

 

[Booky]

Have you been in the business? Unless you have, you will not understand the used car market.

You can make all the excuses you want, it does not justify screwing people out of their hard earned money.

Here are a few very informative articles to help understand "the used car market":

Confessions of a Car Salesman — Edmunds.com

"Confessions of a Car Salesman" Updated for 2009 — Edmunds.com

Confessions From the Dealership Service Department — Edmunds.com

 

[FormulaFord]

These are my opinions and experience over the years
Most Car Dealerships have horrible reputations because of their business practices. Stick with the dealers or salesman, no matter how far that treat you right.

Trade ins are all different. Some people trade because they dont want the craigslist killer showing up at their door. Some dont know how to market the vehicle. Some because their car is a lemon! Others because when you factor the retail value and difference in the tax amount you save when trading dont want to be bothered.

Salesman do have a tough job and I respect that. However, many years ago I was trained by a dealer to sell the car for as much as possible. Higher profits to dealer and bigger commissions for salesmen. This practice still has not changed.

Consumers now have the internet (available information) to go into a negotiation with a level playing field. I do not nor should anyone expect to buy any vehicle for a loss to a dealer. No business can survive that. However, burying someone in a major purchase like an automobile is just wrong! I always look at their exact cost including holdbacks and offer a $500.oo deal. That is fair on both ends. If they dont take it I find a dealer that will.

Cheers!

 

[beefcake]

How is selling you a vehicle "screwing you" out of your hard earned money.

The car has a price tag on it.

But for some reason, people don't feel obliged to pay sticker for it.

You pay sticker for milk, gas, clothes, food, pretty much everything you buy.

But the car dealer is the bad guy for selling at sticker.

Could you imagine how much time you wouldn't have if you researched every item you buy before you buy it.

Sit down for 6 hours online before you go to fill up your tank. Researching prices of every gas station in the city.

Calling Krogers, Aldi, Biggs, Walmart, Costco, Sams before buying 1 gallon of milk, and then your bread, then your beef, working em for the best price?

When you walk into sams, you pay the price they have on the product. Do you call them scum of the earth?

I happen to be one of the most successful car salesman, i would say in the country. Guaranteed i'm in the top 5% of earners.

It's not from "screwing" people. it's from treating people right. Some deals make more money than others, but I personally don't treat people any different. If you have a 450 credit or an 850 credit, i'm going to treat you the same.

I send birthday cards, christmas cards to all my customers. Takes me 2 weeks to do all the christmas cards each year.

The people you make the most on are actually your best customers, because they are the happiest and not sweating every single penny. They are happy with their purchase. Not walking around thinking they got the shaft.

Know it all's are the worst to deal with, because they have a chip on their shoulder out of the gate.

What is a fair profit for a dealer to make on a car? what percent?

If a dealer was making the kind of money other items profit, you'd be paying 3 to 4 times for the car what it cost.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with knowing what you want, but go about it the right way.

The funny thing is, the know it alls that want to pay nothing for the vehicle they are buying, always want way more for the trade than it's worth. Because they looked it up on kbb, who has nothing to do with buying or selling cars.

 

[Red Turtle]

You can make all the excuses you want, it does not justify screwing people out of their hard earned money.

Here are a few very informative articles to help understand "the used car market":

This is from one of your articles, and is generally the case with a large part of your salesforce. Funny thing is that a lot of dealers do not offer any type of salary, so you do the math.

Confessions of a Car Salesman — Edmunds.com

"Confessions of a Car Salesman" Updated for 2009 — Edmunds.com

Confessions From the Dealership Service Department — Edmunds.com

Sell any cars?

I hit the lot as gas prices soared and then the credit crunch hit. As a "green pea" I sold three or four cars a month — and some of those were shared deals. With $2,000 a month salary and $200 per deal minimum commissions, I could just barely pay my bills.

This is from one of your articles, and is generally the case with a large part of your salesforce. Funny thing is that a lot of dealers do not offer any type of salary.


So if they put too much in the car, can't sell it, take it to the auction and lose money should they go back to the owner for the difference?

I was the used car manager for a top 40 store (at the time) in the Nation, and dealt with trades all day. I can tell you that even family was never happy with their trade value. Again, nobody is forcing you to trade. If you are not happy with the trade value, then go sell it. As far as screwing people out of money, that is your perception. Most of your new car sales are mini's and used cars is where you actually can make a check.

I have been out of the business for two years and still get Christmas cards from my old customers. I like Beefcake, took very good care of my customers and worked at a store with a great reputation.

 

[bexamous]

How is selling you a vehicle "screwing you" out of your hard earned money.

The car has a price tag on it.

But for some reason, people don't feel obliged to pay sticker for it.

You pay sticker for milk, gas, clothes, food, pretty much everything you buy.

But the car dealer is the bad guy for selling at sticker.

Sticker price is a joke, anyone paying sticker price is an idiot, well depending on dealer. Scion or Saturn or anything with fixed prices and no haggling, that is fair. No one walks out thinking they were screwed. Go to most dealers with ridiculous MSRP only to be forced to play some retarded game haggling w/price is just a joke with its only purpose being to attempt to screw customer.

Could you imagine how much time you wouldn't have if you researched every item you buy before you buy it.

People actually do. But rather dividing research time per item they divide it per dollar. I'll spend 5 seconds comparing two brands of chips on the shelf, I'll spend 10 minutes checking prices online when I go buy a Xbox or something, and I'll spend an hour or two checking prices online when buying a car. Same amount of time is spent researching for each dollar I spend.

It's not from "screwing" people. it's from treating people right. Some deals make more money than others, but I personally don't treat people any different. If you have a 450 credit or an 850 credit, i'm going to treat you the same.

If two people buy exact same product and pay different prices what do say happened to the guy who paid more? He got screwed. That is how this term is defined. Paying more than you have to. If this ever happens you are screwing people regardless of what you claim.

What is a fair profit for a dealer to make on a car? what percent?

Make up any percent you want its fair as long as its the same for everyone.


Anyways first car I got was a Scion because of their true pricing or whatever they call it. Recently I was looking for a new car, I really would have been happy with a STI, 135i, or a new GT. I kept going back and forth between them for awhile.

Went to Subaru dealer, got damn they are annoying as hell. First of all they think the STI is something exotic and basically don't let you test drive it... and when I asked about cost they quoted me MSRP. Such a joke, I left and really main reason I didn't get a STI.

I went to Ford dealer, walked in the front door and said "Hey I just wanted to test drive a new GT" and 30 seconds later had keys. Between that and Xplan pricing-- no haggling bullshit-- that is probably why I now have a Mustang.

I never even went to BMW dealer... enough friends have BMWs I didn't really need to see anything. Really 135i was below the STI and GT... after test drivign GT I was pretty happy with it and knew thats what I wanted.

Anyways.

 

[beefcake]

Sticker price is a joke, anyone paying sticker price is an idiot, well depending on dealer. Scion or Saturn or anything with fixed prices and no haggling, that is fair. No one walks out thinking they were screwed. Go to most dealers with ridiculous MSRP only to be forced to play some retarded game haggling w/price is just a joke with its only purpose being to attempt to screw customer.



People actually do. But rather dividing research time per item they divide it per dollar. I'll spend 5 seconds comparing two brands of chips on the shelf, I'll spend 10 minutes checking prices online when I go buy a Xbox or something, and I'll spend an hour or two checking prices online when buying a car. Same amount of time is spent researching for each dollar I spend.



If two people buy exact same product and pay different prices what do say happened to the guy who paid more? He got screwed. That is how this term is defined. Paying more than you have to. If this ever happens you are screwing people regardless of what you claim.



Make up any percent you want its fair as long as its the same for everyone.


Anyways first car I got was a Scion because of their true pricing or whatever they call it. Recently I was looking for a new car, I really would have been happy with a STI, 135i, or a new GT. I kept going back and forth between them for awhile.

Went to Subaru dealer, got damn they are annoying as hell. First of all they think the STI is something exotic and basically don't let you test drive it... and when I asked about cost they quoted me MSRP. Such a joke, I left and really main reason I didn't get a STI.

I went to Ford dealer, walked in the front door and said "Hey I just wanted to test drive a new GT" and 30 seconds later had keys. Between that and Xplan pricing-- no haggling bullshit-- that is probably why I now have a Mustang.

I never even went to BMW dealer... enough friends have BMWs I didn't really need to see anything. Really 135i was below the STI and GT... after test drivign GT I was pretty happy with it and knew thats what I wanted.

Anyways.

So what your saying is, that if tomorrow, ford and every other manufacturer said that you can't have a penny off the sticker, it is what it is, they you would be fine with that!

 

[bexamous]

So what your saying is, that if tomorrow, ford and every other manufacturer said that you can't have a penny off the sticker, it is what it is, they you would be fine with that!

Yeah why not. I doubt they'd find many people to pay those ridiculous MSRP prices, I know I wouldn't, but I'm sure it wouldn't take long for someone to lower the MSRP to something reasonable to make sales. Free market works pretty well with regards to keeping prices in line. If you're assuming some type of price fixing among all car dealers that would be illegal. Inflated MSRP does nothing other than enable dealers to screw over some customers.

 

[90goldtsiawd]

LOL @ all the internet know-it-alls in here... These threads crack me up as I have to deal with people like most in here everyday. Trying to justify my job everyday to these kind of people got old a long time ago. Reading these threads always gives me a good laugh.

How is selling you a vehicle "screwing you" out of your hard earned money.

The car has a price tag on it.

But for some reason, people don't feel obliged to pay sticker for it.

You pay sticker for milk, gas, clothes, food, pretty much everything you buy.

But the car dealer is the bad guy for selling at sticker.

Could you imagine how much time you wouldn't have if you researched every item you buy before you buy it.

Sit down for 6 hours online before you go to fill up your tank. Researching prices of every gas station in the city.

Calling Krogers, Aldi, Biggs, Walmart, Costco, Sams before buying 1 gallon of milk, and then your bread, then your beef, working em for the best price?

When you walk into sams, you pay the price they have on the product. Do you call them scum of the earth?

I happen to be one of the most successful car salesman, i would say in the country. Guaranteed i'm in the top 5% of earners.

It's not from "screwing" people. it's from treating people right. Some deals make more money than others, but I personally don't treat people any different. If you have a 450 credit or an 850 credit, i'm going to treat you the same.

I send birthday cards, christmas cards to all my customers. Takes me 2 weeks to do all the christmas cards each year.

The people you make the most on are actually your best customers, because they are the happiest and not sweating every single penny. They are happy with their purchase. Not walking around thinking they got the shaft.

Know it all's are the worst to deal with, because they have a chip on their shoulder out of the gate.

What is a fair profit for a dealer to make on a car? what percent?

If a dealer was making the kind of money other items profit, you'd be paying 3 to 4 times for the car what it cost.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with knowing what you want, but go about it the right way.

The funny thing is, the know it alls that want to pay nothing for the vehicle they are buying, always want way more for the trade than it's worth. Because they looked it up on kbb, who has nothing to do with buying or selling cars.

+65,000 to all of this.