cam timing (tune) question

[jakhammer]

As gay as this might sound, I was wondering if anyone has had a tune, or if it can me done with a tune, the cam timing changed for a rough loping idle. seems to me this should be completely possible with changing the LSA. just something I have been kicking around. Thought I would ask.

Chris

 

[Torch10th]

Yes, it's possible. I don't think you'll find anybody that's done it though. The fact is, that lopey idle you get is merely the sound of compromise.

The TiVCT is designed to run cams that produce big top end power while still maintaining good road manners and low speed torque that you otherwise sacrifice with a high duration, narrow centerline cam.

 

[jakhammer]

Yes, it's possible. I don't think you'll find anybody that's done it though. The fact is, that lopey idle you get is merely the sound of compromise.

The TiVCT is designed to run cams that produce big top end power while still maintaining good road manners and low speed torque that you otherwise sacrifice with a high duration, narrow centerline cam.

Thus the beauty of only having the LSA set for a lopey idle at idle. it could go back to normal function after say 800 or 900 rpm. you wouldnt have to give up anything. have the sound without the cost. it would be interesting to hear what it would sound like.

 

[cidsamuth]

Over on the S197 forum, some guy asked this question. He got torched by a couple of folks who thought it was "ricey" because it was fake.

An American Muscle tuner said it was possible, but that you would lose some power.

EDIT: Here's the link to the thread, though you have to be signed in to read it: [ame="http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51711"]WWW.S197FORUM.COM[/ame]

 

[JL-KA]

It's an interesting idea.

 

[snkchmr 1]

Im not a fan of that forum.

 

[jakhammer]

while im not sure how the tables are set in the computer, i dont see how you would lose power (other than when the timing is locked) if you let the LSA go back to being adjusted at either A. a defined rpm or B. a defined throttle position. the cam timing can go from 1 extreme to the other in 1 crank rotation so you would never notice the difference. BUT, I am no tuning expert, its just me trying to think it out with logic and facts and how "i think" it works. seems like all you would sacrifice is the power at idle to whenever you let the timing go back to being adjustable. losing a bit at ilde to 1000 rpm seems acceptable. you wouldnt see it on the track as long as you launch above that rpm. you might notice it while trying to take off slowly on the street.... hmmmm

 

[jsteve5050]

The BOSS 302 will have the TracKey feature that does this very thing.


More power isn’t all the software can do, either. TracKey also eliminates the ever-frustrating skip-shift feature and gives you a nice, lumpy, racecar idle. You also get the two-stage launch control system lifted from the Mustang Cobra Jet drag car, which allows you to tell the computer exactly what RPM you want to launch at, then simply drop the clutch. The software even works with Ford’s MyKey, in case junior happens to borrow the keys while you’re at dinner.



Read more: Ford Reveals TracKey Software Upgrade for Boss 302, Ups Output to 444 Horsepower - WOT

 

[Shaun@AED]

We are working on it currently over email tunes with customers, but it's time consuming this way.
The next 5.0 that comes down for mods I'll get a lopey idle tune dialed in.

 

[jakhammer]

We are working on it currently over email tunes with customers, but it's time consuming this way.
The next 5.0 that comes down for mods I'll get a lopey idle tune dialed in.

Cant wait to see the results!

 

[ViciousJay]

subscribing

 

[brady_f]

Subscribed!

 

[cidsamuth]

Im not a fan of that forum.

I, too, would love the ability to get the lopey idle. In my mind, if you're buying 3 tunes anyway, why not have one of them with this option?

 

[Sc0tty2h0ttie]

Im not a fan of that forum.

+1

but I am looking for cam manipulation, but not at idle. On my nitrous tune i dont want the cams to increase overlap at higher rpm. wider lca on the cams will make more power on boost or spray usually.

when i went to the dyno i lost 64hp from 3500 to 7k and 36 hp another run. bottle pressures were run high and low. number at 7k were within 1hp. So only thing i can thing of is the tivct. because n/a it made peak at 6800 so the intake is flowing enough, to not move my peak numbers down by 3400rpm. 1000 i could see but not that much.

anyone doing this yet?

 

[RSKtakR]

subscribed.

 

[Shaun@AED]

+1

but I am looking for cam manipulation, but not at idle. On my nitrous tune i dont want the cams to increase overlap at higher rpm. wider lca on the cams will make more power on boost or spray usually.

when i went to the dyno i lost 64hp from 3500 to 7k and 36 hp another run. bottle pressures were run high and low. number at 7k were within 1hp. So only thing i can thing of is the tivct. because n/a it made peak at 6800 so the intake is flowing enough, to not move my peak numbers down by 3400rpm. 1000 i could see but not that much.

anyone doing this yet?

That's the best part about the TiVCT.
Gearing the ICL and ECL (and therefore LSA) towards each motor setups needs.

It's time consuming and requiers a tuner that knows camshaft design as well as tuning. A rare thing. I only know of one a few around the country.

I spent ~4hrs on a customers car playing with the TiVCT on an all-motor setup with great results, but Nitrous would require not only significant dyno time with a great tuner, but consistant nitrous pressure and a lot of nitrous.

The software doesn't do cam timing changes as LSA....you change Intake Closing and Exhaust Opening. Based on lobe duration (anybody know this yet?) you get the overlap. It's a bit backwards in the software, and therefore can be confusing and difficult since you can't simply design a camshaft for nitrous and program it into the computer....as a cam designer I'd love to be able to do this, but I can not until we know the actual ford cam specs. So, all we can do at this point is custom TiVCT tuning manipulating these points and verifying the results until we get a base TiVCT program for a given setup.

And even minor exhaust changes will result in big TiVCT changes for extracting maximum power at all RPM's.

 

[ViciousJay]

That's the best part about the TiVCT.
Gearing the ICL and ECL (and therefore LSA) towards each motor setups needs.

It's time consuming and requiers a tuner that knows camshaft design as well as tuning. A rare thing. I only know of one a few around the country.

I spent ~4hrs on a customers car playing with the TiVCT on an all-motor setup with great results, but Nitrous would require not only significant dyno time with a great tuner, but consistant nitrous pressure and a lot of nitrous.

The software doesn't do cam timing changes as LSA....you change Intake Closing and Exhaust Opening. Based on lobe duration (anybody know this yet?) you get the overlap. It's a bit backwards in the software, and therefore can be confusing and difficult since you can't simply design a camshaft for nitrous and program it into the computer....as a cam designer I'd love to be able to do this, but I can not until we know the actual ford cam specs. So, all we can do at this point is custom TiVCT tuning manipulating these points and verifying the results until we get a base TiVCT program for a given setup.

And even minor exhaust changes will result in big TiVCT changes for extracting maximum power at all RPM's.

And this is the very reason why i wait for mods and such....

 

[Sc0tty2h0ttie]

That's the best part about the TiVCT.
Gearing the ICL and ECL (and therefore LSA) towards each motor setups needs.

It's time consuming and requiers a tuner that knows camshaft design as well as tuning. A rare thing. I only know of one a few around the country.

I spent ~4hrs on a customers car playing with the TiVCT on an all-motor setup with great results, but Nitrous would require not only significant dyno time with a great tuner, but consistant nitrous pressure and a lot of nitrous.

The software doesn't do cam timing changes as LSA....you change Intake Closing and Exhaust Opening. Based on lobe duration (anybody know this yet?) you get the overlap. It's a bit backwards in the software, and therefore can be confusing and difficult since you can't simply design a camshaft for nitrous and program it into the computer....as a cam designer I'd love to be able to do this, but I can not until we know the actual ford cam specs. So, all we can do at this point is custom TiVCT tuning manipulating these points and verifying the results until we get a base TiVCT program for a given setup.

And even minor exhaust changes will result in big TiVCT changes for extracting maximum power at all RPM's.

we know it makes huge power at 3500-4k. why not lock them down at those perimeters and start there. then see what happens, hopefully it will carry those number like on a normal push rod car. with only a few ponies lost due to the falling bottle pressure.

 

[Sc0tty2h0ttie]

not F'n 64 which really makes me mad! lol

 

[Shaun@AED]

not F'n 64 which really makes me mad! lol

Did you verify TQ managment was not pulling power?