Better all around AK for range time: AK47 or AK74

[333arod333]

You'll have to decide which you want. Personally I'm not a big AK fan, I have one and have had many others but I greatly prefer the AR platform. Just like the AR platform there are many grades. I know many will be butthurt but the Romanian AK's are pieces of shit... Sorry. They're unreliable for the most part and have poor quality parts. Egyptians and chinese are a bit better. Yugoslavian, polish, hungarian, and Bulgarian are mid-high grade and the best are Russian. Best build quality is Arsenal.

At the end of the day a decent AK will cost you almost as much as a good AR, and good AK mags will cost you more than good (magpul) AR mags. Ammo is a wash as far as 7.62 and 5.56, yes brass cased is more but steel cased is the same and a good AR will eat it up.

All due respect.

Well, you are right in one aspect: there are two types of Romanian AK's, the ones actually made in Romania at Cugir Factory (good quality) and the ones that are AK kits that are assembled here with Romanian and American parts (garbage). Definitely Arsenal and Century are of the parts/kit category and are garbage. You say WASRs are bad, but there are American made kit WASRs and Romanian made WASRs. Don't forget about ROMAKs either. Chinese AKs are the most garbage of all time and you should know this since it seems that you know a lot about firearms. Chinese are copies and are made cheaply. They were not made under license or using inspected machines/parts. Everything Chinese is garbage and they are all copies.

You are correct: the best quality AKs are made where they were born, in Russia. Even the Saigas of today are excellent AKs. Izmash is where the Saigas are made and this is the best plant that has ever made AKs and one of the first to make/perfect them. They have been reputed to make the best AK variants of all time, including the SVD Dragunov (or Tigr), AK100 series, etc.

No, it won't cost you as much for a good AK as it will for an AR. A "good" AK is half or a third of the price of a "good" AR. Come on, you know that lol.

Sorry for getting off topic... The reason the AK74 was invented was due to the Russians finding out about the .223 round in the AR. This ammo tended to be slower, making the bullet tumble inside the body cavity of an enemy, while the 7.62 round shot right through and out. The AK74 ammo was nicknamed the "poison bullet" due to this tumbling effect inside the torso which created more damage as it bounced around in there.

The 7.62 round is more common and more powerful. It is also the true caliber for the AK. Save the smaller stuff for the AR platform. My advice, get a Saiga, converted or convert it yourself and you will have a GREAT modern day AK made by the best AK platform factory. My Saiga shorty 7.62 shoots golf balls at a hundred yards with a $50 scope. Not bad for a rifle that is supposed to be a POS compared to the AR.

 

[HEMIHUNTER]

op:

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

I stand behind what I said about Romanian AK's being junk. They are built with poor quality parts whether they're built there or here.

I also never said a good AK costs as much as a as a good AR so why don't you go back and read again, I said almost as much. A good AK is going to run you $600-$800 and a good AR (not top of the line) is going to run $800-$1000. If that $200 difference breaks the bank then the shooting sport is not for you and neither is going fast.

 

[97StangSVT]

OP - There has been lots of good advice in this thread. Sometimes you do get what you pay for. In my experience, if you spend a couple extra bucks, you get a product that will be superior. If you are looking at an AR, take a look at Daniel Defense. They make great rifles and they can be had for $1200-1300. I had never owned an AK before and did a ton of research before purchasing one. I ended up with an Arsenal SLR-101S, which has a milled receiver. The fit and finish is great and the millwork is really nice. I run 7.62x39 steel case ammo through it and it runs flawlessly. The newer model is the Arsenal SAM7R-61. They cost about as much as a Daniel Defense. The ammo is cheap, around .24 a round and everyone has 7.62x39 in stock.

Best of luck in your decision!

 

[VictorySong]

AK and all rifles like it adjust at the front sight, it's kinda AK 101. Once zerod via the front sight you use the rear for your come ups.

PSA has never been in favor by people who know a piece of crap from a quality AR. Only by the cheapskates that want an AR to say they have one. Much like the people that buy a hi point or Keltec vs glock/M&P/XD, or a rock island vs a Springfield armory. PSA's are bottom tier AR's. They don't use good quality parts and they don't have good fitment, many times not acceptable.

I run all KAC AR's now and they are in a league from everything else. I've never shot a softer shooting AR in my life. I liked the first one so much I ended up with a total of 3 mod 1's and a LPR. I still have an LMT and a custom built from a Seekins lower as well as a few spare lowers but nothing I've owned has shot like these knights.

I think everyone (including you) knew what I was talking about with adjustable sights but, since you're technically right I won't push it. I mean, my 1911 is windage adjustable if I get out a screw driver too, I guess that counts as well. :lol1:

PSA guns have been in favor for a long time. You keep quoting poor parts but never point any out. Which parts specifically are you talking about? Surely not the FN HF barrels or the lower parts kit which is indistinguishable from any of the other standard kits. M4 feedramps check, 5.56 chamber check, 7075 lower check, MPI check. What exactly makes them bad other than the low price?

KAC is overhyped imo. IDK why you're bitching about PSA finish when KAC guns come with a pretty crappy finish similar to Colt right out of the door. I'm not a pussy so I don't really care about how light 5.56 recoils. I will agree that it's probably the softest AR out there with the exception of rifle length guns.

ETA: High quality Arsenal finish: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=119463 + many more on the AK forum. Well known to be shit. I doubt the credibility of anyone defending their half ass finishes while knocking PSA.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

AK and all rifles like it adjust at the front sight, it's kinda AK 101. Once zerod via the front sight you use the rear for your come ups.

PSA has never been in favor by people who know a piece of crap from a quality AR. Only by the cheapskates that want an AR to say they have one. Much like the people that buy a hi point or Keltec vs glock/M&P/XD, or a rock island vs a Springfield armory. PSA's are bottom tier AR's. They don't use good quality parts and they don't have good fitment, many times not acceptable.

I run all KAC AR's now and they are in a league from everything else. I've never shot a softer shooting AR in my life. I liked the first one so much I ended up with a total of 3 mod 1's and a LPR. I still have an LMT and a custom built from a Seekins lower as well as a few spare lowers but nothing I've owned has shot like these knights.

I wouldn't knock RIA, my 5'' GI was a pretty damn good gun for $450 and it never had a single failure. I sold it to a friend who never cleans it and it still runs great. Now, was it as nice as my Springfield Loaded or TRP? Obviously not in the finish department, but it shot just as well as the Loaded does. The TRP is in a whole different league, though, as it should be.

A year ago when everything black rifle was insanely priced I was building complete PSA poly lowers and selling them (for $600!!). I still have one stripped lower sitting in my safe that I'll probably build for fun some time in the next couple months.

 

[F1reStart3r]

I have both and both. Both of them are essentially AK/M4 hybrids. I drilled out an M4 telescpoic stock to put on them, put a midwest industries rail on the front with a broomstick etc. I love shooting both of them and they are shit nuts easy to learn.

Find someone you know that has both and take them to the range.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

I think everyone (including you) knew what I was talking about with adjustable sights but, since you're technically right I won't push it. I mean, my 1911 is windage adjustable if I get out a screw driver too, I guess that counts as well. :lol1:

PSA guns have been in favor for a long time. You keep quoting poor parts but never point any out. Which parts specifically are you talking about? Surely not the FN HF barrels or the lower parts kit which is indistinguishable from any of the other standard kits. M4 feedramps check, 5.56 chamber check, 7075 lower check, MPI check. What exactly makes them bad other than the low price?

KAC is overhyped imo. IDK why you're bitching about PSA finish when KAC guns come with a pretty crappy finish similar to Colt right out of the door. I'm not a pussy so I don't really care about how light 5.56 recoils. I will agree that it's probably the softest AR out there with the exception of rifle length guns.

ETA: High quality Arsenal finish: Arsenal finish pics? - AR15.Com Archive + many more on the AK forum. Well known to be shit. I doubt the credibility of anyone defending their half ass finishes while knocking PSA.

You said they are not adjustable for wind age which they are. Once you zero it L-R, windage or whatever you want to call it you don't need to dick with it so whats the point of having the rear adjustable? Most people hold wind since its an ever changing variable, not dial it.

There are a BIG difference between parts kits. Of the PSA parts kits I've used for people typically 1-2 parts at least are out of spec either too big or too small. Of the hundred+ AR's I've put together I have NEVER had a Stag or RRA lower part be out of and until recently the same was said for DD but a friends didn't want to go in a Noveske lower. Luckly I have spare parts. I've had PSA receivers severaly out of spec as well. I. Not the only person to get bad parts, there are plenty of others who have noticed their crappyness as well.

Your right, KAC's are over hyped. Everybody else uses a E3 bolt with rounded lugs I guess? NOPE. Innovations like the E3 bolt are what puts KAC above the rest, they made a solution for the only real somewhat common failures to quality AR's and one is the bolt cracking. The E3 fixes that. Another is weak extractor springs, the KAC has a dual extractor spring setup which is solid and nobody else does either. Another thing nobody else does is offer 100% ambidextrous controls like KAC's. It sure is fast slapping that right side bolt release with your trigger finger.

Their parts are held to the tightest tolerances and of the 4 KAC's in my safe right now the finish is flawless on every one or at least was before I got ahold to them. There is no forend on the market quite like URX3.1 either. The triggers are more crisp and smooth than my Giessele, the sights are great, they use the LMT enhanced buffer tube which the stock doesn't slap around on like all the rest. But yes, they are overpriced.

As far as the recoil, you really show your lack of knowledge with your statements. It's not about punishing recoil, it's about control. The lower and smoother the recoil pulses are the faster you can make accurate shots. If all you do is slow fire on a square range, or do spray and pray mag dumbs then yes it will make no difference but if you want to make fast accurate hits then it makes all the difference in the world. People aren't running muzzle brakes and rifle length gas systems in 3 gun because the recoil hurts. This bring us to our next education lesson on KAC... they've spent a lot of time and money developing their gas system to have the softest shooting guns on the market. Another proprietary feature of KAC that you overpay for.

I've proven you wrong in your statements yet again but I have a feeling you'll be back with more ridiculous comments.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

I wouldn't knock RIA, my 5'' GI was a pretty damn good gun for $450 and it never had a single failure. I sold it to a friend who never cleans it and it still runs great. Now, was it as nice as my Springfield Loaded or TRP? Obviously not in the finish department, but it shot just as well as the Loaded does. The TRP is in a whole different league, though, as it should be.

A year ago when everything black rifle was insanely priced I was building complete PSA poly lowers and selling them (for $600!!). I still have one stripped lower sitting in my safe that I'll probably build for fun some time in the next couple months.

You admit to buying and selling firearms for profit on a public forum most likely without a license which is a felony...

 

[VictorySong]

You said they are not adjustable for wind age which they are. Once you zero it L-R, windage or whatever you want to call it you don't need to dick with it so whats the point of having the rear adjustable? Most people hold wind since its an ever changing variable, not dial it.

There are a BIG difference between parts kits. Of the PSA parts kits I've used for people typically 1-2 parts at least are out of spec either too big or too small. Of the hundred+ AR's I've put together I have NEVER had a Stag or RRA lower part be out of and until recently the same was said for DD but a friends didn't want to go in a Noveske lower. Luckly I have spare parts. I've had PSA receivers severaly out of spec as well. I. Not the only person to get bad parts, there are plenty of others who have noticed their crappyness as well.


I've proven you wrong in your statements yet again but I have a feeling you'll be back with more ridiculous comments.

Oh I see, it's their parts kits that are bad now not their guns. :rollseyes The point I made was you know damn well what I was talking about, AK sights are not windage adjustable like an M14 or m16A2. :bored:

You haven't proven shit, you just went on a rant about KAC's proprietary parts and have ignored my comments on Arsenal's finish. By the way, KAC lowers are NOT full ambi as they lack a BHO on both sides of the rifle. The URX 3.1 was a trend follower and wasn't all that hot. The URX 4 is copied directly from Noveske. I could go on but, all of your posts reek of brand myopia.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

Last time I checked AR15's were assembled from parts and will be until they train a fairy to wave a wand and a complete rifle poofs out of thin air

It's better now that KAC copied noveskes forend. Your too much dude.

I stated my personal experience with Arsenals. I haven't personally had or seen one in person that had a bad finish and that's fact. I don't doubt they exist though but you can get anything and have it come jacked up.

As far as brand loyalty I see it all, use what works, and give credit where credit is due. KAC's aren't the only AR's in my safe but I also didn't buy $10k worth of their product for a name.

 

[VictorySong]

Last time I checked AR15's were assembled from parts and will be until they train a fairy to wave a wand and a complete rifle poofs out of thin air

It's better now that KAC copied noveskes forend. Your too much dude.

I stated my personal experience with Arsenals. I haven't personally had or seen one in person that had a bad finish and that's fact. I don't doubt they exist though but you can get anything and have it come jacked up.

As far as brand loyalty I see it all, use what works, and give credit where credit is due. KAC's aren't the only AR's in my safe but I also didn't buy $10k worth of their product for a name.

You do know that the URX 4 Keymod rail was promoted and released by Noveske to be an industry standard for slick rails right? Not a secret, you don't follow KAC as well as you think you do.:bored:

One person? The entire line of rifles shares a shit finish that gets demolished by solvents.

Keymod: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keymod

An actual ambi lower:http://axtsweapons.com/TE/AX556/robbjensen

 

[Digital]

I've had both the 74 and the AKM(47.) The 74 is a smaller round. A little bigger then the 223. I'm not overly impressed with it. It's not that much cheaper to shoot then the 47 so as far as range price goes it's a toss up. The 47 does kick a bit harder and it's a big round so fast follow up shots are hard. The guns are almost the exact same thing and are both very customizable. I don't have the 74 anymore but still have the 47. If that helps.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

You admit to buying and selling firearms for profit on a public forum most likely without a license which is a felony...

Maybe in VA.

If what you are saying is true that means if you buy a gun you can never sell it for more than you purchased it... used gun market would be shit if that were the case.

No registration and no background check required for transfer in my state.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

Maybe in VA.

If what you are saying is true that means if you buy a gun you can never sell it for more than you purchased it... used gun market would be shit if that were the case.

No registration and no background check required for transfer in my state.

FFL = Federal Firearms License. Firearm sales laws are federally regulated. Federal laws states you cannot buy a firearm with the sole intent of reselling for profit. Even if your state said it is legal it's still illegal on a federal level. You openly admitted to committing felonies.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

Guess I'll just have to wait for the ATF to come knocking on my door for selling a couple lowers :rollseyes

So probably half of the people who have sold firearms in the past year are felons, as well.

 

[VictorySong]

Guess I'll just have to wait for the ATF to come knocking on my door for selling a couple lowers :rollseyes

So probably half of the people who have sold firearms in the past year are felons, as well.

Not going to happen because you aren't engaged in business for commercial profit. A few lowers isn't shit, people liquidate massive collections all the time. I always get a laugh out of gun owners threatening others with the ATF. It was even worse during the 94 AWB. Asshats would comment on whether or not your lower was preban if you had a flashhider/bayonet lug to "make sure you were legal." Gayest shit I've ever seen, and no, most of my ARs weren't preban. :lol1:

 

[RocketSurgeon]

Not going to happen because you aren't engaged in business for commercial profit. A few lowers isn't shit, people liquidate massive collections all the time. I always get a laugh out of gun owners threatening others with the ATF. It was even worse during the 94 AWB. Asshats would comment on whether or not your lower was preban if you had a flashhider/bayonet lug to "make sure you were legal." Gayest shit I've ever seen, and no, most of my ARs weren't preban. :lol1:

That was exactly my point. Other poster thinks he just has to comment on everything and appear smarter.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

There's certainly nothing dumber than openly admitting you committed multiple felonies.

 

[VictorySong]

There's certainly nothing dumber than openly admitting you committed multiple felonies.

I know. Little Johnny didn't file an income tax form last year for the money he made mowing lawns and got grabbed by the IRS in the middle of the night. I haven't filled one out in five years and have been worried about it. Luckily nothings happened yet.

Hold on, there seems to be a black helicopter out side. I thi














:lol: