Better all around AK for range time: AK47 or AK74

[Jroc]

I have zero experience with AK's. A little with AR's but none with AK's. Anyway I've been thinking about getting a AK as it seems you can get a better AK for noticeably less than a good AR. From what I've read is that during Vietnam the USSR took the M16 and examined it and the round it fired and like the 5.56 NATO, and copied it's basic design and size and came up with the 5.45x39, and developed the AK74 to fire it off the AK47 design which obviously fires the 7.62x39 round. I believe they are very similar other than the round they fire. From my understanding while not as powerful the AK74 is suppose to be a more accurate gun than the AK47, and it's apparent cheaper to shoot as Russian surplus ammo is cheap and plentiful for it.

People who are knowledge able about these weapons tell me about them, and the benefits of each. Being AK's I'm sure both are extremely rugged and reliable. Is the only real benefit of the AK47 is that's fires a more powerful round? It seems that the AK74 would be a better choice for a gun to take out and shoot frequently? I'm sure it's recoil is easier to manage and if it's more accurate with any given shooter it's likely funner to shoot I'd imagine? Again I'm just looking some good general info on both. Advatages and disadvantages of both, which models to look at and which to avoid, etc.

A better thread title might be comparing 5.45x39 to 7.62x39 instead of Ak47's to AK74's but IDK.

Please correct anything I've said wrong here as this is just what I've gathered reading over the IE.

Thanks,

Jesse

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

For the most part the 7.62 ammo is better than the 5.45. Most of the 5.45 (all the super cheap surplus) is corrosive which means you need to thoroughly clean the whole system after you shoot it. The best way to do it is hose everything down with windex and flush it out with the garden hose. Let it bake in the sun and then re lube. The 7.62 is also a legal round to hunt big game with whereas 5.45 isn't in many states. There is also more ammo available for the 7.62.

That said the 5.45 does have one advantage and that is recoil.

You'll have to decide which you want. Personally I'm not a big AK fan, I have one and have had many others but I greatly prefer the AR platform. Just like the AR platform there are many grades. I know many will be butthurt but the Romanian AK's are pieces of shit... Sorry. They're unreliable for the most part and have poor quality parts. Egyptians and chinese are a bit better. Yugoslavian, polish, hungarian, and Bulgarian are mid-high grade and the best are Russian. Best build quality is Arsenal.

At the end of the day a decent AK will cost you almost as much as a good AR, and good AK mags will cost you more than good (magpul) AR mags. Ammo is a wash as far as 7.62 and 5.56, yes brass cased is more but steel cased is the same and a good AR will eat it up.

 

[VictorySong]

Get the 5.45 if you plan on doing a lot of shooting. You're a bit behind the curve for getting either the 47 or the 74 but, ammo is still far cheaper than any common center fire round out there. Magazines are the only problem, prices are all over the place so you have to search for the deals.

All AKs are shit, there are no good brands. Go in person to a gun store and get the cheapest non USA made AK you can find that doesn't have butchered/canted sights. Arsenal is a waste of money. By the time you buy an Arsenal and expensive 74 mags you could have got a PSA AR-15 and a few cases of ammo that will last a lifetime.

AKs get used then thrown in the trash can when their service life is over.

Would not recommend either system. I ditched the 16 inch SR-15 I had and went bigger. The trend in the shooting community is toward EBRs in .308 or SBRd 5.56 rifles but, you have to pay to play there.

 

[Rainmaker]

Galil

 

[Rainmaker]

Between the two, I would prefer the 7.62x39 just because it is easier to find.

 

[VictorySong]

Galil

I got an IMI Galil during the ban for my 5th or 6th birthday. Holy shit are they heavy. Freaking boat anchor of a rifle. For the money/weight (now)you could get a SCAR-H.

That being said, I never had any problems and that was back when ammo was free ( to me) and cheap for my parents. I think Radway Green was coming in too. Even with the weak charges for the SA80 the Galil never missed a beat.

Also, won't be reloading with that platform. Massive case damage on extraction. Expensive mags too.

ETA: Actually Magnum research import, not sure if they ran with the IMI moniker or the IWI brand at that time.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

All AKs are shit, there are no good brands. Go in person to a gun store and get the cheapest non USA made AK you can find that doesn't have butchered/canted sights. Arsenal is a waste of money.

Have you ever had an AK? There are quality AK's and Arsenal is one of them. There's a huge difference between the build quality of an arsenal and the best century. Even a lot of the century's are great rifles, and that is the brand that often suffers from canted sights.

I think your problem is following these 'trends' you speak of. I'm not an AK fan but there are plenty of them that are deads nuts reliable.

 

[Jroc]

I was looking at these. How do y'all think they are priced for the model they are?
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC

Arsenal's looked to be priced a little more than I'd want to spend for a AK.

So a WASR AK is one to avoid?

 

[VictorySong]

Have you ever had an AK? There are quality AK's and Arsenal is one of them. There's a huge difference between the build quality of an arsenal and the best century. Even a lot of the century's are great rifles, and that is the brand that often suffers from canted sights.

I think your problem is following these 'trends' you speak of. I'm not an AK fan but there are plenty of them that are deads nuts reliable.

Arsenal's finish is garbage and will be peeling off the first time you clean the gun. It's definitely leaps and bounds above CAI just due to the fact that they run used parts kits/demills. They aren't "mil/Russian/Bulgarian spec" regardless of what they use in marketing.

I've had AK platform guns before as well. They are pretty terrible all things considered. The ergonomics suck, horrible finishing, even on Valmets, iron sights aren't good or windage adjustable, optic mounting blows, can't run IR or lights without it turning into a 10lbs club, etc etc.

Also, I've been around long enough to see Chinese AKs which, are probably only second to the Valmets in "quality" (used very loosely), go from unsellable junk that no one wanted to high end collectibles with unrivaled fit/finish.

All of the above reasons + cost increase due to more people trying to get into the platform have made the gun really uneconomical. It was good as a $300 truck gun, not so much when you can get AR15s for dirt cheap from PSA.

The only "AK" I'd get today is an old IMI Galil and I'd only do it out of nostalgia. Of course if we're going that loose on what an AK is I'd rather have a PE90 or SG 553 SBRd from Armati for the same money.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

I was looking at these. How do y'all think they are priced for the model they are?
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC

Arsenal's looked to be priced a little more than I'd want to spend for a AK.

So a WASR AK is one to avoid?

Those are both great AK's and you couldn't go wrong with either. You just have to decide which caliber is right for you, I wouldn't base it off poll results which is why I didn't vote. It's just like 223 vs 308, they're both good choices but have their pros and cons and each fit certain applications better.

Yes, WASR's are piees of crap. They're the lowest grade AK made.

 

[VictorySong]

I was looking at these. How do y'all think they are priced for the model they are?
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC

Arsenal's looked to be priced a little more than I'd want to spend for a AK.

So a WASR AK is one to avoid?

Get an FEG made Hungarian AK or Yugoslavian O-pap. They're "the best" for the money right now.

Atlantic has them for 599.

ETA: missed it in the first link doh!

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

Arsenal's finish is garbage and will be peeling off the first time you clean the gun. It's definitely leaps and bounds above CAI just due to the fact that they run used parts kits/demills. They aren't "mil/Russian/Bulgarian spec" regardless of what they use in marketing.

I've had AK platform guns before as well. They are pretty terrible all things considered. The ergonomics suck, horrible finishing, even on Valmets, iron sights aren't good or windage adjustable, optic mounting blows, can't run IR or lights without it turning into a 10lbs club, etc etc.

Also, I've been around long enough to see Chinese AKs which, are probably only second to the Valmets in "quality" (used very loosely), go from unsellable junk that no one wanted to high end collectibles with unrivaled fit/finish.

All of the above reasons + cost increase due to more people trying to get into the platform have made the gun really uneconomical. It was good as a $300 truck gun, not so much when you can get AR15s for dirt cheap from PSA.

The only "AK" I'd get today is an old IMI Galil and I'd only do it out of nostalgia. Of course if we're going that loose on what an AK is I'd rather have a PE90 or SG 553 SBRd from Armati for the same money.

I've been around numerous Arsenals and owned one and have never seen one with a finish that was peeling.

Ergo does suck and they don't have wiz bang features nor do they readily accept wiz bang features but they were. Plenty of Americans have died from AK's in the hands of people with zero training, Americans with higher tech guns, NV, and all that stuff. The sights are wind age adjustable but you have to have the tool. Once it's set it's set. I've made consistent hits on man sized targets (actually smaller) at 600 yards with those crappy sights with howling winds and it was hit after hit on steel.

That said I'd take anything but a Romanian AK over a POS PSA AR any day of the week.

 

[Jroc]

Damn y'all are making me want an AR. :banana:

Thanks for the suggestion VictorySong. This is looking real nice to me, but I'm a Colt guy.
Colt AR-15 A2 Government Carbine

I wonder how my tax return will look this year? :read:

BTW off the AK topic but how does a 1x7 twist barrel compare with a 1x9 twist barrel? What are the advantages to both?

 

[VictorySong]

I've been around numerous Arsenals and owned one and have never seen one with a finish that was peeling.

Ergo does suck and they don't have wiz bang features nor do they readily accept wiz bang features but they were. Plenty of Americans have died from AK's in the hands of people with zero training, Americans with higher tech guns, NV, and all that stuff. The sights are wind age adjustable but you have to have the tool. Once it's set it's set. I've made consistent hits on man sized targets (actually smaller) at 600 yards with those crappy sights with howling winds and it was hit after hit on steel.

That said I'd take anything but a Romanian AK over a POS PSA AR any day of the week.

I never said they weren't effective, they are just limited for the reasons you listed. PSA rifles are good to go, IDK who told you different. Check AR15.com for the hundreds of threads about them. They are great guns and are running FN hammer forged barrels for cheaper than Colt's base 6920.


I've never seen a rear sight adjustable for windage on AKs I've owned. I've still got one kicking around. Got a link? I'd like to get the tool for my PSLs.op:

OP: Aimsurplus had O-Paps for $529, out of stock now but, might be worth checking to see if they're expecting anymore in.

 

[kingCOBRAsvt_99]

I never said they weren't effective, they are just limited for the reasons you listed. PSA rifles are good to go, IDK who told you different. Check AR15.com for the hundreds of threads about them. They are great guns and are running FN hammer forged barrels for cheaper than Colt's base 6920.


I've never seen a rear sight adjustable for windage on AKs I've owned. I've still got one kicking around. Got a link? I'd like to get the tool for my PSLs.op:

OP: Aimsurplus had O-Paps for $529, out of stock now but, might be worth checking to see if they're expecting anymore in.

Lol @ psa rifles being "good to go"

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

Damn y'all are making me want an AR. :banana:

Thanks for the suggestion VictorySong. This is looking real nice to me, but I'm a Colt guy.
Colt AR-15 A2 Government Carbine

I wonder how my tax return will look this year? :read:

BTW off the AK topic but how does a 1x7 twist barrel compare with a 1x9 twist barrel? What are the advantages to both?

Colt used to make great AR's but there quality lately has severely dropped. You can get a much better AR for less money than a current colt.

As far as 1:9 vs 1:7 everybody is tied up on 1:7 because it is milspec and few know the actual purpose of the twist rate, a few think it goes by weight which is close but it's actually bullet length. Any knowledgable AR shooter will tell you that you can stabilize pretty much any .224 bullet you can load to mag length with a 1:9. Some may not stabilize and may need a 1:8 but the rounds are either moving slow or somehow you're stuffing a long bullet down in that case which is also reducing powder capacity and velocity adding to the need for a faster twist. The most common (and effective) LR bullets for AR's at mag length would be the 69gr and 77gr sierras and noslers and even those 77's are short enough to stabilize in a 1:9. Sometimes the 75gr hornady won't stabilize as well as the 75 and 77gr Bergers but those aren't something you're likely to shoot in anything but a high end match barrel.

If you want to shoot subsonics suppressed the 1:7 does have the advantage stabilizing the slower rounds. 1:9 will still do it but you'll need to go to a short bullet, something like the flat base 60gr vmax.

I never said they weren't effective, they are just limited for the reasons you listed. PSA rifles are good to go, IDK who told you different. Check AR15.com for the hundreds of threads about them. They are great guns and are running FN hammer forged barrels for cheaper than Colt's base 6920.


I've never seen a rear sight adjustable for windage on AKs I've owned. I've still got one kicking around. Got a link? I'd like to get the tool for my PSLs.op:

OP: Aimsurplus had O-Paps for $529, out of stock now but, might be worth checking to see if they're expecting anymore in.

My experience tells me different regarding PSA. They're just like the other bottom of the barrel manufacturers.

On AK's the rear sight doesn't adjust, it's the front sight. There's a bunch of companies that make front sight tools, thats what you use to zero wind and elevation. The same tools does the sight for the PSL as well. It will look like a little C clamp sort of.

Edit: link http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...-sks-sight-tool-sku100003415-25892-51487.aspx

 

[VictorySong]

On AK's the rear sight doesn't adjust, it's the front sight. There's a bunch of companies that make front sight tools, thats what you use to zero wind and elevation. The same tools does the sight for the PSL as well. It will look like a little C clamp sort of.

Edit: link AK-47/SKS Sight Tool : SKS/AK-47 FRONT SIGHT TOOL | Brownells

Ok, I was thinking "adjustable" like an M14. Nitpicky but, I should have clarified. Thought I was going crazy for a minute because I couldn't recall adjusting an AK rear sight.:lol1:

Odd how PSA falls out of favor, I guess that's one of those trends I talked about. Each one I've come across ran just as well as my KAC.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

AK and all rifles like it adjust at the front sight, it's kinda AK 101. Once zerod via the front sight you use the rear for your come ups.

PSA has never been in favor by people who know a piece of crap from a quality AR. Only by the cheapskates that want an AR to say they have one. Much like the people that buy a hi point or Keltec vs glock/M&P/XD, or a rock island vs a Springfield armory. PSA's are bottom tier AR's. They don't use good quality parts and they don't have good fitment, many times not acceptable.

I run all KAC AR's now and they are in a league from everything else. I've never shot a softer shooting AR in my life. I liked the first one so much I ended up with a total of 3 mod 1's and a LPR. I still have an LMT and a custom built from a Seekins lower as well as a few spare lowers but nothing I've owned has shot like these knights.

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

I can also point you to a whole forum of idiots who swear the NFA and Plum Crazy polymer lowers that repeatedly break where the buffer tube screws in are just as good as any other AR out there too. Just more example of idiots who never shoot their guns yet praise them.

 

[Sn8kebitten]

I'm also in the market for an AK and have no experience with them. What about Norinco AKs and MAK90s? No one has mentioned these yet and they're fairly common in my area. I kinda like the thumbhole stock