CAMS/Smog in CA

[Willie]

I'm not going to speculate about the specifics of California smog testing because I do not know the facts, so I will only stick to the facts on tuning as an FYI to all that are interested. Tuning cams is very simple. Basically only two items that need addressing. 1) Fuel injector timing: The injector must fire on a closed intake valve. Using the timing events supplied with the new cam, this ONE event is changed. It is not a column, nor a table of parameters, but one constant. 2) ISC (Idle Speed Control). Because a hot cam flows more air, even at idle, the idle may become unstable and "hunt". If it does, the values for the ISC must be increased. That's it guys! So in a nutshell, your car with cams will run with the stock tune.

I can also share my personal experience with Arizona emissions and JDM's SS cams. I always go to the smog check station 10 minutes before they close (psychological ploy and there's virtually no other cars there). In Az., the OBDII check is plug and play. No under the hood inspections, no tailpipe sniffers, etc. All my error code functions are turned on in my tune. I always pass, even with a super loud exhaust and rough idle.

 

[RedVenom48]

They are definitey checking for calibration ID and ECU ID, i dont know how many times i need to say this. The SMOG computer checks calibration ID. I can say it more slowly for you Stanger if it helps.

If you have a tuner like Willie who can go into the stock tune file, make minor adjustments, change the CA enabling monitor parameters so that whats output passes and not change the calibration ID, then it could potentially pass. But then thats a felony in this state. Not my law, and i certainly hate this damn state because of it and all that CARB does to our community.

You could even have a Smog technician that doesnt have a clue as to what cams sound like, or that there is anything changed internally. But thats not every Smog tech or every station. Its a risk unless you know someone and even then you risk their Smog license. By and large if you have an after market tune it will get flagged and you will fail unless it expressely says 50 state, CA compliant or CARB approved.

Its one thing to have say an intake, pulley and tune, or a bigger blower, or an off road midpipe, or hell even nitrous. That stuff can easily be reverted to stock.

You want to recommend to OP to spend the time and money to have cams installed... knowing that it could be potentially failed until hes back to stock (more money) then im sure glad we arent friends. If it was an LS engine, fine, they arent all that bad to change out cams. But unless OP has experience himself or friends that install and degree quad cams into a Ford modular engine then its going to cost money.

OP, do as you please and best of luck. My professional recommendation is to stick to bolt ons and bolt on systems.

Stanger00, i know professional technicians offend you so im sorry.

 

[Willie]

Very well said, Lexustech48..!
I do have a question for you though. You stated to go into the stock tune file and make minor adjustments....... To me, that implies that California has unique ECU processor codes, not available in any other state. Is this true?

 

[Pribilof]

Big difference between letter of the law and the ability of CARB to check the validity of a tune... Or the ability of a tech to tell if you have a non-EO tune based on a visual inspection. We have a member posting that he passed while running E85.

How about someone with a stock car load up a canned, non CARB approved tunethat leaves all sensors active, go to the smog station and have them do a test. I'll bet you $100 that they pass.

They are definitey checking for calibration ID and ECU ID, i dont know how many times i need to say this. The SMOG computer checks calibration ID. I can say it more slowly for you Stanger if it helps.

If you have a tuner like Willie who can go into the stock tune file, make minor adjustments, change the CA enabling monitor parameters so that whats output passes and not change the calibration ID, then it could potentially pass. But then thats a felony in this state. Not my law, and i certainly hate this damn state because of it and all that CARB does to our community.

You could even have a Smog technician that doesnt have a clue as to what cams sound like, or that there is anything changed internally. But thats not every Smog tech or every station. Its a risk unless you know someone and even then you risk their Smog license. By and large if you have an after market tune it will get flagged and you will fail unless it expressely says 50 state, CA compliant or CARB approved.

Its one thing to have say an intake, pulley and tune, or a bigger blower, or an off road midpipe, or hell even nitrous. That stuff can easily be reverted to stock.

You want to recommend to OP to spend the time and money to have cams installed... knowing that it could be potentially failed until hes back to stock (more money) then im sure glad we arent friends. If it was an LS engine, fine, they arent all that bad to change out cams. But unless OP has experience himself or friends that install and degree quad cams into a Ford modular engine then its going to cost money.

OP, do as you please and best of luck. My professional recommendation is to stick to bolt ons and bolt on systems.

Stanger00, i know professional technicians offend you so im sorry.

 

[Stanger00]

They are definitey checking for calibration ID and ECU ID, i dont know how many times i need to say this. The SMOG computer checks calibration ID. I can say it more slowly for you Stanger if it helps.

If you have a tuner like Willie who can go into the stock tune file, make minor adjustments, change the CA enabling monitor parameters so that whats output passes and not change the calibration ID, then it could potentially pass. But then thats a felony in this state. Not my law, and i certainly hate this damn state because of it and all that CARB does to our community.

Stanger00, i know professional technicians offend you so im sorry.

Calibration ID is just a number of an assigned program from the manufacture. The program within that Calibration ID is what I would call proprietary information and secrete to each manufacture. So, I doubt CARB has any data to know what lines of data have been changed. Now, the questions revolves is if an SCT tune changes the Calibration ID or if it doesn't. If the Calibration ID remains the same but the program is adjusted then a pass is granted.

What I don't understand is how California has the ability to read past the Calibration ID to know that specific parameters have changed from the factory parameters. This is a lot of processing power and a very complex database to store all variations of ECUs, Calibration IDs and all of the programs that run within each of those units for every vehicle manufacture.

Explain how CARB goes into reading each line of data and compares it to others within a 5 minute OBDII hookup....

Very well said, Lexustech48..!
I do have a question for you though. You stated to go into the stock tune file and make minor adjustments....... To me, that implies that California has unique ECU processor codes, not available in any other state. Is this true?

This is what I would like to know too.


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[69b302]

I think lexustech is getting at cars with changed strategies(not common for gt500s from my experience).

 

[Snoopy49]

Explain how CARB goes into reading each line of data and compares it to others within a 5 minute OBDII hookup....

This is what I would like to know too.

Is it possible they use a checksum code to verify the programing? This way they wouldn't have to verify the programming line by line.

 

[Steve@TF]

ive dealt with this on my rides. actually, i think only my gt500 with the new all monitors bs. that was a pita. i just have a pulley and lund tune and it would not pass. egr and cat monitors would not turn on. lund sent me different tunes to try and nada. i figured out my high flow catted x pipe was causing the cat monitor to fail so i put the stocker back on. that worked. but egr would not turn on no matter what. i ended up putting stock cai and tune back in and then it passed.

for my harley truck, its pullied and has an RET tune. its due for smog now. so that means its been two years since i had it smogged which i believe was before the all monitors rule now. i use one of these obd monitors with "dash command" app to check to see if my monitors are on. i need to go check on my harley to see if theyre on. if not, ill probably just have it "passed". sucks because i plan on selling it.

 

[devilish64]

If you can afford to put cams in your car..... you can afford the $3-500 it would take to have a smog tech illegally smog your car and then you don't have to worry about it for another two years. Not highly uncommon for highly modified vehicle's here in ca

 

[Dinosgt]

FWIW I will share my experience with the great socialist state of California:

Brought the car into inspection station BONE STOCK except for JLT Catch can on the passenger side. BONE STOCK. Inspection station was in Orange County in Socal (vs in the boonies)...

Pulled into the station - tech walks out while car was idling and says: "young man (I am 50+ BTW), aint no way that there 've-HICK-le' will pass with that loud exhaust on it." I have him crawl under the car to prove the exhaust is stock. Ok...

He opens the hood ... "this aftermarket intake wont pass". I have his side kick GOOGLE pictures of the motor to prove its BONE stock. OK...

He runs the computer check - all good. OOPS - "but what's that thing there?" pointing to the catch can. I explain its function, and most importantly that it wont affect emissions at all - in fact, it may clean it up further from catch oil entering combustion chamber. So I am a great citizen as my goal is to even further clean the air in the great state of California.

....FAILED TEST.

I took it all the friggin way home, slapped on the stock PCV valve line - took it back.

...PASSED test.

God bless all you folks that get away with mods in California, but my experience indicates its a tough hill to climb. Cams seem to me to be a real tough one, barring a friendly inspector, regardless of the monitor check results.

End of story .... FWIW I moved out of state...

 

[CO Mack]

California does check for factory tunes in OBDII cars, that's the whole point of the scan. They don't need to scan to see a CEL. Not sure why all the arguing.

Different counties get different SMOG inspections. https://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/Program_Map.pdf

Unfortunately Sacramento is an "enhanced" county. It's not worth the hassle in CA, just get EO parts. Even if your cams pass this year, that' doesn't mean they will in two years. Just get a blower...

 

[69b302]

California does check for factory tunes in OBDII cars, that's the whole point of the scan. They don't need to scan to see a CEL. Not sure why all the arguing.

Different counties get different SMOG inspections. https://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/Program_Map.pdf

Unfortunately Sacramento is an "enhanced" county. It's not worth the hassle in CA, just get EO parts. Even if your cams pass this year, that' doesn't mean they will in two years. Just get a blower...

There are aftermarket EO tunes that are 50 state legal. Are you saying Roush, Whipple, and Ford racing are wrong?

 

[RedVenom48]

When they are 50 state legal, they are CARB cerified.

Example: A 50 state tune (read not the factory tune) is found in the ECU. It is on file in the SMOG database as certified for CA use by CARB, its ok and passes.

OEM or EO certified is on for CA

 

[Stanger00]

California does check for factory tunes in OBDII cars, that's the whole point of the scan. They don't need to scan to see a CEL. Not sure why all the arguing.

I completely understand how the process works.

Please tell us if the custom tune changes the ECU ID and Calibration ID assigned? This will tell us if it is true that a tune will fail the 'scan' portion of the inspection.

When they are 50 state legal, they are CARB cerified.

Example: A 50 state tune (read not the factory tune) is found in the ECU. It is on file in the SMOG database as certified for CA use by CARB, its ok and passes.

Must not know the answer to my question to you in an earlier post or you would answered.


Again:
Does a SCT, diablo or HP tune change the ECU ID VIN ID or Calibration ID that is assigned to the DMV database? I'm not asking about the particular changes to injector, MAF or other multiple changes that occur within the assigned tune.

I'll wait for your professional flat rate mechanic answer.


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[RedVenom48]

Ecu id is programmed to the ecu unit itself. Handheld tuner wont be able to change that, only a Ford IDS tool. ECU must also be programmed with As Built data to funtion properly.

The calibration id is what is assigned to the factory tune or CARB EO tune. From my understanding simply naming a non OEM or EO tune the calibration id of a factory tune will not allow it to pass. Handheld flash tuner can in no way alter the database from which the calibration is cross referenced. Data from the tune written for the car can only be changed by tuning software that a tuner will use. Nothing you have access to as the end user of the flash tuner can change the content of the factory calibration. You can download it to the tuner when you pair the debice. you can even change input data ( gearong idle speed etc), but the actual instruction and code in the tune cannot be changed by just the flash tuner.

My suggestion is that if you have more questions, you need to contact CARB. All I've been able to say about this subject is here in this thread, with mutiple people confirming it or have real world experiences failing trying to get a non CARB tune through a smog inspection. Some have had success, majority havent.

Gods save you if you ever have to have recall work done. One of us evil flat rate soul stealers might have to *gasp* work on your car and fix it.

 

[69b302]

I am a user of both HP tuners and SCT Pro Racer and have access to their users forums. I did some searches and found a single thread discussing CA pulling CVN(calibration verification numbers). It did not sound like they matched it against some master database, but rather building a database to see if the CVN changes. CVN is basically a checksum of the tune, as others have said. The moderator of the forum brushed off any concern, and no threads on either forum indicating use of their sw causing widespread failures, at this point. There are many parameters in the calibration which can be changed legally, like gear ratio, so not sure where this is going, if anywhere. My interest in this thread is due to NY's tendency to eventually follow what CA does.

 

[Stanger00]

Ecu id is programmed to the ecu unit itself. Handheld tuner wont be able to change that, only a Ford IDS tool. ECU must also be programmed with As Built data to funtion properly.

I know and understand this and I'm only speaking to tuning software making adjustments to the ECU to fine tune parameters to help the car run better with modifications.

Only special equipment can install manufacture approved data to a ECU.

The calibration id is what is assigned to the factory tune or CARB EO tune. From my understanding simply naming a non OEM or EO tune the calibration id of a factory tune will not allow it to pass. Handheld flash tuner can in no way alter the database from which the calibration is cross referenced. Data from the tune written for the car can only be changed by tuning software that a tuner will use. Nothing you have access to as the end user of the flash tuner can change the content of the factory calibration. You can download it to the tuner when you pair the debice. you can even change input data ( gearong idle speed etc), but the actual instruction and code in the tune cannot be changed by just the flash tuner.

This is the thing though and my question. Tunes adjust CARB approved Calibration ID WITHOUT changing the Calibration ID name itself (if this makes sense). The data is changed within the Calibration ID and this is where I doubt CARB has the ability to check the minute changes that occur within that Calibration ID.

A lot of data would have to be recorded and studied to adjust for variations. Meaning they would have to have standard rates of deviations without being ambiguous when a machine picks up numbers or data points that don't match the manufactures approved CARB standard.

Gods save you if you ever have to have recall work done. One of us evil flat rate soul stealers might have to *gasp* work on your car and fix it.

Well, recalls have to be done and no issues with that. Would just have to deal with service advisors and sales people calling me 2-3 times a month for a couple months to try and sell me things I don't need or want.

I am a user of both HP tuners and SCT Pro Racer and have access to their users forums. I did some searches and found a single thread discussing CA pulling CVN(calibration verification numbers). It did not sound like they matched it against some master database, but rather building a database to see if the CVN changes. CVN is basically a checksum of the tune, as others have said. The moderator of the forum brushed off any concern, and no threads on either forum indicating use of thier sw causing widespread failures, at this point. There are many parameters in the calibration which can be changed legally, like gear ratio, so not sure where this is going, if anywhere.

Thanks for the information and that does make sense to me that they would randomly be collecting data to attempt to go further with improving their smog inspections and eliminating aftermarket electronic and mechanical changes to registered vehicles.

Hopefully it stops there, since a lot of federal funds will dry up for these types of studies.


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[CO Mack]

There are aftermarket EO tunes that are 50 state legal. Are you saying Roush, Whipple, and Ford racing are wrong?

No, I'm saying you don't want to do anything without an EO cert...as I said in my post. I of course realize there are EO approved tunes.

I had an SCT Tuner. They flagged it from a scan (before they spun the rollers). I went home, flashed it back to stock and passed. I do not know how or why the tool caught me. I know only that that is why they went from just looking for a CEL to scanning the ECU. For diesel trucks all they do is hit the OBDII connector to look for mods.

Y'all have fun arguing about it, I packed my shit up and left that place for a reason.

 

[RedVenom48]

Im out as soon as i can get a job not in California. Over this state.

 

[Tob]

He runs the computer check - all good. OOPS - "but what's that thing there?" pointing to the catch can. I explain its function, and most importantly that it wont affect emissions at all - in fact, it may clean it up further from catch oil entering combustion chamber. So I am a great citizen as my goal is to even further clean the air in the great state of California.

....FAILED TEST.

I took it all the friggin way home, slapped on the stock PCV valve line - took it back.

...PASSED test.

Owner added oil separators are legal in the state of California and are classified as a legal add-on that falls under Appendix G "Aftermarket Parts Verification Guide lines."

Scroll down to the second page (G2), second from the bottom on the chart under "Other." Furthermore, there is no Executive Order necessary to prove legality for gasoline, hybrid, or diesel engines.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/APPENDIX G final 12-2009.pdf