Bench press advantage, long vs short arms?

[Jack Burton]

Never seen anyone that 10 on decline = 1 or 2 on flat. That sounds a little ridiculous.






315 for 15 on incline... how tall are you/how much you weigh, how much you lift on flat?

Haven't lifted in a while do to work and some injuries.

At the time I was doing that for sets I was usually around 220lbs and 5'6". So, I'm one of those short guys. But, I've always been a bit freaky on push movements. Hell, I used to rep the 120lb bells on shoulder press. An ex bodybuilder I used to train with used to get pissed that I wouldn't pursue bodybuilding seriously. I suck at pull type movements. Even though my arms were over 20", I sucked at curling. Was like that across the board. Anything pressing or pushing I would kill at and anything that was pulling not nearly as good. Used to piss me off to no end.


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[Blown_By_You]

This is the simplest and best answer.

I've been working out for decades and have always noticed that the shorter arm / leg guys always have a much easier time lifting. They're not moving the weight as far.

Its not due to distance.. its due to LEVERAGE. The upper arm from shoulder to elbow is the lever.. forearm is vertical so that part is basically static

 

[ViciousJay]

the road less traveled

 

[Blown 89]

Lift a 5 lb weight and then tie to to the end of a stick and lift it. That should answer your questions.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Jesus christ obviously no one in here lifts..

Guys with short arms always bench more than you would expect.. period.

Guys who have longer arms, have LESS mechanical advantage, and require more strength to lift the same weight...

This pretty much sums it up.. But some people in here actually lift.

 

[hb712]

Its not due to distance.. its due to LEVERAGE. The upper arm from shoulder to elbow is the lever.. forearm is vertical so that part is basically static

There is an element of distance in the equation. Moving weight a greater distance will, in most cases, take longer. By contracting your muscles longer, you're expending a greater amount of energy. The more energy expended during the lift, the less likely you will be able to do additional reps or weight.

 

[WireEater]

Lift a 5 lb weight and then tie to to the end of a stick and lift it. That should answer your questions.

This is absolutely retarded.

 

[motoman991]

Force would remain the same if you're talking F=MA?? So shorter arms require less force doesn't make any sense, assuming the same mass! It would create the same amount of force but require less torque in your equation due to distance traveled.

Obviously the force is the same Einstein. Gravity is relatively the same no matter where you are on earth. Gravity is acceleration if you must know.

Your arms rotate when pushing, that's why this is about torque. How much torque can the lifter produce? Simple math time for all the idiots.

This is an example. Lifter A has an arm length of .75ft and lifter B has an arm length of 1ft. We will say they are both lifting 200lbs.

Torque = force x distance

lifter A
Torque = 200lb x .75ft
Torque = 150lb ft

lifter B
Torque = 200lb x 1ft
Torque = 200lb ft

 

[zPipes]

If he wanted to get into a physics debate, to see who was doing more work, here are some formulas.

Force = mass x acceleration, which is only part of whats going on,

Lets look at the equation for work -

Work = force x distance.

Therefore, if you wanted to know who is doing more work, you assume the force is the same. i.e. you both used the same weight, and benched it at the same speed(which should be done anyhow, throwing the bar up faster than someone else means dick, it even means you dont know how to properly bench)

Then you use that force to determine work done. With both of you applying equal force, then it comes down to force x distance, therefore distance being the focal point to see who is doing more work, which would be the longer armmed fellow.

Now, if he isn't educated, he will say this is bullshit, but how can you deny physics?

If he is, he will say that because he is throwing the bar up faster, that his force on the bar is higher, therefore it would change the amount of work done for him. And then the only way to figure who is doing more work.. is to actually calculate the force each of you are putting on the bar using above equation, then using that figure to see whos doing more work, using above equation.

All in all, longer arms usually do more work.

 

[VerySneaky]

It really is simply work = force x distance...

Nothing else is required to discern that the further you move the weight in opposition to gravity the more work you are doing THUS why shorter arms is advantageous.

Regarding the force involved, both a short and long armed person must apply the same amount of force to move the same amount of weight (this should be extremely obvious since weight....POUNDS is a unit of force) however the longer arms must move the weights further with that force thus more work. More work means more energy...

Therefore, to complete the bench press motion, the individual with shorter arms and thus a smaller distance to move the same amount of weights will have performed less work and expended less energy.

This.

Its not due to distance.. its due to LEVERAGE. The upper arm from shoulder to elbow is the lever.. forearm is vertical so that part is basically static

Almost. That is a very basic understanding. The forearm is colinear with the direction of the force, so it doesn't see the torque, but your forearm affects the lift by way of mechanical "work".

As a mechanical engineer that powerlifted in highschool I'll highlight some maths.

Let's take the following free body diagram, (it's colored green, because Hulk):

We can assume the following:
Left and right arm provide equal lifting strength, so the forces are equal. FR=FL.
H is the distance from the lifter's chest to the bar at the starting position (just taken it from the rack).
D is the length between the elbow and shoulder, this also assumes that your hands are positioned so your forearms are perpindicular to the bar. Widening your "stance" will change your load.
FG is the force of gravity, or weight, that must be overcome is centered on the bar, in this case 400lbf, or 200lbf per arm.

We know the following equations from the work-energy theorem:
Work is the product of work and distance or torque and angular velocity, or W=F*d, also W=T*(angle if perpendicular to F).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_(physics)

To complete a rep, you are required to do greater than 200*H ft-lbf of kinetic energy, or work. Considering a midget, H will be less than that of someone that is 6'-6", obviously. Therefor, less energy is spent to complete one rep.
To quantify, if the bar only has to travel 18" vice 24-30", it'll be 600ft-lbf for said midget, or 1000ft-lbf.

Torque also comes into play when you're thinking of strength. The length of your humerus (D) is your lever arm. Force is multiplied by this distance to create torque on your shoulder that your pecs, delts, etc. will have to overcome.

 

[PSUCOBRA96]

short arms. All my buddies who are shorter have to travel a much shorter distance and can pack more muscle in a shorter package. I prefer being taller though. I also feel like weight plays a big factor as well, but that is outside of this discussion.

 

[MachME]

Anyone the lifts knows long arms suck at pressing and I think it has been proven in here. I also think the barbell bench press is just a terrible workout for long arm guys to target their chest with too, but hey in the big gyms, every day is upper body day(bench press and curls all day baby).

 

[Jack Burton]

Coleman, Cutler, Warren, etc... Impressive, no doubt, but they can't compare to the ton of videos circulating out there of those 6'6" monsters crushing them on bench...wait, wut????


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[Jack Burton]

Coleman, Cutler, Warren, etc... Impressive, no doubt, but they can't compare to the ton of videos circulating out there of those 6'6" monsters crushing them on bench...wait, wut????


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Now, to make a disclaimer. I cited some of the best. All of which aren't tall guys.

To observe the strength portion, all you have to do is visit local gyms. Hell, I remember when I was younger smoking guys on juice that were 6'4" and 240. Taller, bigger, and more vascular than me. They looked amazing, but I would bury them all day long on any push/press exercise. Actually, it was pretty embarassing for them.

But, let's get down to the truth. Nobody really gives a crap how strong you are (except for you, maybe), but rather how strong you look. You could be a 350lb max bench, but if you look like a 450-500lbs max people will jump all over it. It's all about perception.

 

[Bass]

the only time this would make a difference is if the two were doing a rep contest. longer arms would have to travel further to complete the rep, but they are both lifting identical amounts of weight

 

[Bass]

SO true LMAO

Anyone the lifts knows long arms suck at pressing and I think it has been proven in here. I also think the barbell bench press is just a terrible workout for long arm guys to target their chest with too, but hey in the big gyms, every day is upper body day(bench press and curls all day baby).

 

[quad]

Coleman, Cutler, Warren, etc... Impressive, no doubt, but they can't compare to the ton of videos circulating out there of those 6'6" monsters crushing them on bench...wait, wut????


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Can you name a few 6'-6" 500-600 lbs benchers? Seems like the strongest benchers (world record caliber) are under 6'-6".

 

[Jack Burton]

Can you name a few 6'-6" 500-600 lbs benchers? Seems like the strongest benchers (world record caliber) are under 6'-6".

Did you read the "wait wut" part of my comment. It was worded that way for obvious sarcasm. ;-)

 

[quad]

Never seen anyone that 10 on decline = 1 or 2 on flat. That sounds a little ridiculous.

It is. My shoulders really come into play with flat benches (bodybuilder type)and I had to quit that all together. I do still perform flat benches but then it is power lifting style with my elbows tucked into the sides and lats pressed into the bench. Much more comfortable but does not involve the pecs much.

Yet put me on a decline and I can press a bit more without discomfort and feel it better in my pecs. The bar travels a lot shorter distance with the declines than flat bench - hence the higher reps.

 

[TheCPE]

Its not due to distance.. its due to LEVERAGE. The upper arm from shoulder to elbow is the lever.. forearm is vertical so that part is basically static

:dw:

The distance the bar is being moved absolutely 100% determines the amount of work and thus the effort (energy) required to complete the bench press.