Buying a car from dealer, interesting situation, major advice required!

[rust0r]

I'll try to keep this short, it's a grade A "car salesman" story:

Pull up to a dealer (Honda) and notice a car on the lot listed at $13,995. 05 Civic SI (GF is buying for herself), 85,000KM / 52,000 MILES (it's canadian so the prices are obviously somewhat inflated keep in mind)

Salesman does his meet and greet, nice enough guy, tosses us the keys and tells us "I have a reduced price waiting once you get back after your drive".

We got for a drive, he tells us the car is actually going for $11,995 and that we should be ecstatic!

I come home to start my investigative work on the car, only to find on their website along with autotrader, etc that the car is listed at $10,995.... $1,000 less than he offered it to us for (he even started talking monthly payment figures, etc) :fm:

Google cache is showing that almost 1 month ago the car was on their site listed for the same amount it is now ($10,995)

Carproof report was done over a year ago, he BS'd and said that may have been one that was handed in from the previous owner, etc. In looking over the service records, I can determine the car came into the their possession about a year ago, if not longer but they have been wanting WAY too much for it since it's in great shape. Pictures on their website are from LAST fall as trees that currently have a shitload of leaves on them now, are bare in the pictures LOL

I'm would appreciate some tips on how to approach this from veterans of the car buying and selling world!

My current plan is to be nice and polite about it, ask him on what the price of the car is once more, then bring up the website listing it for a grand less. I can almost guarantee he will tell me "they just changed the price and he wasn't aware"; at which point I'm going to show him my print out from google cache showing that it's been that way for just shy of a month and ask him to cut the BS. He clearly was able to ascertain that she loved the car, and probably thought we were a dumb young couple (25)

By then I will have a carfax which will also prove just how long they have been sitting on the car, etc.

Like most dealers they charge a BS $300 fee for some "VIN etching" security program which I'm not having her pay

She definitely isn't paying $10,995, not after that whole BS lie with the price, and the fact they have had it for over a year, I'm sure they are motivated to get rid of it.

What is the best angle to play on this situation? How should I approach it, what tips / strategies should I use for lowing the price given that he tried to swindle us and the length they have had it in their possession ? What price would you suggest I go after as I'm not sure how much room there actually is on a used car that they list around $11-12 K

Much appreciated :beer:

Edit: CLIFF'S NOTES

I case that was too long (though there are many relevant details above):

1. Dealer offered car to us $11,995 down from $13,995 window sticker *wow deal*...
2. Got home, found it on their website for $10,995, has been that way for almost a month now
3. Car has been in their possession for over a year
4. Help on using the information above to negotiate a better price

 

[Njc0las]

I don't understand what you want help with. Tell him you saw the cheaper price. :shrug:

 

[jerrad]

Offer them 8500 and ask why they haven't sold it in a year.
They want to get rid of it if it hasn't sold in over a year.

 

[rust0r]

I don't understand what you want help with. Tell him you saw the cheaper price. :shrug:

There are people on who here who have VAST knowledge and experience in both selling used cars and buying used cars. Obviously there are tips and ways of dealing with these situations, putting a certain light on the events that transpired (given that he was fully willing to let us sign for 11,995), and the length of time on the lot.

Basically I'm looking for how people who are in the industry suggest I handle it, or people who know what they're doing when negotiating the price of a car @ a dealer.

I'm not an idiot by any means but I'm not about to let my inexperience in this area cost my GF more money than it has to if I can get some help

 

[thomas91169]

The internet price may not have included TTL fees while the in-person number may have been their out the door price.

 

[Wishing4Cobra]

The internet price may not have included TTL fees while the in-person number may have been their out the door price.

I HIGHLY doubt most dealers will give you an OTD price on most of their cars, new or used.

If it was listed at 10,999 a few months ago, just offer them that same price OTD and see what they say. If you are seriously interested and ready to buy tell them that and if they keep on going back and forth with you just give them your final offer and if they say "no" leave them your contact info and let the dealer know if they change their mind to give you a call.

 

[rust0r]

The internet price may not have included TTL fees while the in-person number may have been their out the door price.

Na, both prices are +fees and taxes

It's a clear cut case that he thought he would make the commission off another $1,000

 

[Stroszek]

The fact that it's been on their lot for a year or more would send me the other way.

 

[Njc0las]

There are people on who here who have VAST knowledge and experience in both selling used cars and buying used cars. Obviously there are tips and ways of dealing with these situations, putting a certain light on the events that transpired (given that he was fully willing to let us sign for 11,995), and the length of time on the lot.

Basically I'm looking for how people who are in the industry suggest I handle it, or people who know what they're doing when negotiating the price of a car @ a dealer.

I'm not an idiot by any means but I'm not about to let my inexperience in this area cost my GF more money than it has to if I can get some help

I think you're making a way bigger deal out of it than it really is. :shrug::shrug::shrug: I'm interested to see how it all turns out.

 

[rust0r]

The fact that it's been on their lot for a year or more would send me the other way.

I initially thought the same thing, however what is there possibly wrong with the car that EVERY OTHER PERSON that has looked it has found out about it, that I cannot find out through car fax, car proof and having my shop look it over? I'm drastically more inclined than 95% of people out there buying this kind of car. a 14K sticker on this car will drive anyone away with the amount of new cars you can get for just over that price these days.

Am I missing any sort of method to determine something that might be wrong with the car? Aside from the usual reports to check and having my shop take a look at it ?

I think you're making a way bigger deal out of it than it really is. :shrug::shrug::shrug: I'm interested to see how it all turns out.

Starting out a buying process with a salesman who just tried to pull a fast one isn't exactly something that I take lightly.

As stated I am asking for those with experience in this matter to provide insight and advice, so please just sit and see how it turns out as opposed to downplaying my post. If it doesn't interest you, move along.

 

[thomas91169]

Na, both prices are +fees and taxes

It's a clear cut case that he thought he would make the commission off another $1,000

then **** it, show them the old ad, offer them $10k OTD and call it a day. If they balk and say no, walk.

you cant blame a salesman for trying to make $$$$ not only for himself but his company. He doesnt know you dont know better. Just the way it works; if you were in his shoes, youd do the same. Not everyone knows how to run back to the innernetz and research.

 

[F8LBITEva]

He didnt pull a "fast one" the salesman makes commission off the final price of the car. Hes not going to shake your hand and say "hey im going to sell you this car at the lowest price possible just so we may break even and screw myself on commission". I do think you have the advantage knowing what you do about the car. Good luck

 

[Camaro_94]

I'd prob talk to another salesmen about the car. I hate shady people. I know theyre trying to make a comission, but dont lie!

I'd go in and offer $9K. If he cant take it, go to a different salesmen and talk to them instead.

 

[rust0r]

then **** it, show them the old ad, offer them $10k OTD and call it a day. If they balk and say no, walk.

you cant blame a salesman for trying to make $$$$ not only for himself but his company. He doesnt know you dont know better. Just the way it works; if you were in his shoes, youd do the same. Not everyone knows how to run back to the innernetz and research.

He didnt pull a "fast one" the salesman makes commission off the final price of the car. Hes not going to shake your hand and say "hey im going to sell you this car at the lowest price possible just so we may break even and screw myself on commission". I do think you have the advantage knowing what you do about the car. Good luck

I completely understand his position and the commission side of things, however when the price is listed in 3 different places and he is giving us a price HIGHER than what is listed out to the general public, that's simply bad business.

I'm sure if you guys went to buy a hamburger and the pimply faced kid told you it would be $8 and upon walking out, you saw it was actually $4 on the sign, you would have an issue. The example is applicable for anything, now imagine its $1,000 difference and you're being taken advantage of...

 

[spitin venom]

Sometimes the internet manager will put cars online at a special discounted price and the salespeople do not know about it because they are two different depts. I'm not trying to defend the salesman but it does happen regularly. More than likely he is trying to make a little more money on you assuming that you didn't know what the ad price was. You can't blame the guy or take it personally. He is just doing his job/listening to the manager. You would do the same thing if the tables were turned.

If the car has been there for that long you should offer him (at the highest) the ad price out the door. When a car is sitting on a lot that long I am pretty sure he is probably losing money even at the advertised price. Don't be surprised if they don't go down on the price that much...

As far as inspecting the Honda and looking for redflags that there is a problem...

Honda puts a VIN sticker on all the panels of the car. If it is missing then the part has been replaced or there has been bodywork done.

Honda certifies cars that are 2005 or newer and less than 79,999 miles (in America. not sure about Canada). This car should qualify. If it is not certified then that is another redflag. Honda will not let the dealer certify a car if there has been in a major accident or a branded title. Honda actually inspects the certified inventory at dealerships.

Check the mounting bolts around the car. Example: If you open the hood and the mounting bolts look like they are tampered with then there has been bodywork done.

Check the paint for "fish eyes"

I can go on and on with things to look for.

I would be cautious buying a car that has sat on a lot for that long. There is a reason why it has not sold...

 

[thomas91169]

I'm sure if you guys went to buy a hamburger and the pimply faced kid told you it would be $8 and upon walking out, you saw it was actually $4 on the sign, you would have an issue. The example is applicable for anything, now imagine its $1,000 difference and you're being taken advantage of...

would be more accurate if that pimple faced kid made commission off of his sale, and you didnt notice the $4 sign upon entering, and he upsold it and you bought it for $8. Thats called being a salesman. Obviously had you bought it for $8, at the time he made you think it was worth it, and you would be none the wiser upon eating it and leaving, and you seeing it really for sale on a sign posted outside for $4, well then thats just youre fault for not being aware; you cant go back after buying a car and go "hey, i saw it for cheaper after i got home, refund me the difference!" youll get laughed out of the dealership. Buyer Beware. Do your homework first, not last.

Now that you have seen its price listed elsewhere, use that to haggle/negotiate down. Dont blame it on the salesman, he likely didnt know or was just doing his job and trying to get his commission and making the dealership a sale.

BTW in yesterdays economy cars would either be sold to another dealership or auctioned after 30 days. In today's, its not unheard of to see a car at the same dealership for months on end.

 

[Screw-Rice]

Go to the used car manager. Tell them the situation, and that you'll pay $9500 OTD today. If he says no, than bail. Go buy a car elsewhere and swing back by the dealer and show him the sale he could have had.

Somewhat similar issue happened with my brother on a year old charger (had like 5k miles on it), salesman dicked him around. Spoke to the manager, who did the same. He went and bought a new one for the same price and swung back by the original dealer. The used manager called him for a few weeks to see if he was happy, and wanted the original one.

 

[rust0r]

Sometimes the internet manager will put cars online at a special discounted price and the salespeople do not know about it because they are two different depts. I'm not trying to defend the salesman but it does happen regularly. More than likely he is trying to make a little more money on you assuming that you didn't know what the ad price was. You can't blame the guy or take it personally. He is just doing his job/listening to the manager. You would do the same thing if the tables were turned.

If the car has been there for that long you should offer him (at the highest) the ad price out the door. When a car is sitting on a lot that long I am pretty sure he is probably losing money even at the advertised price. Don't be surprised if they don't go down on the price that much...

As far as inspecting the Honda and looking for redflags that there is a problem...

Honda puts a VIN sticker on all the panels of the car. If it is missing then the part has been replaced or there has been bodywork done.

Honda certifies cars that are 2005 or newer and less than 79,999 miles (in America. not sure about Canada). This car should qualify. If it is not certified then that is another redflag. Honda will not let the dealer certify a car if there has been in a major accident or a branded title. Honda actually inspects the certified inventory at dealerships.

Check the mounting bolts around the car. Example: If you open the hood and the mounting bolts look like they are tampered with then there has been bodywork done.

Check the paint for "fish eyes"

I can go on and on with things to look for.

I would be cautious buying a car that has sat on a lot for that long. There is a reason why it has not sold...

Thanks for this post, many helpful points :beer:

It is a Certified Honda, comes with an extended warranty up to 120,000 KM (80,000 miles). So you're saying Honda as a corporation will not let dealers affix "Certified" status to a car that has been in a major accident?

Are there any other obvious things I can look for that you can suggest I check for?

What is your opinion on if I was to get a car fax+car proof and have my shop look at it, and it all came back with a clean bill of health? Would you still have reservations about it? I understand a car sitting on a lot for a year can because for concern but there has to be a red flag that jumps out immediately if it hasn't been sold due to damage etc.

Based on the sticker of $13,995 I'm largely guessing the price has scared everyone away (since it should be more along the lines of 10/11).

That is a tough price point up here, too many incentives with new economy cars that you can pick up for $15K with 0 KM and a full warranty, granted they are a bit more "boxy" than a civic is, but most people buying a civic simply want something reliable. 14K is an extremely hard sell, the location of the dealership makes it prime for people to simply stop by at night and look without being bothered (window sticker say 14K).

Again, I really appreciate your post

 

[rust0r]

would be more accurate if that pimple faced kid made commission off of his sale, and you didnt notice the $4 sign upon entering, and he upsold it and you bought it for $8. Thats called being a salesman. Obviously had you bought it for $8, at the time he made you think it was worth it, and you would be none the wiser upon eating it and leaving, and you seeing it really for sale on a sign posted outside for $4, well then thats just youre fault for not being aware; you cant go back after buying a car and go "hey, i saw it for cheaper after i got home, refund me the difference!" youll get laughed out of the dealership. Buyer Beware. Do your homework first, not last.

Now that you have seen its price listed elsewhere, use that to haggle/negotiate down. Dont blame it on the salesman, he likely didnt know or was just doing his job and trying to get his commission and making the dealership a sale.

BTW in yesterdays economy cars would either be sold to another dealership or auctioned after 30 days. In today's, its not unheard of to see a car at the same dealership for months on end.

I definitely understand where you are coming from, he is simply trying to earn his cut and if he can make me think it's worth $11,995 then why not. I guess my point is just that it's a pretty ignorant/dangerous game to play given how many people look for info on the internet, etc. It's not exactly like he's in a profession where people trust their unrivaled opinion lol.

To me, though it's legal, it is definitely unethical from a business standpoint. Offer it at the $10,995 and don't budge, tell me some story how some people offer it at $11,995 but you're cutting right to the bottom line, etc. I can't stand these shady practices, regardless if they are the industry norm.

BTW: I just KNEW making that analogy someone was going to get into the technicalities of it rather than take it at face value lol

Thanks for the tip regarding it's length of stay on the lot :beer:

Go to the used car manager. Tell them the situation, and that you'll pay $9500 OTD today. If he says no, than bail. Go buy a car elsewhere and swing back by the dealer and show him the sale he could have had.

Somewhat similar issue happened with my brother on a year old charger (had like 5k miles on it), salesman dicked him around. Spoke to the manager, who did the same. He went and bought a new one for the same price and swung back by the original dealer. The used manager called him for a few weeks to see if he was happy, and wanted the original one.

I'm definitely leaning towards the whole route of bringing up the price I saw, length it's been on the lot and giving him bottom line price, not looking to spend 3 hours there getting pissed off and having him run to his manager for an additional $50 at a time.

That's hilarious, gotta love when you can stick it to people like that.

Once my dad was at Futureshop (Bestbuy's Canadian company, we also have best buy), he was getting frustrated with an associate that wasn't helping him with a product and told them "Nevermind, you just lost my business, I'll go to Best Buy and purchase it", the associate replied "It's alright, we're owned by them".

Obviously the employee doesn't realize that his hours and employment depend on the products purchased at his store, and not Best Buy. However, it was still hilarious to hear how stupid my dad felt.

 

[SonicDTR]

Why are you paying more than 3k for a civic??

jk, but dont read too much into him fluffing the price. Its his paycheck and he has a job to do. Tell them you seen it for sale for less and you know its been there for over a year.

I never play games with salesmen, I tell them what I know about that car, I know what they're worth, and anything else. They usually quit BS'n me at that point. But I always tell them I know its their paycheck, and a small paycheck is better than no paycheck