Combat ladies!

[DaleM]

What are your thoughts on women in combat units? Will combat units lower the physical standards? Will women rise to meet the current standards? Should there only be one PT standard now, not a his and hers as well as body fat standard?

Shooting straight is one thing. All of you you have put on a combat load and hit the mountains at high altitude know what I am talking about. Anyone who has dragged a buddy or allied wounded troop out of the line of fire knows the limits those events takes your mind and body.

Was this purely political or a well thought out decision?

 

[M240Bravo]

Doesn't matter. Soon I/we will be killing Americans. Don't have to hump far and easy shooting.

 

[DaleM]

Doesn't matter. Soon I/we will be killing Americans. Don't have to hump far and easy shooting.

If you are in Yemen you just need to point your gun in any direction to hit bad guys. I am just north of you.

My questions though pertain to those who have to go on combat missions. Then the physical stress and mental images that test the strongest of men, how will women hold out?

I hope they do well, our asses will depend on it.

 

[neatofrito1618]

When women started getting integrated into the fire service the government required the physical standards to be essentially become null. The time requirements are now at LEAST double what they should be.

 

[DaleM]

When women started getting integrated into the fire service the government required the physical standards to be essentially become null. The time requirements are now at LEAST double what they should be.

LAPD SEB tried it, women could not make it. If I recall it became a Labor Union complaint that was crushed since the LAPD said the standard is just that, no exceptions.

When I worked with those guys they were doing 3-5 high risk warrants a day when in the "duty" cycle". They are amongst the hardest tested men I have ever met. If you know anything about me that would understand the impact of my experience and observation.

 

[97desertCobra]

This shit is purely political. A big reason women service members (some) want to serve in combat arms is the promotion potential. But they need to realize that life isn't fair and a fighting force tasked to protect the country and freedom abroad is not a place for forced equality. If standards are reduced and combat effectiveness lowered then its a bad idea. And I highly suspect both will happen.

 

[einehund]

The logistics of seperated shower / latrine facilities in LP/OP's is something that i'm glad i don't have to deal with.

 

[jerrad]

Even if the standards were the same it doesnt take into account unit dynamics. I could see it causing huge issues while deployed.

 

[slow2002gt]

In my OP it causes bigger issues because of my experience with the FET I am fine with letting women join us in combat but it should not be separate.
For example if they are to join us in combat they should stay in the same living conditions have the same requirements to meet as men nothing different. I dont like hearing the excuses oh we cant have the women here long because they havent washed in a week. WTF? We havent washed in months! please give me a break so while the Iraqi's sneak weapons in under the womens burka.
If they can meet all our physical requirements by all means join us no special treatment.

 

[DaleM]

Even if the standards were the same it doesnt take into account unit dynamics. I could see it causing huge issues while deployed.

LOL, now the unit has more choices of who you sleep with? Him or her!

 

[jerrad]

LOL, now the unit has more choices of who you sleep with? Him or her!

That is one choice too many for you infantry types. :lol:

 

[F1reStart3r]

Let's see when I was in I banged our Pao, my doctor and a jag. I'm all for it. At least I would have had to walk that far to get down to business.

 

[RDJ]

Personally, as a civilian, I think it was purely a political move. I read somewhere (it may have been stars and stripes) that most women don't want to serve in combat anyway. I think that if they want to serve in combat they need to meet the exact same standards as the men. no exceptions, no excuses.

 

[MrWesson22]

It was political. Anyone who has ever served as a grunt can tell you this certainly wasn't done to make combat arms stronger. My daily carry rig in Afghanistan with the bare essentials weighed 94 pounds (this was 2009 - had to wear the stupid IOTVs instead of plate carriers). That doesn't include other mission specific gear. I weighed 185 pounds. How many women, while wearing 90 pounds of their own shit, could get me out of the line of fire at 280 pounds if I'd been shot?

Are there women that can hack it and would be great infantrymen? Absolutely. I know one or two. But they're in a very small minority. The big problem is that in our current PC military, there will always be two standards. Women in combat arms will be no different. And women that got in performing at the "female standard" will not be able to do the job. That's why the male standard was put there in the first place.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

I think it was well thought out to place a wedge in our military. It won't do anything but cause strife and a new dynamic that good leaders are going to get tired of dealing with. The good members who are left with the responsibility if training are going to be the ones to change their minds and get out when they're contract ends rather than reenlist. That or all the special operations units are going to get an influx of tryouts. It may be the only place left that won't be compromised.

 

[Fuerza]

I think this is purely political, I think the administration is trying to win points with woman. I honestly don't see a lot of woman trying to get into IN, AR or FA roles. We have female FA Officers and many of them are just punching a ticket till they are rebranched. The 2 women that I knew at OCS that openly volunteered to be FA are now out of the Army. I have yet to see and FA Major that is female. I'm sure there will be some that try and fail and maybe some that will succeed. I honestly don't see a major transition happening anytime soon, by then I'm sure the forces will draw down in Afghanistan, at least I hope.

 

[ssj4sadie]

Something that I see not many addressing is the potential of losing good incoming personnel. I'm guessing infantry ASVAB requirements are lower than some MOS's? So you may have a female that goes through MEPS, basic, and then AIT. At AIT they can't hack it (depending on what they do with standards). So you have a slot that is open and needs to be filled. How many quality people were passed over for that one female to "take a shot at it"?

We seem to forget sometimes, but the military is a testing ground for social issues it seems.

 

[flS/R]

if women want to have the same opportunities to serve on the front line in combat then they should also have to register for selective service. They should be given the same opportunity to be drafted if ever the need arose. Equality has to start from the beginning. If we were all to push this idea, how many women would be for women in combat?

 

[97desertCobra]

If they want equality then maybe we should stop it with the chivalry too? In a titanic situation save the children, first come first serve for men and women.

 

[04SloSnake]

This shit is purely political. A big reason women service members (some) want to serve in combat arms is the promotion potential. But they need to realize that life isn't fair and a fighting force tasked to protect the country and freedom abroad is not a place for forced equality. If standards are reduced and combat effectiveness lowered then its a bad idea. And I highly suspect both will happen.

Promotion potential is a terrible argument for wanting to be in the infantry though. It will actually hurt them more than it helps. The cutting score for corporals and sergeants are very high in the infantry, more so than most non-infantry jobs they are currently in. If the standards were the same, most would see a drop in PFT scores which will also degrade their ability to get promoted. This will cause their Pros/Cons to suffer as well. Now when you get in my position as a SNCO, if you are deployed in combat this also hurts your promotion potential. While deployed you are not doing a B billet, you are not doing resident PME, you are not doing a lot of things the board is looking for that women are currently able to do. The truth is enlisted females are set up better for promotions right now than men are, especially infantrymen.