BMW 335i vs Mustang 5.0 GT

[Grabber]

I think Boostinwild means 525hp at the crank which is about 450-460rwhp for an 03/04 Cobra. Which would theorectically on paper have a 440rwhp BMW 335i outgunning a 450-460rwhp Cobra.

The Cobra weights 3665lbs compared to the Bimmers 3584lbs and The Bimmer has better aerodynamics .30 vs .34 for the Cobra. The Bimmer is at a weight and aerodynamic advantage.

Now comparing dyno draphs of a pullied 450rwhp Cobra and a 438rwhp 335i, you'll see that a chipped/intake/meth/ms109 335i will make 480+lbs-ft tq @1800-1900rpms as compared to a pullied Cobra making its 450lbs-ft tq @ 3700-3800rpms. Their final axle ratio is similar with the Bimmer having a 3.46 gear set and the Cobra having a 3.55 gear set.

With 480+lbs-ft tq @ 1800-1900rpms and some DRs on the 335i, I can definately see it rolling out a 450rwhp 03/04 Cobra.

Bench racing at it's best.....

I'll let you disect my Dyno sheet, and hopefully, they post a dyno sheet of the BMW.

Cobra's are known to have insane powerband and TQ Curves, etc.

Also, I can bet you, the weight is just about equal, if not heavier in the BMW looking at those big ass wheels, the aftermarket body parts, etc. Unless they took a few things out.

Either way, why don't we take what a good driver with traction and cool weather can do in a Pullied Cobra? Low 11's @ 121-123. Still waiting on the times of this BMW.

 

[NA_Cobra]

Bench racing at it's best.....

I'll let you disect my Dyno sheet, and hopefully, they post a dyno sheet of the BMW.

Cobra's are known to have insane powerband and TQ Curves, etc.

Also, I can bet you, the weight is just about equal, if not heavier in the BMW looking at those big ass wheels, the aftermarket body parts, etc. Unless they took a few things out.

Either way, why don't we take what a good driver with traction and cool weather can do in a Pullied Cobra? Low 11's @ 121-123. Still waiting on the times of this BMW.

I'm still waiting on the times of Boostinwild's bimmer also. My guess is 11.6-11.7 @ 118-120mph, but either way you look at it, a 335i will make it's max torque from 1800rpm to 5000rpm, which is why their midrange is such a MONSTER. An 03/04 Cobra makes it's max torque in the 4k rpm range.

To sum it up, powerwise supremecy in the mid range, its all 335i hands down and powerwise supremecy on the top end, its all 03/04 Cobra. I have yet to see a pullied, ported blower, KB or Whipple Cobra produce 490lbs-ft tq at 1800rpm.

490rwtq @ 1800rpm = SPIN CITY!

 

[Grabber]

I'm still waiting on the times of Boostinwild's bimmer also. My guess is 11.6-11.7 @ 118-120mph, but either way you look at it, a 335i will make it's max torque from 1800rpm to 5000rpm, which is why their midrange is such a MONSTER. An 03/04 Cobra makes it's max torque in the 4k rpm range.

To sum it up, powerwise supremecy in the mid range, its all 335i hands down and powerwise supremecy on the top end, its all 03/04 Cobra. I have yet to see a pullied, ported blower, KB or Whipple Cobra produce 490lbs-ft tq at 1800rpm.

490rwtq @ 1800rpm = SPIN CITY!

If you looked at my Dyno sheet, my Cobra made 450+ RWTQ @ 1500 RPM. Then peaks around 250-3000 RPM.

Cobra's are known for extreme low end TQ, and Top End power. Obviously, if Cobra's had shitty mid range power, they wouldn't be as fast as they are, would they?

Curious, where does the BMW make it most HP? What, about 8K? By then, the Cobra would already be pulling based on the logic you are using.

Yes, it's very impressive the BMW can make this kind of power with only a few thousand in mods.

Ever since you Joined this site, you have always knocked Cobra's. It's cool, you clearly don't know much about them, and even if you did, you don't take everything into consideration, just want you want to.

 

[NA_Cobra]

If you looked at my Dyno sheet, my Cobra made 450+ RWTQ @ 1500 RPM. Then peaks around 250-3000 RPM.

Cobra's are known for extreme low end TQ, and Top End power. Obviously, if Cobra's had shitty mid range power, they wouldn't be as fast as they are, would they?

Curious, where does the BMW make it most HP? What, about 8K? By then, the Cobra would already be pulling based on the logic you are using.

Yes, it's very impressive the BMW can make this kind of power with only a few thousand in mods.

Ever since you Joined this site, you have always knocked Cobra's. It's cool, you clearly don't know much about them, and even if you did, you don't take everything into consideration, just want you want to.

Your dyno is STD corrected and it doesn't show rpms. Where does it show 450rwtq @ 1500rpms. 1500rpms in 4th @ 45mph is about 2000-2100rpms with 3.55 gearing. Being a STD corrected graph, SAE would be about 440rwtq @ 2000rpms as compared to the Bimmers 490 at 1900. The Bimmer still has a 50+rwtq advantage. The Bimmer also has a 7k rpm redline and makes most its power between 1800-5500rpms.

I've previously owned a Mustang GT and Cobra and have had thoughts of getting in an '11 GT500, but I'm really in the market for a 4dr. I don't knock Cobras as I know what they are capable of and what they can do and know much more about them than you. You see HP/TQ numbers and which ever is the highest, you all assume that vehicle automatically wins. An 03/04 Cobra surely isn't a slouch down low, but the Bimmer makes more torque earlier and lower in the rpm range as compared to a Terminator. Where did I say a Cobra has a shitty midrange?

The Bimmer has several advantages over the 03/04 Cobra. Aerodynamics, tranny gearing, DCT tranny and weight. I can tell you this that a 438rwhp 335i will NOT roll a 525rwhp 03/04 Cobra. Now a 450rwhp Cobra and a 440rwhp 335i and I see a 335i coming out on top.

 

[Grabber]

Your dyno is STD corrected and it doesn't show rpms. Where does it show 450rwtq @ 1500rpms. The Bimmer has a 7k rpm redline and makes most its power between 1800-5500rpms.

I've previously owned a Mustang GT and Cobra and have had thoughts of getting in an '11 GT500, but I'm really in the market for a 4dr. I don't knock Cobras as I know what they are capable of and what they can do and know much more about them than you. You see HP/TQ numbers and which ever is the highest, you all assume that vehicle automatically wins.

The Bimmer has several advantages over the 03/04 Cobra. Aerodynamics, tranny gearing, DCT tranny and weight. I can tell you this that a 438rwhp 335i will NOT roll a 525rwhp 03/04 Cobra. Now a 450rwhp Cobra and a 440rwhp 335i and I see a 335i coming out on top.

My SAE Corrected numbers are 462 RWHP and 486 RWTQ @ 11 PSI.

I get 450 RWTQ @ 1500 RPM. The bars listed in my graph are confusing, but, I was explained by my tuner how they work.

Every 4 bars, is 1K RPM. So, my power falls off right around 6500 RPM, give or take. So, I get 450 RWTQ @ 1,000 RPM, and All TQ arouond 2000-2500 RPM. My previous statement was wrong, as I was going off of memory.

So, 486 RWTQ @ 2000-2500 RPM, and a lot of Top End power. Also, notice how FLAT the TQ Curve is?

Have you owned an 03 Cobra? Before my Cobra, I owned a 2003 M3 CSL Package, with an exhaust, intake, etc. and it pulled a bit more than a Stock 3V S197 GT and that was it. For a car that made 370 HP and weighed about 3400 with driver, it ran bottom 13's.

I then owned an 07 GT Vortech Blown, and then my Cobra. Now a Mach 1.

I have been in well over 100 races in my Cobra within the 1.5 years of owning it. On the Highway, they are monsters, because of Instant TQ, and such a strong powerband.

Either way, let's stop going back and forth, and wait to see what beastly times this shop pulls out of their near stock BMW, how much weight reduction, etc.

I am also curious if they meant 525 RWHP or 525 Crank HP.

 

[NA_Cobra]

My SAE Corrected numbers are 462 RWHP and 486 RWTQ @ 11 PSI.

I get 450 RWTQ @ 1500 RPM. The bars listed in my graph are confusing, but, I was explained by my tuner how they work.

Every 4 bars, is 1K RPM. So, my power falls off right around 6500 RPM, give or take. So, I get 450 RWTQ @ 1,000 RPM, and All TQ arouond 2000-2500 RPM. My previous statement was wrong, as I was going off of memory.

So, 486 RWTQ @ 2000-2500 RPM, and a lot of Top End power. Also, notice how FLAT the TQ Curve is?

Have you owned an 03 Cobra? Before my Cobra, I owned a 2003 M3 CSL Package, with an exhaust, intake, etc. and it pulled a bit more than a Stock 3V S197 GT and that was it. For a car that made 370 HP and weighed about 3400 with driver, it ran bottom 13's.

I then owned an 07 GT Vortech Blown, and then my Cobra. Now a Mach 1.

I have been in well over 100 races in my Cobra within the 1.5 years of owning it. On the Highway, they are monsters, because of Instant TQ, and such a strong powerband.

Either way, let's stop going back and forth, and wait to see what beastly times this shop pulls out of their near stock BMW, how much weight reduction, etc.

I am also curious if they meant 525 RWHP or 525 Crank HP.

1500rpms w/ 3.55 gearing would put you at 32mph. Your graphs starts at 45mph which is about 2k rpms. Yours graph starts at around 2k rpms.

Either way, I'm not going to argue with someone that doesn't know how to read a dyno graph. I done conflicting with you.

Waiting on tracks times from Boostinwild..............................................

 

[Grabber]

1500rpms w/ 3.55 gearing would put you at 32mph. Your graphs starts at 45mph which is about 2k rpms. Yours graph starts at around 2k rpms.

Either way, I'm not going to argue with someone that doesn't know how to read a dyno graph. I done conflicting with you.

Waiting on tracks times from Boostinwild..............................................

Regardless, I am off by a small amount. You saying I get peak TQ @ 4,000 RPM is even dumber.

You need to learn something about a Roots Style car. Centri blower cars usually get most of their TQ @ 4,000 RPM. Oh wait, I own a Centri blown car!

Roots and TS Style cars get ALL TORQUE AT LOW RPM, NOT HIGH RPM.

 

[NA_Cobra]

Regardless, I am off by a small amount. You saying I get peak TQ @ 4,000 RPM is even dumber.

You need to learn something about a Roots Style car. Centri blower cars usually get most of their TQ @ 4,000 RPM. Oh wait, I own a Centri blown car!

Roots and TS Style cars get ALL TORQUE AT LOW RPM, NOT HIGH RPM.

According to the graph you posted, peak torque is achieved at 70mph, which is about 3200-3300rpm. If you look at the specs on a stock 03/04 Cobra, peak torque is achieved at about 3700-3800rpms.

A roots blower will always have more tq in the low/mid range and area under the curve than a Centri car. I've been in this game for over 10+ yrs kiddo. Tell me something I don't know.

 

[Grabber]

According to the graph you posted, peak torque is achieved at 70mph, which is about 3200-3300rpm. If you look at the specs on a stock 03/04 Cobra, peak torque is achieved at about 3700-3800rpms.

A roots blower will always have more tq in the low/mid range and area under the curve than a Centri car. I've been in this game for over 10+ yrs kiddo. Tell me something I don't know.

LOL

Well, when racing on the highway, @ 70 MPH, in 2nd Gear, I am at about 3000 RPM. I have all my TQ by then, and before then. Point is, you said 3500 nearly 4000 RPM for max TQ. My Graph clearly shows, it is much much sooner than that. Also, reading the stock specs on an 03.04 Cobra, they acheived 390 TQ @ 3500 RPM. Once you start swapping pullies, retune the super detuned ECU, you will be making Peak TQ a Lot Faster.

Also, BMW's are not famous for making loads of TQ. This BMW in question have Nitrous by chance?

I've also been racing for close to 10 years, and am only 26. I know how Stock Cobras and Pullied Cobra's are. I've had my fair share against imports, such as BMW's, Audi's, etc. I don't see a High revving car, getting insane low end Torque over a Roots car.

Let's wait for the Dyno Graph and times before we start making assumptions.

Fair enough Sweet Cheeks? :beer:

 

[NA_Cobra]

LOL

Well, when racing on the highway, @ 70 MPH, in 2nd Gear, I am at about 3000 RPM. I have all my TQ by then, and before then. Point is, you said 3500 nearly 4000 RPM for max TQ. My Graph clearly shows, it is much much sooner than that. Also, reading the stock specs on an 03.04 Cobra, they acheived 390 TQ @ 3500 RPM. Once you start swapping pullies, retune the super detuned ECU, you will be making Peak TQ a Lot Faster.

Also, BMW's are not famous for making loads of TQ. This BMW in question have Nitrous by chance?

I've also been racing for close to 10 years, and am only 26. I know how Stock Cobras and Pullied Cobra's are. I've had my fair share against imports, such as BMW's, Audi's, etc. I don't see a High revving car, getting insane low end Torque over a Roots car.

Let's wait for the Dyno Graph and times before we start making assumptions.

Fair enough Sweet Cheeks? :beer:

This is why I don't let my kids do drugs. :lol:

At, 70mph in 2nd gear, you'll be around 5800rpms NOT 3000rpms.


Please do some research :read: on BMW's 3L 6cylinder Twin Turbo that can be found in the 135, 335 and 535 series models. :beer:


15221 Pebble Lake Estates, Spring, TX 77373, Why don't you try calling me sweet cheeks face to face.

 

[Grabber]

This is why I don't let my kids do drugs. :lol:

Just saying, I don't race from 70 MPH, LOL. I prfer running from a dig, where I can show how crappy of a driver I am

Well, you sound like a good father then, keep an eye on em

 

[Fox Fan]

Wow... dumb argument overall...

NA Cobra, posting your address isn't very bright either considering the stories of mustangs that have been stolen from guys on car forums. Based on the fact that you're clearly not scared of anyone, I'm sure you're 7' tall, and 380 lbs of rippling muscle with a 240B Machine Gun home security system, but none of that will do you any good while you're away from the house. I purposefully didn't quote your message, and strongly suggest editing away your address.

All that said, the most ignorant comment in the thread had to be the one about European cars being able to do more with rwhp than low-tech American cars. That guy's smokin' crack. European cars hold no such advantage, sorry. The car makes low-end torque because it has a comparatively small turbo that spools at low RPM. My last combo was and old-tech incon twin-turbo 5.0 that made 420rwhp and about 490 rwtq. The turbos were very tiny and came on instantaneously... They made peak boost (10psi-ish) by 2400-2500 rpm. Essentially, it was the kind of powerband that the 335i is making. Sure, you can debate the fact that mine had 2 extra cylinders or whatever makes you feel better about yourself, but the bottom-line is that an engine is an air-pump... There's nothing magical about a car and its air-pump made 2000 miles east of another car and its air-pump.

And anyway, why are we talking about a 300hp stock car again? Any modded car can be fast. Mustangs and Corvettes are still way better bang for the buck if performance is the game. If you want to show me an impressive european car, bring something interesting to the table. FWIW, I own a BMW... I'm just stating the obvious as it occurs to me.

Want ride quality, decent handling, a nice interior and have plenty of money?... BMW, or Mercedes might be for you. Want to go faster for the same amount of money or less? America still rocks!

Chris

 

[S8ER01Z]

Wow... dumb argument overall...

NA Cobra, posting your address isn't very bright either considering the stories of mustangs that have been stolen from guys on car forums. Based on the fact that you're clearly not scared of anyone, I'm sure you're 7' tall, and 380 lbs of rippling muscle with a 240B Machine Gun home security system, but none of that will do you any good while you're away from the house. I purposefully didn't quote your message, and strongly suggest editing away your address.

All that said, the most ignorant comment in the thread had to be the one about European cars being able to do more with rwhp than low-tech American cars. That guy's smokin' crack. European cars hold no such advantage, sorry. The car makes low-end torque because it has a comparatively small turbo that spools at low RPM. My last combo was and old-tech incon twin-turbo 5.0 that made 420rwhp and about 490 rwtq. The turbos were very tiny and came on instantaneously... They made peak boost (10psi-ish) by 2400-2500 rpm. Essentially, it was the kind of powerband that the 335i is making. Sure, you can debate the fact that mine had 2 extra cylinders or whatever makes you feel better about yourself, but the bottom-line is that an engine is an air-pump... There's nothing magical about a car and its air-pump made 2000 miles east of another car and its air-pump.

And anyway, why are we talking about a 300hp stock car again? Any modded car can be fast. Mustangs and Corvettes are still way better bang for the buck if performance is the game. If you want to show me an impressive european car, bring something interesting to the table. FWIW, I own a BMW... I'm just stating the obvious as it occurs to me.

Want ride quality, decent handling, a nice interior and have plenty of money?... BMW, or Mercedes might be for you. Want to go faster for the same amount of money or less? America still rocks!

Chris

:beer:

 

[ViciousJay]

If you looked at my Dyno sheet, my Cobra made 450+ RWTQ @ 1500 RPM. Then peaks around 250-3000 RPM.

Cobra's are known for extreme low end TQ, and Top End power. Obviously, if Cobra's had shitty mid range power, they wouldn't be as fast as they are, would they?

Curious, where does the BMW make it most HP? What, about 8K? By then, the Cobra would already be pulling based on the logic you are using.

Yes, it's very impressive the BMW can make this kind of power with only a few thousand in mods.

Ever since you Joined this site, you have always knocked Cobra's. It's cool, you clearly don't know much about them, and even if you did, you don't take everything into consideration, just want you want to.

This!

My old cobra put down over 510 tq @ 2K rpm's and stayed strong till about 4700ish

 

[NA_Cobra]

Wow... dumb argument overall...

NA Cobra, posting your address isn't very bright either considering the stories of mustangs that have been stolen from guys on car forums. Based on the fact that you're clearly not scared of anyone, I'm sure you're 7' tall, and 380 lbs of rippling muscle with a 240B Machine Gun home security system, but none of that will do you any good while you're away from the house. I purposefully didn't quote your message, and strongly suggest editing away your address.

All that said, the most ignorant comment in the thread had to be the one about European cars being able to do more with rwhp than low-tech American cars. That guy's smokin' crack. European cars hold no such advantage, sorry. The car makes low-end torque because it has a comparatively small turbo that spools at low RPM. My last combo was and old-tech incon twin-turbo 5.0 that made 420rwhp and about 490 rwtq. The turbos were very tiny and came on instantaneously... They made peak boost (10psi-ish) by 2400-2500 rpm. Essentially, it was the kind of powerband that the 335i is making. Sure, you can debate the fact that mine had 2 extra cylinders or whatever makes you feel better about yourself, but the bottom-line is that an engine is an air-pump... There's nothing magical about a car and its air-pump made 2000 miles east of another car and its air-pump.

And anyway, why are we talking about a 300hp stock car again? Any modded car can be fast. Mustangs and Corvettes are still way better bang for the buck if performance is the game. If you want to show me an impressive european car, bring something interesting to the table. FWIW, I own a BMW... I'm just stating the obvious as it occurs to me.

Want ride quality, decent handling, a nice interior and have plenty of money?... BMW, or Mercedes might be for you. Want to go faster for the same amount of money or less? America still rocks!

Chris

You forget that I live in Texas and I have little friends ;-) I could use some target practice.


Back to thread topic. ViciousJay, have you come across any 335is yet?

 

[ChiSVT]

:sleeping:

98% of bolt-on 335is run 113-117mph at the track.

I raced a intake/tune/cb 335i local to me from a 1st gear punch till about 120mph and I had AT LEAST 4 cars on it. :shrug: NO WAY did it seem like 120mph+ car to me.

I've seen a couple videos posted by 335i owners on this site but I have to say the Cobras seemed to run like dog shit compared to what I've experienced. The "European hp" isn't magically > than anything else just because it's a BMW. It's a 3600lb+ car that makes 400-420rwhp typically with bolt-ons. Sure if another car is running like dogshit it's easy to claim they can "hang with 500rwhp Cobras". :lol:

Anyways, OP, I'd say it would be drivers race. I think from a dig the GT will have a slight advantage and at higher rolling speeds the BMW would have an advantage.

 

[Todd03Blown]

15221 Pebble Lake Estates, Spring, TX 77373, Why don't you try calling me sweet cheeks face to face.

WOW an internet tough guy posting his address.....oke::sleeping:

 

[5 ltr. beater]

WOW an internet tough guy posting his address.....oke::sleeping:

worst thing anyone could do...no matter how tough/shady you think you are...there's always someone crazier than you. heck someone can even sit outside your house all day and wait for you to leave.. :nonono:

 

[stangposse]

worst thing anyone could do...no matter how tough/shady you think you are...there's always someone crazier than you. heck someone can even sit outside your house all day and wait for you to leave.. :nonono:

...and he can be assured that whomever does go there will make sure they bring their little friends too....and they might not need any practice.

 

[boostingwild]

Sorry for late response have been busy with work.

Not trying to start a war, I CLEARLY SAID THE 335i lost to the COBRA by 1-2 Cars at the top of fourth gear.

The Cobra Made 525hp to the wheels, but the 335i power of aprox. 430hp comes in alot earlier than the cobra. Alot of other factors can come into play and anything can happen on the streets. I will post more videos up of that race as soon as i get them from the driver cams.

The 335i runs mid 11's at traps of a little over 120mph.

Cars 60ft can be improved by .4 with slicks, but its hard to get something when the car has stupid big brakes from factory.

We have alot of love for ALL CARS. I simply posted a reply to someones question, wasnt trying to BS or start shit. I posted as much as i could about it, and if everyone here wants to dissect every little detail, so be it.

The car is a 2010 BMW 335i M-Sport Package
jb3 chip, intake, downpipe catless, mid pipe catless, axle back, hr lower springs, METH, Underdrive pulley.

jb3 chip allows for different Map settings aka different Tunes.

Red Cobra race was run on MAP 9 with METH.

Lets all relax and enjoy all Great Cars :beer: