Cobra Jet Cams or Comp Cams????

[SmokeGreyHatch]

Checked out your thread
Great stuff.. I didn't realize you're in Phoenix. I'm in Tucson.. BTW, our track is open, but I'm saddened to see you sold your set up..

I also plan to make a trip to AED like you did to dial in the car, once I finish it..
Because I'm not an expert in cam timing or lift, I probably won't venture into the territory of going for custom cams.. Comps should work ok I guess, unless Shaun recommends otherwise.. so far he told me he likes them just fine

I am now seriously thinking about skipping the heads, and making up the power else where like electric water pump or coils.. I am probably going to skip the race fuel thing.. It would be too inconvenient for me.

Anyway, thanks for the help..
If you have any parts left from that CJ combo, let me know, but I think you sold everything

Shaun will get you set up. Comp stage 3's on a CJ car with full 50 degree VCT should make 505-510 on 91, 525 on E85 and 540ish on FTW. On a N/A car fuel is everything just like a boosted car. Remember our D/A's drastically affect N/A cars. You'll want good fuel if you want results as E85 and FTW run way cooler and pack a punch. The water pump is worth 10ish, but it's a grand and I wouldn't want the reliability headache. FRPP tested it and said cylinder head temps rose too high to the point of pulling timing. This was due to the constant velocity verus linear to rpm on a mechanical. Don't waste your money on coils - worthless. The combo is sold, but it's easily replicated and parts are available now. If you have any other questions let me know. You'll be in good hands with Shaun.

 

[corysmach1]

Don't get caught up in stages, it's marketing "bigger/better". In an N/A car you want port velocity and flow under the curve up to your cam lift. Anything after your max lift is useless. Stage 2/3 usually only pick up past .550 lift which will be pointless at 500 thou or 12.5 mm. You also make the port volume bigger reducing velocity. These heads are extremly efficient for up to 575-600 rwhp (depending on drivetrain efficiencies). No need to do anything more than a valve job and valvetrain (valves/springs, etc). It's all a snowball. If you're going to do the short block, then do oil pump gears, high compression, E85 (12.5-13:1). The problem is that no matter what, you can't get more than 8100 rpm out of these things, Copperhead limited. You have to limit your cam grind for most area under the curve through 8000. At that point SCT can't control TiVCT as well. If you want to shift at 8100, then just run more agressive cams and lockout the VCT altogether. That Boss was not impressive in the 5.0 article. With GT heads and stock cams I was only 10 off with a 4.5 CAI on FTW fuel. The best bang for the buck N/A combo would be:

custom cams
CJ Intake/SCJ TB/4.5 CAI
longtubes full exhaust
ID 725's
3.90 gears
E85/FTW fuel

Mid 10's at 130+ at 3500 lb in good air for less than $5k in mods. Keep the stock heads, valve springs, short block. If you want N/A it's all about weight reduction and efficiency. Big's/Littles, lower with relo brackets and no front sway bar, good RST/RXT clutch, aluminum D/S, and let it eat. 7k dump, 1.49 or better 60' and put a whoopin' on your blower buddies.

That last part sounds great! My main question would be for Shaun as my car is already tuned by him: would he be able to dial my tune in with cams by just datalogging?

 

[SmokeGreyHatch]

That last part sounds great! My main question would be for Shaun as my car is already tuned by him: would he be able to dial my tune in with cams by just datalogging?

Yes, he has access to the appropriate cam timing files to get you set up on Comp Stage 3's with a full 50 VCT sweep. He and Adam at Revolution Auto can get you set up as they coordinate together on many tuning files. Adam spent many hours dialing in the full sweep stage 3 combo, and I must acknowledge his credit. Dialing in VCT on a dyno remotely or at Shaun's/Adam's shops would be the best bet for this as each combo is different. Hope that helps.

 

[az20115.0]

Well, I'll keep you all posted then..
JPC told me they have 500whp cars with sealed coyote engines and race fuel.. I'm running their long tubes and their tune right now and I love it!. The car is a monster! I love their service too. Justin is awesome to deal with, absolutely the nicest guy out there.. I can't say enough good things about them...
But
I will finish up with AED because I really want to get the car on the dyno with the tuner there, and a drive from AZ to Meryland is not gonna work.. Plus, Shaun knows his $###..

I just wish there were more people out there going NA with these cars..

 

[SmokeGreyHatch]

Well, I'll keep you all posted then..
JPC told me they have 500whp cars with sealed coyote engines and race fuel.. I'm running their long tubes and their tune right now and I love it!. The car is a monster! I love their service too. Justin is awesome to deal with, absolutely the nicest guy out there.. I can't say enough good things about them...
But
I will finish up with AED because I really want to get the car on the dyno with the tuner there, and a drive from AZ to Meryland is not gonna work.. Plus, Shaun knows his $###..

I just wish there were more people out there going NA with these cars..

You have to remember their 500 rwhp (think it was 495 if I recall) was through a REM treated, proshifted T5 (5th removed), trick carbon fiber D/S, super light 9", lightened and REM treated gears, gun drilled and lightened axles, drag brakes, drag wheels, etc. That car was on FTW fuel and probably had less than 10% loss through the drivetrain. Engine proabably made 530-540 at the flywheel. Think they weighed 2800 with driver to get it in the high 9's at 132-133. Not comparable to a MT-82 2011-2013 pig. JPC (Justin, Eric, and Kevin MacDonald) really know their stuff as well. Pick your poison, they are all great.

 

[Sean@LethalPerformance]

Quick question for you SmokeGrey, is a $640+ MAF 123/140mm sensor necessary for this build if I plan on using the frpp intake, cj manifold and gt500 tb? it would suck if this is a necessity bc otherwise this project would have to be put on ice a little longer incoorperating cost of install and tuning..

 

[corysmach1]

Yes, he has access to the appropriate cam timing files to get you set up on Comp Stage 3's with a full 50 VCT sweep. He and Adam at Revolution Auto can get you set up as they coordinate together on many tuning files. Adam spent many hours dialing in the full sweep stage 3 combo, and I must acknowledge his credit. Dialing in VCT on a dyno remotely or at Shaun's/Adam's shops would be the best bet for this as each combo is different. Hope that helps.

Good to know...thanks!

 

[BLK2012GT]

And another thing. Heads are not a cost effective mod on an N/A car. They are worth 20-25 tops and only needed if going for 600 rwhp N/A. You can make 60-90 rwhp with cams alone.

Recipe for 550 rwhp:

Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
E85 Fuel

Recipe for 575 rwhp:

Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel

Recipe for 600 rwhp:

Valve job (back cut), light port on heads (stage 1-2)
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel

Hmmmmm how are you getting some of these numbers? That's hard to believe you can get 600 rwhp with just those mods NA. I have pretty much everything that can be done to a coyote NA and I make 535 on e85. Now I have the boss manifold not the CJ but I don't see me making another 50-75 rwhp by switching just the manifold.

 

[az20115.0]

Hmmmmm how are you getting some of these numbers? That's hard to believe you can get 600 rwhp with just those mods NA. I have pretty much everything that can be done to a coyote NA and I make 535 on e85. Now I have the boss manifold not the CJ but I don't see me making another 50-75 rwhp by switching just the manifold.

What is your parts list?

 

[BLK2012GT]

What is your parts list?

Ported heads, comp cams stage 3, 12.5:1 compression, ported boss manifold, accufab TB, amr 1 7/8 LT, off road x pipe, flow master outlaws AB, 60lbs injectors, e85. Plus I also have direct port nitrous outlet kit running a 300 shot.

 

[az20115.0]

Ported heads, comp cams stage 3, 12.5:1 compression, ported boss manifold, accufab TB, amr 1 7/8 LT, off road x pipe, flow master outlaws AB, 60lbs injectors, e85. Plus I also have direct port nitrous outlet kit running a 300 shot.

I have outlaws but replaced them with gt500 ABs for the fear of what it would sound like with my long tubes and off road x.. How does your car sound?

Do you think there is anything left in the Tune?? I can't imagine the CJ will give you a huge amount since your BOSS is already ported

 

[BLK2012GT]

I have outlaws but replaced them with gt500 ABs for the fear of what it would sound like with my long tubes and off road x.. How does your car sound?

Do you think there is anything left in the Tune?? I can't imagine the CJ will give you a huge amount since your BOSS is already ported

I like how it sounds but it does get a little bit loud at times. In the tune not really sure. The shop that did it said that's pretty much as good it will get. But I'm down here in TX where its hot and humid as shit. I'm sure if I went to florida or California my car would make more on the dyno. That's why I question those numbers he posted with those mods.

 

[BLK2012GT]

Now granted my pistons and rods are pretty heavy cause I'm spraying a big shot. I'm sure if I went with some light rods and pistons I would be in the 550-560 rwhp range.

 

[az20115.0]

I like how it sounds but it does get a little bit loud at times. In the tune not really sure. The shop that did it said that's pretty much as good it will get. But I'm down here in TX where its hot and humid as shit. I'm sure if I went to florida or California my car would make more on the dyno. That's why I question those numbers he posted with those mods.

Well, I believe those are with race fuel, extensive head work, and top notch tuning I imagine..

How is your bottom end power? Did you loose much?

 

[SmokeGreyHatch]

Quick question for you SmokeGrey, is a $640+ MAF 123/140mm sensor necessary for this build if I plan on using the frpp intake, cj manifold and gt500 tb? it would suck if this is a necessity bc otherwise this project would have to be put on ice a little longer incoorperating cost of install and tuning..

build a custom 4.5 inch tube and weld on a MAF slot. It is the best bang for the buck that won't limit the TB or drivability

 

[az20115.0]

BTW BLK GT, how are you liking those sportline springs? I had them in my 06 and hated the way they rode.. I spoke to Sam Strano (the man when it comes to suspension) because I want the slammed look but hate the ride of sportlines, and his solution was KW V3 coilovers, and that is exactly what I'm going to do.. We'll see how it goes I guess

 

[az20115.0]

build a custom 4.5 inch tube and weld on a MAF slot. It is the best bang for the buck that won't limit the TB or drivability

Does that mean you can run the same sensor?

 

[BLK2012GT]

Well, I believe those are with race fuel, extensive head work, and top notch tuning I imagine..

How is your bottom end power? Did you loose much?

I picked up quite a bit from the porting of the manifold and the tuning for the VCT.

 

[SmokeGreyHatch]

Hmmmmm how are you getting some of these numbers? That's hard to believe you can get 600 rwhp with just those mods NA. I have pretty much everything that can be done to a coyote NA and I make 535 on e85. Now I have the boss manifold not the CJ but I don't see me making another 50-75 rwhp by switching just the manifold.

How am I off? If you had the proper CJ intake, SCJ oval TB, 4.5" CAI that would net another 25-30 over your current boss combo and FTW is good for another 20-25 over E85. There is 585 without mentioning tuning. There is a lot of power dialing in the TiVCT and you have limiters in your combo with the stage three's. There are tricks of the trade in ignition timing alternating cylinders, fueling, etc that build power. Not to dicredit your efforts, by any means, but you have a lot of room yet in an already stout combo. You didn't need compression or heads to get your numbers. CJ intake, custom cams, and FTW would put you over 600 rwhp, especially at your compression. Looking forward to your track results, dyno bench racing is just that, too many variables (STD/SAE/Weather station/load bearing, etc).

 

[az20115.0]

I picked up quite a bit from the porting of the manifold and the tuning for the VCT.

So I take it the drivability is good?