Bench racing: Heat Exchanger VS. Pulley/Tune for first mod.

[finally03gt]

Sorry if this is already up somewhere. I saw plenty about each topic individually, but nothing comparing the two. SO, lets assume a guy has just bought a stock 2011 GT500 as a DD in Houston, and he has about $800 for the first mod.
Pulley and tune: http://www.lethalperformance.com/sh...rmance-2010-2012-gt500-boost-upgrade-kit.html
or Heat exchanger: http://www.lethalperformance.com/sh...l-pass-heat-exchanger-w-dual-puller-fans.html

My layman's thoughts. Houston gets a little on the warm side, so what's the point in adding boost, when the car can't handle the heat of stock boost levels? Adding boost and tuning, just to have the ECU cut timing, seems like gaining to turn around and loose. And if the tune doesn't pull timing for heat soak, that would seem to cause detonation. Seems like it would be more efficient to KEEP the power I have before looking for more.

Anyone have real numbers on: 1. HP lost due to heat soak (stock) 2. HP lost due to heat soak (on pulley and tune) - HP gain with pulley and tune is pretty easy to find.

 

[finally03gt]

If it is up somewhere, please post the link, I'd be happy to do the reading.

 

[NightRide]

I would do the pulley/tune package along with a 170 t stat and 3x Reservoir which are cheap cooling upgrades. That will hold you over til the HE can be purchased, keep an eye in the market section as well they go for around 500 used.

 

[finally03gt]

keep an eye in the market section as well they go for around 500 used.

Is that the HE?

 

[GT Premi]

Saying "Killer Chiller" on any car forum seems sacrilege, but you can get one for $650 - $700 and have money left over for a larger intercooler coolant reservoir. That's just another option. Don't shoot the messenger, but I love mine.

 

[finally03gt]

Saying "Killer Chiller" on any car forum seems sacrilege, but you can get one for $650 - $700 and have money left over for a larger intercooler coolant reservoir. That's just another option. Don't shoot the messenger, but I love mine.

Looks interesting, and I'm not scared of the A/C recharge, just concerned about A/C performance in the cabin. Houston + 100 ish summer at 95% humidity + tripple black ride....i need all the A/C i can get.....haha

 

[DOUBLE07GT]

Subscribing!

 

[GT Premi]

Looks interesting, and I'm not scared of the A/C recharge, just concerned about A/C performance in the cabin. Houston + 100 ish summer at 95% humidity + tripple black ride....i need all the A/C i can get.....haha

Trust me, you have nothing to worry about. My AC still gets too cold after driving around for about an hour. You'll have to set your temp one or two degrees below what you usually do to get it to cool down quicker. That's assuming you like your cabin in the 70 - 72 degree range, but the AC has no problems keeping the cabin cool and comfortable, even on the hottest days.

 

[finally03gt]

GT, I'll keep that in the back pocket, good to know. But whether its KC or HE, I'm really interested in what's more beneficial for a DD: scrub the heat or push the boost, assuming it was either/or.

 

[99SSls1]

Pulley/tune is a no brainer for your everyday street car. Atleast for me.

 

[finally03gt]

Pulley/tune is a no brainer for your everyday street car. Atleast for me.

Are you running an upgraded HE? How much is heat soak affecting the pulley/tune.

 

[99SSls1]

Are you running an upgraded HE? How much is heat soak affecting the pulley/tune.

No I just added a fan to it, change the mix to 75% water 25% antifreeze and a can of royal purple. I installed a 170 thermostat and my engine coolant temp peaks are under 185 on wot runs. Before the 170 and the fan I could notice it was down on power some. The tune will help with this but I would add the thermostat at the same time. I would do it the same if I had to do it again.

 

[jaiasmit]

I can't speak from experience for either mod, but I can say that I do agree with your logic that it makes more sense to be able to use the power you already have instead of trying to find more. That's why I opted for better tires and suspension mods before adding more power. Doesn't help much to make power if you can't plant it. Same for adding more power and then having the ECU rob it away to keep you from grenading your engine. I'd say keep that puppy cool first and you won't regret it later. That's what I plan on doing.

Next mod for me is 3X reservoir. Then dual fan HE before I do any power mods.

 

[finally03gt]

99ss:
Good to know. I think you are in the heat exchanger thread I revived as well....

 

[barspen]

Cooling first. Living in Phoenix and using my GT500 as a DD, I had the same issue with throwing timing very quickly. At the track, the car just didn't want to run after the 2nd session, which was very frustrating. The upgraded HE with fans now keeps thing cool as soon as the intercooler pump turns on. I baselined dyno'ed my car after this mod so I can tell how much each power mods really adds to the HP\TQ value, verse wondering if timing is thrown. Cooling and suspension seems to be weak points on these cars, so my strategy is to upgrade those and then add power.

 

[lkempf]

I went with the HE first. Like it was said before, you might as well make the most of the abundant power you already have before adding more. Especially living in a warm climate you do. If you plan on adding boost later you will already have the cooling issues taken care of.

 

[finally03gt]

Starting to see a trend toward cooling, but I'm also liking 99ssls1's added fan. Just to be honest, I reached pretty far on the budget just to get into the car, so not a lot of mod money to work with. What would be the maximum downstream AIT before the ECU pulled. I've read 100°? Anyone know if the ECU gradually pulls timing, or if it just says "hey, you crossed XXX°, i'm cutting you off"
Basically I'm not in the position to go for max performance now, just trying to help the car out a little and get bang for the buck, so I have to expect some compromise.

 

[GT Premi]

GT, I'll keep that in the back pocket, good to know. But whether its KC or HE, I'm really interested in what's more beneficial for a DD: scrub the heat or push the boost, assuming it was either/or.

Easy. Scrub heat. A pulley and tune aren't going to do you much good when all you're doing is building up heat even faster, which means you're heat soaking even faster. You'll want to go with cooling first. And you'll want to get more cooling than you need. That way you'll be ready for future heat-generating mods. To echo bars above, I had mine dyno'd after I installed my Whipple. After heat soak, power was down into the 610s at the wheels. They iced the blower then did a hero run and it came up to 690 at the wheels. So I'm going to estimate that with my Killer Chiller, Super Cobra Jet oval throttle body and VMP tune that were all added much later, I'm probably pushing near 700HP at the wheels. (Might actually be right at 700 including the carbon fiber driveshaft. And if I ever get my electric water pump installed, it might just tip me over 700 at the wheels. I'm also going to be shaving off somewhere around 40 pounds of unsprung, rotational mass today when I get my new wheels installed, so that's definitely going to help free up some power.)

To answer your other question, I've also heard that the ECU cuts timing at 100*, and I'm inclined to believe it. I can notice a marked difference in throttle response from initial engine start to about a minute of idling. It's crazy.

 

[Imatk]

I'd go with the heat exchanger first.

With a pulley and tune you'll get maybe one or two good pulls before timing starts being pulled (maybe not even two)

So you'll be down on power even though you have a smaller pulley.

Just MHO though

 

[Tight Lines]

My mod order.

Heating
suspension
Power