CT5-V Blackwing vs BMW M5 VS Plaid

[GTSpartan]

So that begs the question, should Caddy never have built this thing and gone straight to EV?

 

[9397SVTs]

Fair points but just to touch on a few things, first you mentioned the plaid having more hp and more tq but it also is much much heavier than the other two.

You asked the question do numbers matter in the street? The answer to that question on this forum since I’ve joined is absolutely. Ppl on here already bring up what a car will do in real life situation vs at the track . It’s the same logic when being up 1/4 times vs roll racing on the hwy.


Lastly you said driving sports cars is more than just about the numbers and I couldn’t agree more, however , these are not sports cars.

Tesla. 4766 lbs. 1020/1050. 4.67 lbs/hp
CT5. 4123 lbs. 668/659. 6.17 lbs/hp
M5 CS 4114 lbs. 627/553. 6.56 lbs/hp

Seems obvious to me.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think the typical owner of these cars are out roll racing or going to the track; which is why I mentioned real world daily use on the street.

They are sports cars based on their intended purpose. Sure, they aren't 2 door coupes/convertibles. Would it be better to call them sport sedans?

 

[ArabianOak]

So that begs the question, should Caddy never have built this thing and gone straight to EV?

If it’s profitable. They already have an ADM on them, but that is not saying much considering this market.

 

[PhoenixM3]

I figured this vid has something for everyone one and I’ve always liked Jason Cammisa and Randy Pobst

The 1/4mi times were as expected but the time of the Blackwing was shocking to me. Enjoy

Such a great vid! Awesome production.

 

[PhoenixM3]

So that begs the question, should Caddy never have built this thing and gone straight to EV?

You shut yer whore mouth!

 

[PhoenixM3]

Got damn! That Caddy is sooooooooooooooooooooooo bad ass.

Almost had me considering trading in my 350R. Almost.

 

[andymarkv]

Tesla is accomplishing amazing things with their cars, but due to their eco focus, they can only chase numbers. Driver involvement, experience, and emotion is severely lacking.

Agreed. Although I am interested to see Dodge's take on an EV. Tim Kuniskis says they're not building electric cars...they're building "electric muscle".
And coming from a company that is sticking blown 700hp engines in everything, I'm curious as to see what they come up with.

But for me, I don't know how you can top the driving experience of a V8 with manual transmission.

 

[kaz109]

So that begs the question, should Caddy never have built this thing and gone straight to EV?

I believe they absolutely should’ve done it just to leave their mark. There is a market for it but it’s a very small market and that’s proven being as how this is clearly the swan song.

Here is a question for you @GTSpartan , how many of these ppl on this site who think this caddy is so amazing will actually buy it new? I’m guessing out of 100 ppl, single digits will actually pull the trigger. My point is no matter how much the ppl on here are saying they wish all cars were like this the actual buying market says otherwise. Most actual buyer would prefer a plaid or an M5 .

So the long answer to your question is, yes I believe GM was right in making there car but not as a competitor to this class. It’s a nice niche vehicle that is a cool and unique but it won’t come close to outselling or taking buyers away from the the plaid or M5 or others in this segment IMO

 

[kaz109]

Tesla. 4766 lbs. 1020/1050. 4.67 lbs/hp
CT5. 4123 lbs. 668/659. 6.17 lbs/hp
M5 CS 4114 lbs. 627/553. 6.56 lbs/hp

Seems obvious to me.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think the typical owner of these cars are out roll racing or going to the track; which is why I mentioned real world daily use on the street.

They are sports cars based on their intended purpose. Sure, they aren't 2 door coupes/convertibles. Would it be better to call them sport sedans?

I was assuming the plaid weighted over 5k so I was wrong there. I agree the typical owner of these cars are not on the track but I am 100% sure they are having fun on the street and hwy when the opportunity presents itself.

I still disagree with your premise of these being sports cars based on your logic that that is these cars “ intended purpose “ …… that is not these cars “ intended purpose “ IMO , the purpose is still a 4 door car you can take your kids to school and basketball practice that is ALSO fast af and handles well. A super sedan could be a title I guess but again when you say sports car we are talking, vette, cayman, evora, S2000, brz etc etc…. Those are cars built for performance and engagement first with practicality last on the list .

Your definition could be different but that’s mine

 

[CobraBob]

I was assuming the plaid weighted over 5k so I was wrong there. I agree the typical owner of these cars are not on the track but I am 100% sure they are having fun on the street and hwy when the opportunity presents itself.

I still disagree with your premise of these being sports cars based on your logic that that is these cars “ intended purpose “ …… that is not these cars “ intended purpose “ IMO , the purpose is still a 4 door car you can take your kids to school and basketball practice that is ALSO fast af and handles well. A super sedan could be a title I guess but again when you say sports car we are talking, vette, cayman, evora, S2000, brz etc etc…. Those are cars built for performance and engagement first with practicality last on the list .

Your definition could be different but that’s mine

Similarly why so many family guys bought Dodge Charger Hellcats. We've heard them say routinely that they bought it for family transportation....with the huge secondary benefit of it being FAST.

 

[quad]

That was a great video thanks for posting! Good editing and the CT5-V sounds great. To be honest all three cars are awesome. The ICE cars have a lot of personality. This video really illustrates how much faster the Plaid is. Now the next challenge would be to give these electric cars a personality if that is possible.

I ended up watching a few videos on the Hagerty channel after this video as well as Power Nation. Really awesome content on Youtube these days.

 

[quad]

Agreed. Although I am interested to see Dodge's take on an EV. Tim Kuniskis says they're not building electric cars...they're building "electric muscle".
And coming from a company that is sticking blown 700hp engines in everything, I'm curious as to see what they come up with.

But for me, I don't know how you can top the driving experience of a V8 with manual transmission.

Who Will Build the First Production Manual Transmission Electric Car?

Which carmaker will be the first to build a manual transmission EV? Maybe none of them. But if such a thing should come to pass, here’s where we’d expect it to come from first.

www.motortrend.com

 

[GTSpartan]

Here is a question for you @GTSpartan , how many of these ppl on this site who think this caddy is so amazing will actually buy it new? I’m guessing out of 100 ppl, single digits will actually pull the trigger. My point is no matter how much the ppl on here are saying they wish all cars were like this the actual buying market says otherwise. Most actual buyer would prefer a plaid or an M5 .

That's a weak argument. Only a very, very small % of people are in a position to own a $100K car anyway, so that's not saying much. For every 6 figure car sold, there are literally 100,000's "mainstream" cars sold. GM has already stated that 3K units is the max they will produce between both the CT4 and CT5 blackwings. I would say they are obviously NOT trying to dominate sales in the segment. They are simply offering the very last of a breed to the few that still desire a car like this and will sell every last one of them. How is that a bad thing?

And for us gearheads who come to sites like this to talk about performance, are sales numbers the primary measure of a cars worth these days?

 

[andymarkv]

Who Will Build the First Production Manual Transmission Electric Car?

Which carmaker will be the first to build a manual transmission EV? Maybe none of them. But if such a thing should come to pass, here’s where we’d expect it to come from first.

www.motortrend.com

Interesting... I think the Jeep Magneto concept is the absolute best attempt at mating an electric motor to manual trans.
I just can't see enough of an enthusiast market to support the business case.

I did reach out to EV West(they've been doing interesting electric engine swaps for years) and asked if they're collaborating with the gaming industry to create a "virtual manual" with electronic pedals/shifter.
If I'm going to get forced into an EV eventually...I'm hoping there may be options to make it interesting...

 

[Junior00]

We’ve seen the hero runs, I’d like to see a 5-10 lap extended shootout for these things and see where the chips fall.

 

[Blk04L]

Nice video editing. Makes it interesting to watch long term

 

[kaz109]

That's a weak argument. Only a very, very small % of people are in a position to own a $100K car anyway, so that's not saying much. For every 6 figure car sold, there are literally 100,000's "mainstream" cars sold. GM has already stated that 3K units is the max they will produce between both the CT4 and CT5 blackwings. I would say they are obviously NOT trying to dominate sales in the segment. They are simply offering the very last of a breed to the few that still desire a car like this and will sell every last one of them. How is that a bad thing?

And for us gearheads who come to sites like this to talk about performance, are sales numbers the primary measure of a cars worth these days?

I think you missed the point of my post I’ll try to explain it better….

I am saying the 10% of ppl who buy vehicles in this segment won’t be buying a caddy. The point to me asking that question was I know there are plenty of ppl on this site that are in a position to by this caddy and odds are they will not, they will buy a M5, E63s , plaid , RS6. Etc etc …. At this price point it has been proven buyers will take the more perceived luxury and the faster car that is the easiest to drive.


You asked a question should GM have made this car and I gave my opinion. I never said it was a bad thing and I never said they shouldn’t. I stated it wouldn’t take buying away from the other two cars in the video and others in this segment


I brought up sales numbers because that is what’s it will take for it to make sense for them to build such a car for us gearheads to talk about . So no sales numbers aren’t the primary measurement of a cars worth but me bringing it up had relevance to your original question should GM make this car

 

[smitty2919]

How do you guys suggest they give EV "personality" or additional "driving experience"?

Plaid is impressive but IMO no point to compare electric to ICE in a drag race in the Production car segment...apples to oranges. What I find more impressive is Plaid suspension/brakes/tires are up to par to USE all that HP which I NEVER viewed Tesla as a competitor.

Going electric will inherently lose some "driving experience"...nature of the beast IMO.

 

[Serpent]

If it’s profitable. They already have an ADM on them, but that is not saying much considering this market.

Dang, did you get rid of the GT500 already? Car update in a new thread please!!!

 

[kirks5oh]

Gm should have made this car awd.