Anatomy of a PSR reconstructed

[mrmustangman357]

As a mechanical engineering student about to graduate, I can assure you that there are some bright apples in the right places. Tuning the runner length is difficult to do by CFD software since it is unsteady state flow, so tuning by OEMs i'm sure is dont by trial and error. camshaft's dictate runner length and plenum volume. what gmsux is doing is using the bellmouths so there is a low flow loss around the entry. in addition, the shorter runners take advantage of the heimholz resonance condition that help get more air to the combustion chamber. The tuning of the runner lets this be known. Were the OEMs right with runner length? THE PSR has been known to show good gains.

plenum volume - now thats a different story. . .

 

[PCPRO]

As a mechanical engineering student about to graduate, I can assure you that there are some bright apples in the right places. Tuning the runner length is difficult to do by CFD software since it is unsteady state flow, so tuning by OEMs i'm sure is dont by trial and error. camshaft's dictate runner length and plenum volume. what gmsux is doing is using the bellmouths so there is a low flow loss around the entry. in addition, the shorter runners take advantage of the heimholz resonance condition that help get more air to the combustion chamber. The tuning of the runner lets this be known. Were the OEMs right with runner length? THE PSR has been known to show good gains.

plenum volume - now thats a different story. . .

I'm sure there are some bright apples as far as mechanical engineers. I'm just stating my personal experiences, that I haven't met many. Just because someone holds a degree, it doesn't neccesarily make them smarter than someone who doesn't.
Case in point, my brother who is 10 years my junior graduated college and has a buisness degree. We recently had an argument, with him saying he was smarter tham me because he's been to college and I've only been to vocational school. We ended up taking an IQ test which I outscored him on by 7 points. I told him "Hell, if I went to college too....just imagine how bad I would beat you!" . It really pisses him off :banana:

 

[olgreydog7]

This is just my opinion; I've worked in a automotive factory for 23 years as a machinist/welder/mechanic & the VAST majority of engineers that I've had the pleasure of working with over the years, are complete morons that couldn't twist 2 coathangers together without detailed instruction. I love proving them wrong on mechanical problems! I had to teach 1 engineer how to read a dial indicator. I had another one ask me to teach him the difference between a short & deep wall socket......lol. This guy holds a degree in mechanical engineering:shrug: I think he must have got it from a box of Kracker Jacks!

Naz wasn't/isn't a machinist by trade either. I do have two engineering degrees and programs can vary drastically from school to school. Some require shop time others don't. There is a reason things are DESIGNED by engineers and BUILT by technicians. They both need each other. A product built by one will never be as good as a product built by both.

Agreed. Even if the size of the weld had been spec'd out by an over educated moron aka engineer it still wouldve failed due to lack of fusion to the base metal.

No, but an engineer or a qualified machinist would know that that bottom plate was too thin.

 

[99COBRA2881]

I agree it does look too thin, thinner than what I wouldve chosen had I been doing the work. In saying that, where did the initial plate fail? The plate did not fail the welds failed. They look like MIG welds and sloppy ones at that, a TIG welder that knows his trade could've avoided this whole situation.

I'm glad the OP has taken the time to take pictures and show us his work so my hats off to him for doing some well thought out improvements to the PSR.

 

[olgreydog7]

My best guess from reading people's posts about intakes that failed is that the thin plate hit a harmonic and started vibrating rapidly, which explains the howling noise that some describe. The weld is much more brittle and hard, plus it likely to have some imperfections, even with an experienced welder, so the cracks likely propagated from those imperfections. At one time he was having them TiG welded, but I have no idea what the broken intakes have. I still think that over time a TiG weld would have cracked if the bottom plate was indeed vibrating rapidly. Something would have let go anyway, even if it was just from fatigue stress.

 

[turbo2300]

There is a reason things are DESIGNED by engineers and BUILT by technicians. They both need each other. A product built by one will never be as good as a product built by both.

theres been a few cars i have worked on that are so poorly designed or whatever that i really wonder wtf they were thinking

 

[olgreydog7]

theres been a few cars i have worked on that are so poorly designed or whatever that i really wonder wtf they were thinking

That is most likely a factor of cost, incompatibilities with the designer(packaging), and the fact that more than one engineer is involved and they don't always talk. It is super easy to change the oil filter when the motor is on the stand, it's that damn k member that gets in the way, but you can't have more space because the hood would have to have an ugly bulge and a tubular k member is too costly to make. Make sense?

 

[gmsux]

Clearly, cost is a major constraint in auto design. The engineers may have great ideas but they will place the cost of the vehicle outside the range of feasibility.

I will have the intake back pretty soon to show pics of the welding. Have made some headway on the 8.5 PSR too and the engine is on it's way to MP!

 

[b dub]

I respect the New Edge guy's respect for him, and his car was awesome, but I swear I never got a good "vibe" from him.

Something about the man not being able to type properly just throws me off. We're talking thousands of dollars here for this work. But I wouldn't be surprised if I talked to him and I changed my mind.


To the op, thank you for the pics. I just bought a mach1 intake and I've been itching to make a shortrunner.

 

[gmsux]

This was the point of the post, glad it could help you.

To the op, thank you for the pics. I just bought a mach1 intake and I've been itching to make a shortrunner.

 

[99riocobra]

This is just my opinion; I've worked in a automotive factory for 23 years as a machinist/welder/mechanic & the VAST majority of engineers that I've had the pleasure of working with over the years, are complete morons that couldn't twist 2 coathangers together without detailed instruction. I love proving them wrong on mechanical problems! I had to teach 1 engineer how to read a dial indicator. I had another one ask me to teach him the difference between a short & deep wall socket......lol. This guy holds a degree in mechanical engineering:shrug: I think he must have got it from a box of Kracker Jacks!

while i partially agree with your statement, i'll bet you don't know half the stuff this guy new about machine design and dynamics. just like olgreydog7 was saying, there's a reason a designer and builder are two different people. along with creating more jobs lol. i'm a mech engineer, and work on cars on the side, everyone has different strengths...

 

[na svt]

Wow, this thread took a heck of a turn.

First, engineers don't need to know tools or even how to use them as that isn't what they are concerned with. They design the parts and someone comes up with a way to make them. It's no different where I work, we do jet engnie research and development and most of my co-workers (also engineers) here can't change their plugs, but yet they can design turbine engines that make more power, are more efficient and are much more reliable that those developed just 5 years ago. Me, well I was a jet engine mechanic for 20 years and have been on the development side for 7...it's a totally different world.

 

[PCPRO]

while i partially agree with your statement, i'll bet you don't know half the stuff this guy new about machine design and dynamics. just like olgreydog7 was saying, there's a reason a designer and builder are two different people. along with creating more jobs lol. i'm a mech engineer, and work on cars on the side, everyone has different strengths...

Actually, I'm usually called on to make machine & design changes work, because the engineer's design doesn't work the way it's supposed to, or actually slows production at our facility. Like the example I gave earlier of a mechanical engineer who doesn't know the difference in a short wall and deep wall socket....something is wrong with that!
Just this week we had a new electrical engineer ask one of our electricians to help him with a blueprint. The engineer didn't know what the initials n.c. and n.o. stood for. Duh.....normally closed and normally open! That is basic electrical stuff.
I've seen literally hundreds of engineers join our company and then be fired a short time later simply because they can't contribute anything to help production.
Again, experiences may vary, but this has been mine.

 

[99riocobra]

well that's great you're knowledgable in such a wide variety of things. i think you're looking at this wrong though...saying that he should know the difference of a short and deep wall socket. i will guarantee you that was never covered in any classes during my entire college career. however, i think where there is a problem would be more like a not so mechanically inclined father or something. so yes it’s most definitely sad, but shouldn’t be expected to be common knowledge. also, believe it or not there’s about 80 billion types of engineering, and once again nc and no is not covered in mech engineering all the time(it wasn’t for me). you’ll have one, maybe two, electrical classes and they are super basic circuits. now sure I know what that is too from car stuff, and I also work at an electrical engineering company lol, but if someone doesn’t have a whole lot of experience in the “real world” and only knows what they learned in school then they probably won’t know. you can’t be mad at someone for not knowing something like that, everyone had to learn what they know somehow. what you learn and when you learn it varies for everyone…

with all that said, it does kind of suck that there’s not some sort of standardization for engineers to pass as far as good mechanical and tool knowledge, or wiring and connector types, etc…that would help bridge the gap and probably save a lot of time and money for a company.

 

[PCPRO]

I am knowlegeable in a wide variety of things. I went to vocational school & successfully completed auto mechanics, mechanical maintenance, millwrights, machine shop, welding, precison gauging, blueprint reading, programmable logic controllers, dc fundamentals, and power fluids. These classes were ok to help me get my foot in the door & get a good paying job.
However most of what I know was not learned from vocational school; it was learned from working & listening to the old timers who were doing it before me, and from on the job experience.
Another example: I recently watched 2 engineers fumble around for 3 weeks trying to speed a hydraulic press conveyor system from 2300 IPM to 2800 IPM in order to run a new part that we had won the contract on. After 3 weeks they reported to the plant manager that with the current software and plc's that 2800 IPM is not possible without investing a lot of money to make major upgrades. The plant manager came to me and asked if I had any ideas. I went over and looked at the problem, pulled out the calulator, punched in some numbers, and quickly came up with a different gear ratio for this conveyor. I installed the new sprockets and had them running at the new required speed in about an hour. The plant manager was amazed that I made this so simple and the college boys couldn't figure it out. I got a promotion and raise from it.
We do have 1 engineer who has done pretty well. He designs something and then shows his plans to me, or one of the other mechanics, as well as the line operators, and ask for us to critique the design and look for any potential problems. Once this is done, then he has the design implemented. Thus far he's had no problems with anything.
BTW...the engineer who didn't know what no & nc stood for was an electrical engineer, not mechanical.

 

[99riocobra]

cool

 

[E. Green Cobra]

I once did 93 pushups in a minute. The guy who won the PT award for our class only did 60ish. Just a stupid award anyways. :shrug:

 

[99riocobra]

yes, but do you know what a deep well socket is? cause if you don't then you obviously don't know anything... :nonono:

 

[olgreydog7]

I had graduate level education in electrical engineering, but neve knew no/nc until I was on the production/operational side. It is just not something the engineer needs to concern himself with. The tech absolutly needs to know, or he will shick the crap out of himself when he grabs a hot wire. Doesn't happen too often with blueprints. Does a deep wall socket add to the efficiency of the machine? Nope, and I promise you that is what a mech eng is concerned with, power output per unit input. It is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich really. Both make a decent sandwich by themselves, but together it is a great sandwich. It sounds to me like a guy with a degree acted like he was somehow superior to you because he had a BS and you don't. That guy was an ass, and probably not a good engineer, no matter how smart he actually is, because the tech that actually work with the crap he designs won't help him.

Back to the real topic. Any updates?

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

good god this thread is totally derailed.. I wanted I PSR for my car and opened this thread in hopes of figuring it out.. all you guys give it a break on the accomplishments and schools that you've gone to. seriously.. OP you're doing a great job but I suggest starting a new thread.. Everyone who is talking about schools and shit I understand your e-dick is huge but seriously this is just rediculous