Cylinder #8 fail... rebuild suggestions?

[7Lemons]

What do you guys think about this "sorta new" Aluminator on Ebay? I was chatting with the guy and it seems legit and everything. Not sure how flexible he is on price, but he's willing to have it shipped. Worth $7k? I could use my gen 1 timing components and this thing is ready to go. Any feedback is appreciated!

5.0l Cyote Engine M-6007-A50SCA Aluminator | eBay

 

[Riddick]

Only downside is that engine has 9.5:1 compression and your stock motor has 11:1. You will have to spin your supercharger a lot harder to make up for the decrease in compression.

As far as price goes it's a good deal.

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[7Lemons]

Only downside is that engine has 9.5:1 compression and your stock motor has 11:1. You will have to spin your supercharger a lot harder to make up for the decrease in compression.

As far as price goes it's a good deal.

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Thanks for the reply.

Yeah it seemed like it price-wise but I was hung up on the lower compression as I don't want to also upgrade my SC kit right now. I wonder how much harder I need to spin it to compensate? Is it a proportional difference (i.e.: 13.6% loss in compression = X amount more boost to compensate?). I wonder how far down I can pulley my Procharger P1SC? I was running about 9-10psi with a 4.00 pulley.

Do you think Shaun's AED1000 short block is a better option than this? I was trying to find a set of gen 2 heads, lightly used (with plans to reuse my gen 1 timing components) but no luck so far. New gen 2 heads are about $1,600 at Livernois.

 

[Riddick]

I honestly don't know how much more boost you will have to run. I would stick to stock compression, these high compression engines love boost.

You can reuse your gen 1 heads on a gen 2 block, they bolt right up.

The AED block is a good choice but it's a little pricey in my opinion. Your basically getting a stock gen 2 bottom end with a steel ring pack and some anti friction coatings for 4 grand. AED block will do great and you won't have to worry about him messing something up, he's very detail oriented and it will be done right. However, for a few hundred more you can have a forged bottom end. The street series blocks from Livernois are 4500 I think and you get forged rods and pistons.

It really comes down to what you want to spend. Give us a budget and we can provide better recommendations.

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[7Lemons]

I honestly don't know how much more boost you will have to run. I would stick to stock compression, these high compression engines love boost.

You can reuse your gen 1 heads on a gen 2 block, they bolt right up.

The AED block is a good choice but it's a little pricey in my opinion. Your basically getting a stock gen 2 bottom end with a steel ring pack and some anti friction coatings for 4 grand. AED block will do great and you won't have to worry about him messing something up, he's very detail oriented and it will be done right. However, for a few hundred more you can have a forged bottom end. The street series blocks from Livernois are 4500 I think and you get forged rods and pistons.

It really comes down to what you want to spend. Give us a budget and we can provide better recommendations.

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I'm trying to do a build that's maybe around $6k and will handle up to 750 or 800whp someday... if I work my way up to that once I'm running return fuel system and E85. My local shop that has done work on my car will do the actual engine complete swap for *around* $1k. I was just looking at their offerings (Livernois) on their site (and it's the closest to me as well in case I want to drive it). Since I had the #8 failure, I'd love to get my gen 1 heads off and take them there for inspection/freshening up, etc.

So with this Livernois forged bottom end, plus re-use my gen 1 heads and everything else, should get me something together under $6k, although I don't know how much it will cost to get the work done to the heads. I also have to actually get the heads off while it's in my garage where I don't have a lift (and the car has Kooks headers - man it's tight in there). I was looking for a set of lightly used gen 1 heads for a decent price (so I wouldn't have to bother removing mine), but have had zero luck so far. Thanks for the feedback so far man!!!

 

[Coz]

You may want to try salvage yards for Gen2 heads from an F-150.

 

[7Lemons]

You may want to try salvage yards for Gen2 heads from an F-150.

Hmm I didn't think the F150 heads were exactly the same? Well shit, that would sure as hell help my search if that's the case!! Is it '11-14 F150 heads that are the same as my gen 1 then?

 

[Riddick]

F-150 heads are the same. Intake cams are different but the heads are the same. They are all over eBay for sale

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[7Lemons]

F-150 heads are the same. Intake cams are different but the heads are the same. They are all over eBay for sale

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Yeah, wow I see that. Do the F150 heads follow the same as the Mustang in terms of gen 1 vs gen 2? I'd like to have a gen 2 set for the larger valves etc and then run my gen 1 intake cams.

 

[Coz]

That's why I suggested the Gen2 F-150 heads...

While it may stretch your budget, I would recommend the L&M intake cams. The Gen1 Boss exhaust cams are dirt cheap. I think they're the same in Gen 2.

 

[7Lemons]

Just a little update on this, I ended up buying a nice set of low miles (~18k) gen 2 heads and cams, timing components, arp stud kit etc from a guy in CA who worked with Shaun @ Aed on it (Shaun had built it for him for the guy's 14 GT).

Also, Shaun is building me an AED1000 short block! I decided to go this route after talking with Shaun at length. I feel like it's worth a little extra $$ at this point to know for sure that it's all done right and with precision, and he seems unbelievably meticulous. He is incredibly knowledgeable and made a strong case for why the gen 2 factory rods/pistons are as good or better, for various reasons, than certain forged components.

One of Shaun's quotes:
"Custom builds for boost that use 2618 Forged pistons are generally NOT going to last that long due to the clearances needed as the expansion rate of 2618 aluminum is double that of the OE (Mahle) M142p aluminum."


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[decipha]

gen2 setup requires a gen2 ecu so be sure to get one

That's interesting. I've run 2618 billet pistons in my personal vehicles for years and never a problem.

 

[7Lemons]

gen2 setup requires a gen2 ecu so be sure to get one

That's interesting. I've run 2618 billet pistons in my personal vehicles for years and never a problem.

Well you have to see the rest of the context, he was talking in regards to pushing the motor, and expansion rates, etc... Shaun has worked on/built/played with multiple 1500+HP coyotes. He was adamant that Manley H beam forged rods are NOT stronger than gen 2 I beams. He also went on to say:

Factory Mahle M142p castings are superior to aftermarket in a few ways:

1. Design, specifically the skirt
2. Material, M142p is as ductile as 2618 but expands like 4032. This is the same alloy you find in factory supercars, like the ford GT, the GT500, etc.

Also - you can run with a gen 1 ecu, providing the intake cams and other timing components are all gen 1 (gen 2 exhaust cams okay).

 

[Riddick]

After more research the Gen 2 blocks are still available for under 2 grand. Cylinder Block FR3Z-6009-H | TascaParts.com

I know you already placed your order with Shaun but figured I would update this for anyone else looking into this. I am not trying to discredit AED or Shaun but you are paying 2k more for a few anti friction coatings and steel rings. However, like you said it will be done right.

 

[GNBRETT]

The #8 intake port on the Coyote lacks a water jacket so it's this cylinder that tends to run hotter than all the other cylinders.

The cylinder head temp sensor is also on the passenger side near #4 cylinder which doesn't pick up the temperature increase on the #8 cylinder therefore the computer doesnt see a problem and therefore doesn't correct with either pulling timing or adding fuel.

A good tuner will know this and tune around it. And as far as blow-by goes dont worry about it. Coyote motor's are known to have lots of blow-by which is why u need a breather. FatFab sells a combo battery/Breather set up.

I have a fully build Sleeved Pro Mod Coyote motor built by MMR and I have had lots of blow-by for almost 4 years now. Means nothing! And Shaun at AED is a great choice! Dude is brilliant!

I had another thread trying to troubleshoot my pcv system for excessive blowby on my '13GT (followed by smoking exhaust) and have since learned my cylinder #8 is toast , and I thought I'd make a new thread asking for suggestions. Most of what I found on the forum search was old, especially with short block availability and pricing. I did a compression test (dry) and here are the results:

#1 - 165psi
#2 - 172psi
#3 - 165psi
#4 - 176psi
#5 - 175psi
#6 - 178psi
#7 - 160psi
#8 - 35psi

I really can't/don't want to throw $10-15k at the project, and was just wondering what the most cost effective (and maybe safe-er than with my gen 1??) options are for staying under 750whp as the goal? I was just about to convert to E85 and return style fuel system with dual pumps before all of this, so I'll be doing that after it's all said and done as well. I've learned from the other thread that it may be a good option for me to get a gen 2 short block and reuse my gen 1 heads and timing components (and everything else I already have...kooks headers, accessories, procharger kit, etc.). Can/should I use the stock gen 2 short block for < 750whp, or should I get a forged short block? I've read some threads with people getting a gen 2 short block for $1800 (https://www.svtperformance.com/threads/forged-short-block-what-did-you-guys-do.1161295/page-3) , but I'm having no luck finding it for anywhere near that. I'm not in a rush, if that matters.

Also - I was tuned by Lund and running around 9-10 psi with the Procharger.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice!

 

[7Lemons]

After more research the Gen 2 blocks are still available for under 2 grand. Cylinder Block FR3Z-6009-H | TascaParts.com

I know you already placed your order with Shaun but figured I would update this for anyone else looking into this. I am not trying to discredit AED or Shaun but you are paying 2k more for a few anti friction coatings and steel rings. However, like you said it will be done right.

But that is just the bare block though, right? This is what tasca lists as the short block: 2015-2017 Ford Mustang Short Block FR3Z-6006-K | TascaParts.com
$3300 + 1500 core charge is insane, huh!?

And, you're right, I know I'm def paying a little more (although I didn't think $2k, so I kinda hope your wrong there, lol ), but just feel very comfortable with Shaun and he mentioned also that he will be:

1. Cherry picking pistons for clearance to the bore (pistons vary in size, I put the smaller units in the rear of the engine)
2. Ultra fine micro shot peening of the pins, top ring, and bearings.
3. Setting bearing clearances where I’d like them for high HP

 

[Riddick]

The link I provided is for a complete short block. My friend has this exact short block and it comes complete. They no longer make these so once they are sold out thats it.

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[7Lemons]

The #8 intake port on the Coyote lacks a water jacket so it's this cylinder that tends to run hotter than all the other cylinders.

The cylinder head temp sensor is also on the passenger side near #4 cylinder which doesn't pick up the temperature increase on the #8 cylinder therefore the computer doesnt see a problem and therefore doesn't correct with either pulling timing or adding fuel.

A good tuner will know this and tune around it. And as far as blow-by goes dont worry about it. Coyote motor's are known to have lots of blow-by which is why u need a breather. FatFab sells a combo battery/Breather set up.

I have a fully build Sleeved Pro Mod Coyote motor built by MMR and I have had lots of blow-by for almost 4 years now. Means nothing! And Shaun at AED is a great choice! Dude is brilliant!

I don't know what happened as I wasn't even pushing 650whp and I thought I was running a pretty "safe" setup. But from what I understand, if you have enough blow by, it will make basically a mist of oil in the inlet air, causing detonation - which is lethal to the motor. I don't know blow-by to be the actual issue, let me make that clear!!

And I have to say, that I'm disappointed with Lund that they didn't squawk or at least question or say anything about the DW 95# injectors. Shaun will NOT tune with them at all. However, he did admit that he's way more "anal" than most and that Lund is more for the masses. He had reasons...and they were legit.

 

[7Lemons]

The link I provided is for a complete short block. My friend has this exact short block and it comes complete. They no longer make these so once they are sold out thats it.

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I'm really gonna pretend I DON'T know this! haha Why the different part numbers and huge discrepancy then? I also saw the FR3Z-6006-K number on the other Ford parts sites as well?? Oh well, I'm past the point of no return man!! lol

 

[Riddick]

Once I 100% confirm the above I will post back in this thread. With so many different part numbers its very confusing. My buddy reached out to his parts guy at the dealer to see if the H part number is still available. If it is im going to go ahead and order one and have it waiting, I have a feeling these wont be around long for that price.