Are the extra CIs worth in Boosted Applications?

[droptopsnake01]

Its call ENGINE EFFCIENCY. The numbers you see there, are taking by utilizing 85% engine volumetric efficiency which our Modular motors can easily surpass with ease.

On my motors I have seen 100+ load while datalogging. This is equivalent of volumetric efficiency and you can "only" surpass 100% load with a FI motor....well I do it NA for example. So, yes I agree you could have matched that, but it was due to volumetric efficiency, just think about it in a 322 then? Still be out powered.

The point is not 284 or 322, the thing is that the power band will be hugely fatter all across the power band. HP and TQ production will be lots fatter down low, mid range and top end. So, the car will be lots faster with less RPM, Boost, timing, etc.

So, you say you mae 937RWHP, lets see what it takes the 284 to make 100HP more....Yes, you could crack up the boost or RPM (if you got enough turbo) but lest see how much it takes:

A tad over 8500RPMs @ 25 PSI

Or

7500RPMs@ 29 PSI

Those 2 ways you could utilize to make an extra 100 HP on 284CIs.






Exactly. :beer:

I agree with you, im just being me .

Im know and understand what you are saying. And trust me, I WISH I had another 40-50 cubes in my motor. But you gotta stop somewhere ya know? And I just dont think that its worth it.

I think a couple of people on here have hit it right on the nose (naz, olgreydog7) and some people might not even understand but until you own, and try to drive a car that just CAN NOT hook under 90mph on the street you will understand why I say whats the point in the extra power that those cubes will give you.

If I had the money and the want I would have a TT viper with 550+ cubes and twin 78mm turbos for a street car. But I wake up to reality every morning :bash:

All in all I think I did the best build with me. And Im pretty stoked at the power my car made with what it has.

Do I wish I had 50 more cubes? YES
Do I wish I had more power? YES
Do I want my car to look better? YES
DO I want another set of wheels? YES

You're always gonna want more, you have to be happy and set a medium.

Also while where on here for debate.

How much more would a 322+ ci motor be than a 281 ci motor? And to keep it apples to apples let apply all same parts (CP pistons, billet rods for both applications)

 

[droptopsnake01]

In the end what matters is have you satisfied your goal and are you happy! If not what is the point!

I second that :beer:

 

[Nazman]

Drop,

Here is what I posted on page one.

Lets utilize some advertised Modular Performance prices for a short block:

"Stage II" 284CI Short Block
-$3299.00
*You must supply your own block and crank

Big Bore/Stroker
-$5857.00
*Boss5.0 Block Included
*New Crank Included

So, that is a price diference of: $2558.00

By keeping it simple, the 284 is lots cheaper but if you do the right math, its lots closer than you may think.

With the BB/Str you get the Bad to the bone Boss Block and new Crank.

If yor stock motor is running, you could sell the short block as a running unit or sell the Block and Crank and make some cash there. Lets say you could get 500 bucks for the Teskid block/Kellogg Crank, that would bring the additional cost down to ~2058.00 which is still quite hefty.

So, what do you do?

Those are with H-Beam rods and if you dont have a block/crank a new stock block is about 1K and the new crank are about 500-600 bones I belive. So, what do you do?

Also, you and many others have build some very nice set-ups that delivered some huge performance with 284CIs and there is nothing wrong with that. Heck, I had a Turbo 284CI that made some nice power (700+ @ 18PSI) on pump, but I was not happy with the downlow, and mid range power of it...and specially, the trottle response of the motor. Reason #1 I went back NA. I just cant get enough of that!

My car is pretty much finished, other than install motor, paint and new wheels. But its done and as you made a great point..."you have to know when you are done".....Im done with the Albino, but Im going to build one more...the Fox, and that will it. So, I want to be happy with ONE build so I dont do what I did with the Albino.

So, I think that this 322CI, TT, Auto on the Fox will be a very nice set-up. I think that the 322CI will spool some twin 61s wth ease. It may not have the trottle response of a FGT Headed, 322CI @ 13:1CR...but it will be day and night stronger than my old 284 single turbo.

The good thing I see is that I could cruise around @ 10PSI and make some sick power on the street and then crank up the boost at the track.

Naz

 

[Red3]

I agree with you, im just being me .

Also while where on here for debate.

How much more would a 322+ ci motor be than a 281 ci motor? And to keep it apples to apples let apply all same parts (CP pistons, billet rods for both applications)

this is what i wanna see as i am debating a 4.6 build or a 5.4 navi swap. trying to figure out prices for both and how much i could expect numbers wise. i know what a 4.6 on 17lbs will put out but have nothing on a 5.4

 

[olgreydog7]

To throw something else out there....I have no problem ditching a motor out of a GT, but something just irks me about ditching the original motor out of teh Cobra. Paty of me even gets a little skirmish big boreing the stock block too though. I know these are't as rare as say a Boss, but still. Even though I have no intention of ever selling this car, it still bugs me. Part of it is figuring out what to do with the old parts. I just don't have the ability to store the old motor. There aren't that many buyers for high mileage stock short blocks are there?

 

[bsmith782]

I dont think it would be that hard to sell the short block. These motors are pretty durable and im sure there are a few ppl wanting to but a c headed 32v moter into their 96-98 or even a mark VIII.

To throw something else out there....I have no problem ditching a motor out of a GT, but something just irks me about ditching the original motor out of teh Cobra. Paty of me even gets a little skirmish big boreing the stock block too though. I know these are't as rare as say a Boss, but still. Even though I have no intention of ever selling this car, it still bugs me. Part of it is figuring out what to do with the old parts. I just don't have the ability to store the old motor. There aren't that many buyers for high mileage stock short blocks are there?

 

[Nazman]

this is what i wanna see as i am debating a 4.6 build or a 5.4 navi swap. trying to figure out prices for both and how much i could expect numbers wise. i know what a 4.6 on 17lbs will put out but have nothing on a 5.4

5.4L @ 20 PSI

RPM Power
3000 38.64538201 X 10
3100 39.93356141
3200 41.22174081
3300 42.50992021
3400 43.79809961
3500 45.08627901
3600 46.37445841
3700 47.66263781
3800 48.95081721
3900 50.23899661
4000 51.52717601
4100 52.81535541
4200 54.10353481
4300 55.39171421
4400 56.67989361
4500 57.96807301
4600 59.25625241
4700 60.54443181
4800 61.83261121
4900 63.12079061
5000 64.40897001
5100 65.69714941
5200 66.98532881
5300 68.27350821
5400 69.56168761
5500 70.84986701
5600 72.13804642
5700 73.42622582
5800 74.71440522
5900 76.00258462
6000 77.29076402
6100 78.57894342
6200 79.86712282
6300 81.15530222
6400 82.44348162
6500 83.73166102
6600 85.01984042
6700 86.30801982
6800 87.59619922
6900 88.88437862
7000 90.17255802
7100 91.46073742
7200 92.74891682
7300 94.03709622
7400 95.32527562
7500 96.61345502
7600 97.90163442
7700 99.18981382
7800 100.4779932
7900 101.7661726
8000 103.054352
8100 104.3425314
8200 105.6307108
8300 106.9188902
8400 108.2070696
8500 109.495249

Naz

 

[cobraracer46]

The day I rebuild the motor in my Cobra, reliability will be the most important factor and to that end, the best components possible will be used while caring over as many stock parts as possible so in my mind, it's not worth it spend extra money on a stroker kit when I can just simply cut the stock block .020 over, reuse the stock crank and buy some very nice Carillo billet rods for rock solid reliability and custom pistons. Topped off with a supercharger, the engine will make a ton of power while having better durability than a stroker boosted application. The bottom line for me is that I will not sacrifice durability for HP.

 

[Blown02]

i went with big cubes and a really stout efficient motor so I could run less boost.. this way the turbos dont work as hard and the combo isnt a dog when out of boost.. should be fun.

 

[AntiHeightPunk]

Also just wondering what is timing and a/f for these readings?

Also, that "HP @ 25PSI for a 322CI" motor sure does look familiar ;-)(from my 284ci motor w/ a 01 cobra intake, stock t/b, and flowmasters

yeah but dont you have twin 61's? Kinda unfair to compare to a single 76 isnt it? those are all questions because i dont know exactly how to compare single vs twin..:shrug:

 

[olgreydog7]

The day I rebuild the motor in my Cobra, reliability will be the most important factor and to that end, the best components possible will be used while caring over as many stock parts as possible so in my mind, it's not worth it spend extra money on a stroker kit when I can just simply cut the stock block .020 over, reuse the stock crank and buy some very nice Carillo billet rods for rock solid reliability and custom pistons. Topped off with a supercharger, the engine will make a ton of power while having better durability than a stroker boosted application. The bottom line for me is that I will not sacrifice durability for HP.

You think the Boss block and Kellog crank aren't durable? oke: Plus, less boost=more durable. If you are shooting for 600 hp or less, IMO, then you will be fine with the stock block and crank. Either way, you are NOT sacrificing durability by going with the Boss block and Kellog. Just to be fair, there are cranks out there that aren't fully counterbalanced and you could argue that bb/stroke on a stock block isn't the best either.

I dont think it would be that hard to sell the short block. These motors are pretty durable and im sure there are a few ppl wanting to but a c headed 32v moter into their 96-98 or even a mark VIII.

But, I need my heads. I spent a good deal getting Naz to port them and I love them.

i went with big cubes and a really stout efficient motor so I could run less boost.. this way the turbos dont work as hard and the combo isnt a dog when out of boost.. should be fun.

This is what I've been saying. Plus, you will have much more area under the curve power, which equals a much faster car. Faster plus more realiability, yes please!

 

[droptopsnake01]

Drop,

Also, you and many others have build some very nice set-ups that delivered some huge performance with 284CIs and there is nothing wrong with that. Heck, I had a Turbo 284CI that made some nice power (700+ @ 18PSI) on pump, but I was not happy with the downlow, and mid range power of it...and specially, the trottle response of the motor. Reason #1 I went back NA. I just cant get enough of that!

So, I think that this 322CI, TT, Auto on the Fox will be a very nice set-up. I think that the 322CI will spool some twin 61s wth ease. It may not have the trottle response of a FGT Headed, 322CI @ 13:1CR...but it will be day and night stronger than my old 284 single turbo.

Naz

I think you will be suprised with those twins in the fox. Those small lil bitches do NOT lag like a bigger single would. For example my car makes over 900rwtq at 4k rpms. Trust me it does not lack downlow and esp midrange! Not to mention you will have 40 more cubes.

 

[Nazman]

I think you will be suprised with those twins in the fox. Those small lil bitches do NOT lag like a bigger single would. For example my car makes over 900rwtq at 4k rpms. Trust me it does not lack downlow and esp midrange! Not to mention you will have 40 more cubes.

What size turbo and AR you run, Drop?

Naz

 

[droptopsnake01]

What size turbo and AR you run, Drop?

Naz

I have a stock twin 57 kit. Honestly I do not know the AR though.

It does start to loose breath uptop but I knew that would happen with them being so small they can only support so much.

 

[Nazman]

I have a stock twin 57 kit. Honestly I do not know the AR though.

It does start to loose breath uptop but I knew that would happen with them being so small they can only support so much.

Man, those 57s are workhorses! I seen some very, very impresive power and performance off those suckers!

Yeah, 61s will be just the right balance! They should deliver some huge performance!

Im very excited about it!

Naz

 

[droptopsnake01]

Man, those 57s are workhorses! I seen some very, very impresive power and performance off those suckers!

Yeah, 61s will be just the right balance! They should deliver some huge performance!

Im very excited about it!

Naz

Yea they deff get the job done. During this whole build I was think about spending more money on a sullivan, throttle body and some other stuff but I actually researched and decided that my 01 intake would work just fine.

W/ a sullivan it would make more power but loose tq, also It would spool around 200rpms later.

W/ a 01 cobra intake it will make more tq and less power and spool a lil faster.

Either way I decided not to go w/ a sullivan and not to upgrade to 61's ( I didnt want to lack spool time) and ill be damn if it wont the best decision I have made.

This bitch is just retarted, I cant keep the tires from spinning. The turbos come in like a big dog nitrous car :rockon:

You just wait son. A 322ci w/ some bomb ass heads and auto and twin 61's will be one nasty bitch. There will be NO lag time trust me son.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

Extra Cubes is always a good thing. You can't argue with the extra torque down low.

 

[Red3]

5.4L @ 20 PSI

RPM Power
3000 38.64538201 X 10
3100 39.93356141
3200 41.22174081
3300 42.50992021
3400 43.79809961
3500 45.08627901
3600 46.37445841
3700 47.66263781
3800 48.95081721
3900 50.23899661
4000 51.52717601
4100 52.81535541
4200 54.10353481
4300 55.39171421
4400 56.67989361
4500 57.96807301
4600 59.25625241
4700 60.54443181
4800 61.83261121
4900 63.12079061
5000 64.40897001
5100 65.69714941
5200 66.98532881
5300 68.27350821
5400 69.56168761
5500 70.84986701
5600 72.13804642
5700 73.42622582
5800 74.71440522
5900 76.00258462
6000 77.29076402
6100 78.57894342
6200 79.86712282
6300 81.15530222
6400 82.44348162
6500 83.73166102
6600 85.01984042
6700 86.30801982
6800 87.59619922
6900 88.88437862
7000 90.17255802
7100 91.46073742
7200 92.74891682
7300 94.03709622
7400 95.32527562
7500 96.61345502
7600 97.90163442
7700 99.18981382
7800 100.4779932
7900 101.7661726
8000 103.054352
8100 104.3425314
8200 105.6307108
8300 106.9188902
8400 108.2070696
8500 109.495249

Naz

yea, this is with a turbo tho. i would be running an eaton.

 

[na svt]

W/ a sullivan it would make more power but loose tq, also It would spool around 200rpms later.

W/ a 01 cobra intake it will make more tq and less power and spool a lil faster.

There will be some numbers for comparison since I'll be putting a ported Mach intake on a car that currently has a Sullivan and twin 61s.

 

[droptopsnake01]

There will be some numbers for comparison since I'll be putting a ported Mach intake on a car that currently has a Sullivan and twin 61s.

Nice!

Why are the getting rid of the sullivan?